During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Reinhard.
Yea to Nagito and Reinhard
Reinhard
Reinard. So that's the third CM fought by Ash.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Baal and Krueger, right?
The Unknown Unknown
Reinard.
Yes to Reinhard.
Reinhard.
Okay I think I found some juicy candidates from this music video for this song "Busy Being' Born".
What's the Work?
"Busy Being' Born" is a song by The Alternate Rock band duo Middle Class Rut.
The Premise of the music video revolves around child kidnapping, forced child labor and a Fight Club for children and the people behind the all of it are this unnamed duo.
Who Are They? What Have They Done?
This unnamed duo consist on a bald man and a cap wearing woman.
They run the child trafficking ring where they kidnap numerous children all over the country, confide said children to live in poor unsanitary conditions filled with rats, and controlling them through metal dog leashes using them as slaves.
They would used these slaves for manual child labor or worse force the children to fight each other to the death, while have spectators spend money watching said death fights. Basically this duo would make tons of money at the expense of the children's suffering.
They aren't afraid to kill the children themselves, as such when they catch one of the children escaping them with the full intent to kill him. Fortunately the child that was with him manages to escape and the music video ends there.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
No backstory is given to the duo on why they kidnap innocent children and have them fight each other to the death, other than to make tons of money of of said fights.
As for redeeming qualities they've never shown any care or affection for the children whatsoever. They don't even care or show any affection for each other one another in any capacity. Their just co-conspirators whose only concerns are to kidnap children, force child labor on them, have them fight to the death, and kill any children who escapes.
So none on both counts
Heinousness
While there are spectators who watch the children death fights, its this unnamed duo organizes them. The duo are the ones who kidnap the numerous innocent children regardless of gender, subject them to live of poor unsanitary conditions for months if not years, arranges them to fight to the death, while sadistically watch themselves, and some escapes they have no problem killing them and kidnap more children.
So yeah they are more than heinous enough to qualify.
Final Verdict
I'd give the unnamed duo a . What about you guys?
edited 16th May '18 4:49:20 PM by G-Editor
How much personality do they have?
One post I want to make as well...
What's the work?
Jackals is a manga by Shinya Murata and Byun-Jin Kim. Welcome to Cicero City, a wretched hive of scum and villainy. Cicero is ruled by the mafia, notably the Italian mob style Gabriella, and the Triad style Tennouren, a more recent upstart. The peace is maintained, such as it were, by a group of powerful mercenaries who sell their blades to the highest bidder...The Jackals. 'Alligator' Nichol, our hero, is a Jackal, the son of the greatest Jackal of all time: Shinigami Roxy. Now, Nichol ends up in a fight with a Gabriella officer and kills him, provoking the wrath of the entire group, while also getting involved with Tennouren.
Now, the leader of Tennouren is Magnificent Bitch Meilang, who initially seems the Big Bad, only for an upstart boss of Gabriella to make a power play...enter...Franco Vampiro, also known as Vampire Franco.
who is Vampire Franco?
Now, in a World of Badass, Franco rather stands out as a Non-Action Big Bad...he's short, chubby, smug to repellent levels and the head of Gabriella's intelligence division, nicknamed The Bat. The leader of Gabriella, Don Salieri, believes Franco is at least loyal because that's where the money is. problem is? Well...Franco's a greedy little bastard and not so willing to share. Nicknaming himself 'Vampire' because he feeds on the lifeblood of the city (that is, money), Franco, a little over halfway, pulls a massive, bloody coup, having Salieri tortured to death by a Jackal named Blood Witch Domino, while also wiping out most of Gabriella, putting into motion a plan he names 'Catastrophe.'
Franco is revealed to have been manipulating things from the start, having Nichol kill the Gabriella boss to lead a complex series of events that provoke a massive gang war with Tennouren, killing a bunch of people throughout the series.
Oh, and one of the main characters, Huya Requiem? Hates Nichol because Nichol killed his father. Turns out years ago, Huya's father, a Jackal, was forced to try to assassinate Shinigami Roxy...Franco organized it, and had a child Huya and his mother held captive with their lives under threat. Using his forces, Franco tries to eliminate Nichol and the other remaining threats...Franco uses Nichol's mother to attempt to kill the others, but they give Roxy more trouble? He simply begins trying to bomb their organization's building and shell the battlefield....and has gotten the army on board to start bombing the city, to wipe out all the gangs heedless of civilian casualties. Unable to resist the urge to gloat? Franco ends up with Nichol and Huya against him, before fleeing to a balloon he'd prepared where he plans to watch the whole city burn from a safe distance. The good guys move to intercept him, but Franco? Reveals he has Nichol's girlfriend Sheryl hostage, with one man who'll murder her...only for Roxy to interfere and save her, taking bullets meant for Sheryl next.
Huya? Then takes his revenge for his part, slicing Franco into tiny pieces.
Mitigating Qualities?
Now, Jackals is a dark world, with gangs, criminals and mercenaries...Franco's closest competition in heinousness is the ruthless Meilang, but she doesn't get close to this level of depravity or nastiness. She does plan on breaking the power of the gangs and forming a new organization in the city, but Franco has the highest body count and attempted count with a sadistic streak a mile wide. He's acknowledged by Salieri, who's pretty much a Noble Demon as irredeemably evil, but so devoted to money that he's trustworthy as long as the cash flows...only to be proven wrong when he underestimated how bad Franco was.
Conclusion?
I'd give Franco Vampiro, AKA Vampire Franco a hearty yes and note I think it's one of the coolest damn names we have.
Sorry Lighty, we posted around the same time, yes there.
Having just watched the music video, "no" to the duo. They have zero established personality and the only time I even notice them standing out from the crowd is when they come to capture an escaping kid. Even if they did have any established personality, what even confirms they're the masterminds behind the operation?
edited 16th May '18 4:58:52 PM by 43110
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Vampire Franco.
I have to admit that it dont sounds so good when you talk spanish and know that Franco is a common name.
Watch me destroying my country
to Vampire Franco.
Well its hard to establish enough personality and characterization in just 4-5 min (which is why music don't have enough candidates to have its own page), but I thought they had enough personality, in that they are greedy sadistic assholes who send children to fight to the death.
Well there goes my first attempt at a music CM EP.
Don't feel bad, pal. They are sure as shit harder to find but they do exist: just keep in mind the usual boxes you'd tick when looking for a CM in another medium and you'll be golden when the opportunity finally does strike.
I've only proposed two and they were from narrative concept albums
Franco. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
the "Busy Being Born" duo.
Yeah, there's a good reason why I stay away from music proposals despite the fact I listen to a lot of good music. The nature of the medium means there's very, very little chance of them getting the sufficient character to keep.
Yes to Reinard and Franco.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Vampire James Franco
Call me... Del Noir...
Reinhard and Franco.
Okay, I'm like 99% sure this was added without permission but I'm going to check before I start screwing around with the entry. On The Three Musketeers, someone split de Winter's entry so they've both got two bullet points and added this second paragraph:
- She also manages to escape from an otherwise foolproof jail by presenting the Duke of Buckingham as one. English protestants already think of him as a degenerate heretic, she makes him out as a sadistic rapist who had her branded so as to discredit any of her accusations.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Not quite as funny as the unapproved Clifford Blossom entry that managed to stretch his two crimes into almost 400 words. That's the kinda shit I can't even get mad at.
edited 16th May '18 6:13:05 PM by 43110
Call me... Del Noir...
Please do, seems like an unnecessary diatribe.
Gentle Laborer
Franco. Editor reminded me of a certain fictional character created by a certain band, which i'm going to propose right now.
What is the setting? Follow Your Instinct is an ARG created by progressive metal band Mindflow. In this game, participants had to catch a meticulous criminal. This man is J.A.C.K., who in turn had a blog describing his mindset and crimes.
Who is J.A.C.K.? J.A.C.K., or simply Jack as we're gonna call him, is a prolific and highly organized Serial Killer. A psychopath since the day he was born, Jack never understood emotions, and only "copied" them to appear like a normal person. At the age of 5, Jack was kidnapped by a serial killer like himself, and kept in a basement for 12 years; Jack theorizes that he had sensed another killer in him. Despite the violence he would hear and witness, Jack praises the man for giving him this kind of upbringing, and for introducing him to the "art of death". Not satified with just watching people suffering, Jack wished to get out, and so he did, by killing this man; not out of anger, but simply because he wanted him to be his "first toy". When he got out of the basement, he actually felt disappointed with the outside world, believing that every person he met was an actor interpreting a character, and that he was more free back at his kidnapper's basement. As an adult, goes on multiple killing sprees to satisfy his need for suffering, always remembering to torture his victims before he murders them, usually women he deems to be weaker than himself.
Although he confesses to never have studied medicine or surgery, Jack claims that he is good at "keeping people alive", even without limbs; on one occasion, Jack abducted a woman, paralyzed her by sticking a knife into her spine, and mutilated her face, leaving a mirror in front of her. Other methods include: Cutting people with a chainsaw or the "Screwdriver Effect" as he calls it, aka penetrating a person's ear with a screwdriver. During the process of dismembering his victims, Jack occasionally keeps some body parts for cannibalistic purposes. To celebrate christmas, Jack cut the phone line of an isolated house and murdered the family inside. When a detective found his "torture room" with a woman inside, Jack subdued him and made him watch the woman getting gutted. Discovering that a "Intelligence and Surveillance Agency" is after him, Jack focused his sadism on members of said agency; abducting a member, copying his data to find more victims, and gagging him before detonating the house with the man inside.
As he murdered a female member of the agency, Jack justified his acts by explaining that they "took the risk". Finding another agent, Jack cut the throat of a random taxi driver and tortured the detective for five days. Getting tired of killing these agents, Jack decided to go to his usual routine of "hunting randomly", starting with a young jogger, and later confessing that he killed so much people that death is becoming boring to him. In his final appearance, Jack ultimately rejected his mask, and accepted that he was an animal following his instinct by killing the first person he saw walking on the streets, monologuing on how he doesn't care if murder is against the law, if people hate him, or if he ends with families, dreams, and futures, realizing that this is who he is until he dies.
Mitigating Factors? He obviously makes fun of the concept of a Freudian Excuse, and the whole "Intelligence and Surveillance" thing is what defines this ARG's plot, but my only issue with him is how hard he tries to sound like a bad person. We know that you're a Card-Carrying Villain but you don't need to brag about it every single time.
Conclusion? What you think?
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Nah, Uber Card-Carrying Villain s are common here.
Let me think a while, ok? Dunno, it seems like that song is just too grimderp for the sake of it.
edited 16th May '18 6:46:23 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my country
Gentle Laborer
Actually the song is a different thing, i'm talking about his blog, or "diary" as he puts it. This one right here, which is a vital part of the ARG.
We have the revelations of Jack's backstory (which at first seemed like a genuine Freudian Excuse until he totally obliterated it) and the actual song Follow Your Instinct actually hides pieces of the puzzle. Like any other ARG, participants also received emails with coordinates and codes for them to solve, and of course they had to explore this blog so they could know who they were dealing with.
edited 16th May '18 7:00:54 PM by TheMadCr0w
Uhhhh... what story does this blog bring beyond some dude torturing/killing people while getting tailed by some organization?
Surprising amount of effort put into something I really don't see as going beyond an edgy serial killer being evil. No.
edited 16th May '18 7:16:59 PM by 43110
