During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Wild Child
I've done some thinking, and I think I'm going to have to vote ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Hobgoblin.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Gonna post a total count of the recent villains:
Nobu: 2 ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
, 5 .
Hobgoblin: 10 (9?) , 6 . We're cutting it a bit close with this one, especially since one or two users changed their votes.
Annis: 6 , 0 .
Hamidou: 6 , 0 .
I didn't do a count on Crooked Man, but from what I've seen, only two or three users voted down and a majority voted up, so he's a go.
Also just about everyone (except ACW and Clown-Face, and maybe DDD) is fine with cutting Vukmir.
edited 2nd Apr '16 12:01:38 PM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
A total has-been.
I don't think Hobgoblin has ever been CM-worthy heinous in any medium, even if he's well over the Moral Event Horizon like in this one. Norman Osborn/Green Goblin sets the bar pretty high.
I think I'm going to have to Hobgoblin after some thought.
edited 2nd Apr '16 11:31:29 AM by Scraggle
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Resources though. Norman's a Corrupt Corporate Executive, and possible member of the Fiction 500.
I think I have been convinced about the arguments against Hobgoblin and will withdraw my proposal. Some characters I am willing to fight for and others I am not and I thought Hobgoblin could have counted, but I didn't think he was an iron clad case.
Hobgoblin is pretty rich too, so I don't think the resource argument helps. Hobgoblin is ruthless, but pragmatic, which means someone Ax-Crazy like Norman will do more pointlessly cruel things.
edited 2nd Apr '16 11:38:09 AM by Overlord
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I think three people (you included) changed their votes, so the total is now 8(?) and 8(?) . Should we scratch Hobgoblin since you're withdrawing him, or wait until a few more votes come in?
edited 2nd Apr '16 11:40:21 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
My heart is not in it anymore, so I would not be that enthusiastic about doing the write up. I would not mind just dropping him. Sorry about that.
to Annis and Hamidou.
Alrighty, I plan on doing a few today....so, first off...that odd one.
From the series, I swear, Afterlife with Archie''
Setting
Its' Archie! The nice town of Riverdale! Except it's gotten way less nice...an accident on the road results in Jughead's beloved dog Hot Dog being hit by a car. In desperation, he brings the dying dog to Sabrina Spellman, whose aunts Hilda and Zelda declare there's nothing that can be done for the poor mutt. Sabrina, however, determined to help (and as usual not really that concerned with potential consequences of misuse of magic), uses a forbidden spell to raise the dead, returning Hot Dog to life...Hot Dog promptly gives Jughead a nasty bite, causing him to fall ill...and soon return as a ravenous zombie who sets off a zombie apocalypse. Sabrina's aunts are furious, and seal Sabrina in the netherworld for a year as punishment...
...this doesn't take...and it turns out that Sabrina's spell didn't work exactly as she intended. Sabrina awakens in an asylum. Everything she's gone through is a delusion meant to cope with the trauma of her own reality, helpful Dr. Lovecraft tells her. Her house burned down, her aunts died, she takes pills to keep her sanity...
Oh you just know this is going somewhere dark...
Who Is He, what's he done?
Dr. Howard Lovecraft, head of our little institute. I'll dispense with the suspense now: he's a 'procurer' for 'them'...the Old Gods, those asleep and sealed for Strange Aeons. Lovecraft found Sabrina in the Witch Limbo and took her from there, giving her the pills to suppress her magic and feeding her lies about the past. Those in the asylum are 'tested,' their memories screwed with by Lovecraft and his associate Dr. Arthur Machen, as they test who are the 'sanest' among them. The luckless inhabitants of the asylum are 'procured' for the Old Ones, given in sacrifice to them and their monstrous servants. One of the Asylum inmates who befriends Sabrina, young Erich Zann, has a method of defense in his music keeping the monsters away. Lovecraft cuts off all his fingers so he can't play and Sabrina hears Erich's terrified screams and pleadings as something takes him in the night.
It's revealed the sacrifices are being used to pave the way: to bring back the Old Gods and turn their attention back to earth Lovecraft initially thought he could control them, but upon realizing the...futility of such an endeavor, he's settled for keeping them happy
See, Sabrina's spell didn't raise the dead exactly...it woke something else. The zombie plague is a side effect of his awakening and 'ravening of delight.' Lovecraft and Machen have Sabrina trussed up at the temple by the sea they've forced the inmates to build, and then offer Sabrina as...
The bride of Cthulhu.
Freudian Excuse?
Dear me, no. Lovecraft and Machen are just cultists aiming to control ancient horrors beyond the ken of man and when that fails, they figure "eh, we might as well be higher ups in the new regime" with "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!" and are working to unleash the Great Old Ones on earth.
Heinous Standard?
Most of the characters are...well...the people we know and love, who are just trying to survive a zombie plague. Veronica is just a bit of an insensitive bitch at times (and she is still superior to Betty Cooper because Betty Cooper in Archie is fucking nuts, ahem.)...the worst of the others are Jason Blossom who has a very twisted attachment to his twin sister Cheryl (having murdered her puppy as a child for her showing it more attention than him, and carrying on an implied incestuous relationship with her that is hinted at being less than consensual on her end), and Sabrina's aunts, Hilda and Zelda who are indicated to be perfectly fine with Sabrina being given to Great Cthulhu and have also enacted a bargain with those of Riverdale in taking three children a generation as sacrifice...but seriously, Lovecraft and Machen here are working on a scale of unleashing the Old Ones on the world, and know the consequences for humanity. At one point Machen coldly says the dead ones in Riverdale are "the lucky ones" compared to what the Old Ones will do to humanity before they offer Sabrina as Cthulhu's bride.
....oh, and yes, they totally look like the real Howard Philip Lovecraft and Arthur Machen.
So, yep, here they are. And I do want to add: this series is played 100 percent, absolutely straight. And it is awesome.
edited 2nd Apr '16 12:51:27 PM by Lightysnake
to Hamidou.
Having been dubious on Hobgoblin from the get-go, I'll change my vote on him to a .
Wild Child
Howard and Arthur.
Dr. Howard Lovecraft
Howard Lovecraft. To what extent is Machen a separate character from him?
I have to say, reading that post made me laugh much much harder than any joke proposal ever has, or likely ever could.
edited 2nd Apr '16 1:12:02 PM by nrjxll
Lovecraft, and Machen if he's being proposed too (the effortpost wasn't 100% clear). Jesus, Archie is hardcore.
I'm serious by the by....someone at Archie comics had this idea of "let's do a horror imprint, guys" and it worked. I should probably note that this does not affect the original Archie comics at all. afterlife is much, much grimmer and darker for obvious reasons. ...I will say that the first gay character of the series, Kevin Keller, is a total badass in the zombie apocalypse, and Archie's no slouch himself
Now if they could only put out more issues in less time...issue 9 is like a year late
Machen could count alongside Lovecraft. They seem more partners than anything as well.
edited 2nd Apr '16 1:23:20 PM by Lightysnake
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Lovecraft, I think, except if he didn't sacrifice people, would he himself be killed by The Old Ones?
He outright sought out the Old Ones. He's a willing collaborator.
Wild Child
- Does anyone have anymore votes to put in here?
- I'll get to Annis' write-up in a bit, but which section of Monster.Fan Works would it go?
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Western Animation, since it's based off Inside Out.
Dr. Howard Lovecraft. Strange take on the Archie universe, but hey. If it works, it works.
edited 2nd Apr '16 1:30:42 PM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Well... I think I'll Lovecraft. Strange is kind of understating it. Although considering what Lovecraft wrote about was weird fiction...
edited 2nd Apr '16 2:12:41 PM by Scraggle
A total has-been.
Lovecraft. Dear God, that guy came from a series with Archie and his friends? This is on Jaques, Professor Perciles, and the Nibiru Entity from Scooby Doo levels of horrifying and bizarre.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Dammit Lovecraft, Evil Is Not a Toy.
Anyway, minor rewrites for Willy Pete and Ninjette's father for Empowered are coming with this week's batch (coming soon!), and I'll do the effortpost for Fleshmaster/dWARf tomorrow, but I talked with Lighty, and we agreed that Deathmonger has to go (SPOILERS FOR VOLUME 9).
AGAIN, MAJOR SPOILERS
FINAL WARNING.
While Deathmonger IS utterly evil, and heinous enough, there's one point where she could probably EASILY kill Emp, but decides not to. She says this is because Manny is fond of Emp, and we have no reason to doubt her. She also says something about fellowship with another female cape or something.
Josee and Jacques were a joke proposal.