During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@Riley1s Cool I'd hear out Morgause.
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Professor Gigachad
Man another AlternateHistory.com keeper I think that makes 38 now.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Mar 19th 2021 at 1:56:11 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Going to also echo that no one qualifies in Wandavision. Agatha being voted as a MB on the other thread now already puts any possible effortpost into hot water because there is a limit on how despicable MBs can be. While there have been CM MBs, let's go over what Agatha does. She causes some dirty magic tricks that screw with the Westview Simulation and threatens Wanda's illusory(at least that's what it seems since The Stinger hints that they may be real)children—which dosen't even dent heinousness standard for the series: which is admittedly set by Wanda herself in creating the fake reality and trapping everyone in a living nightmare, albeit unwittingly and as a result of trauma, and obviously dosen't dent the MCU's heinousness standard. Added to the fact that she didn't seem happy at draining her mother's life force and kept her necklace and you've got yourself a non-qualifier on every level. Also her arc dosen't seem to be over and the way they sent her off does open the door of her perhaps gradually mellowing into the role she had in the comics as Wanda's mentor.
Hayward ends being a Hate Sink and shoots Wanda's children and Monica, but that dosen't even dent the MCU's HS and he comes off a bit as a WIE since he recreated vision for humanity to defend itself.
Edited by xie323 on Mar 19th 2021 at 2:01:38 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Euron. At least he's not a tonally-dissonant Poor Man's Substitute for Jack Sparrow like his show counterpart.
Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Mar 19th 2021 at 2:16:34 AM
to Euron Greyjoy.
Euron (did we say the canon version wasn'te heinous enough)
Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 19th 2021 at 2:26:43 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Shooting kids isn't bad for a mid-tier villain? Sure, Ego killed all his kids...but Ego's also near the top MCU tier.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Can we not play 20 questions? Watch the show and make up your mind or take a look at the current keepers and figure out what a keeper at her level should be doing.
Showtime!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
His arc has been ongoing for like a fucking decade. Dude'll probably count if/when TWoW comes out though
Edited by Libraryseraph on Mar 19th 2021 at 5:25:04 AM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Goku Black
Haha when winds of winter comes out. Sure.....
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
for Terasawa (who I somehow missed), Steve Jordon and Euron Greyjoy.
Ok, Zenos is out, but what about Zilla from Shadow Warrior? Specifically, I mean the original version, not the remake, as they do give him some good traits in that game.
The Moron
And TV!Euron doesn’t count cause heinousness - all he really does is kill Balon (which is a good thing all things considered) and kill one of Dany’s dragons. Yes to fic!Euron though
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes to Euron. Geez, can't wait when someday his book incarnation will make it.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
And I can't wait until we develop time travel to the past so I can see what keepers there might be in lost films. Neither of us should hold our breath.
@nwo Yes it’s lack of heinousness. Totally. It’s because the man otherwise has no redeeming features.
The show Euron is a total Hate Sink though if that makes you feel any better.
@STARCRUSHER Well he has other stuff too, but it’s a pittance compared to numerous other villains on the show.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 19th 2021 at 3:14:22 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah yes, show!Euron, who would make Ramsey look like a "little kid". ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Goku Black
It's a common joke that they really meant hell look like a little kid because euron is older.
Edited by miraculous on Mar 19th 2021 at 3:23:34 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
If anything, Ramsay made Euron look like the little kid and based on the way the character came off (never read any of the books), yeah I totally believe it.
Euron, regardless of the performance of the actor, is ultimately an embarrassment.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 19th 2021 at 3:25:50 AM
Man, that is quite the irony. Especially since Euron is nowhere near as heinous as Ramsay in the show. And considering Ramsay's rap sheet, that's saying a lot.
But I will give an for fanfic version of Euron.
Fanfic Euron
to Euron
The Emperor of Evil!
Okay, I think this guy is definitely a cut.
- "Norman's Conquest": Spike was a psychotic Blood Knight who, 10,000 years in the past, led a pack of barbarians to attack a peaceful village when the heroic Norman was just a boy. Refusing offers of peace, Spike brutally attacked and killed Norman's unarmed father before attempting to kill Norman himself. Things went wrong and Spike was buried under the snow for the next 10,000 years, but not before gleefully saying he'd find the boy, kill him and eat his heart. In the present, Spike is no less savage and continues his battle with the now-adult Norman until he is defeated.
Honestly, seeing the episode I don't think Spike passes the general heinous standards. Like what does he do?
- Murders the leader of a peaceful tribe while the leader was completely defenseless. The leader also happens to be Norman's father.
- Attempt to kill Norman as a kid, and threaten to eats his heart.
- Pursues Norman years later, later trying to kill his allies too.
- Attempts to kill a bystander.
... Yeah not only does he commit only one murder and several attempt murders (even attempt child murder), he really fails the heinous standards of the show even if its a kids show. His writeup said he attacked a village with his men, yeah no he did but we only see him kill one person and his men barely do anything besides just standing there as Spike attempts to murder Norman and killing his father. We don't see them kill everyone in the village, we don't see them burning down their homes or enslaving them, nothing.
Now let's see our current approved Complete Monsters...
- Skullmaster who destroyed two civilizations in his question for power, one where he condemns the citizens of Atlantis to an And I Must Scream situation, killed an entire tribe onscreen and condemn them to the same fate, attempted to destroy the world twice, brainwashed a child, enslaved a race in the underworld and put them through hard labor, also attempted to murder a child and had traumatized the child protagonist, murders a monk onscreen, murders a multitude of heroes, and killed his minions once he was no longer useful and also killed Virgil even though he promised to let him go all to get a stupid magic hat to be a god.
- Professor Mac Dougal who's only human mind you have even done worse than Spike, performing nasty experiments on werewolves by painfully extracting their blood, upon drinking it she plans to terrify everyone in the highlands by mauling people and killing them.
Yeah, the series has a surprisingly high heinous standard, and Spike barely even passes it in my opinion.
Professor Gigachad
Unless I see some good arguments I am saying, Cut Spike.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Yes to Euron.
Edited by Bullman on Mar 19th 2021 at 3:46:01 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread