Misused: God Is Evil

I think this trope should be limited to just capital G Gods, the Abrahamic God or other Top God stand-ins

Also I think Evil God being a redirect to this is a mistake since I've mostly seen that used for any evil god regardless of what kind of god they are

I think Supreme Diety Is Evil carries the point across.

I think that's a bit much, Top God Is Evil?

If we're limiting it to the Abrahamic God and equivalents, then the current name should be fine. "Top God of a pantheon is evil" is a different thing than a monotheistic god being evil, I think.

Keep the name as is. Those other suggestions sound clunky and awkward.

Do we have enough agreement to move forward? General opinions seem to be:

1. Keep the name as-is.
2. Create an "evil god" trope to split off from Jerkass Gods.
3. Redefine God Is Evil to specifically be about the Abrahamic God and equivalents.

Sounds good to me.

That sounds good as well.

Sounds good to me

Are any of those options mutually exclusive?

I don't think so.

No, we should do all three.

Crowner's hooked.

Is the third option a typo? It says to rename God of Evil, not God Is Evil.

No, it's saying rename TO God of Evil

That may be implied, but not what it says.

Oops. Entry edited. If that affects the crowner significantly, we can hook another one.

Posting this comment to make public that I voted in favor of "Create an "evil god" trope to split off from Jerkass Gods". I didn0t upvote or downvote any of the other options.

Curious, I believe the Redefine option has been in the green yesterday.

It was. I think it had a 4 consensus wise before it got more downvotes.

I feel like Jerkass Gods refer to Gods being jerks but God is Evil refers to the major supreme dieties being revealed to be evil or as a major part of the plot

The thing is, if we all make it an abrahamic god thing, where does the work where (the gods are a pantheon) and some of the major gods turn out to be evil in a reveal? Now you would need a new trope for that. Not all examples of this trope are monotheistic and honestly it seems a little weird? Like we don't have a place for that?? And as a reader I'm interested, do you all prefer for monotheistic work and polytheistic work to be segregated?

One example is I read a work with a multi pantheon where there are maybe 5 major gods, and one of those gods you think is good, is analogous to one of the supreme dieties but is not given that there are multiple gods in the work, but that God is on the tier of the creator gods and the reveal. That God becomes a major antagonist and it's a big part of the work that that God is Evil. And that definitely is not under God is a Jerkass. And I've seen multiple stories like that. If I were looking specifically for works where the supreme diety, or one of them, or a major god of the world is revealed to be or is an antagonist and evil I would be looking at God is Evil for that work. I would not be looking at Jerkass Gods because that's just the standard resting state of Olympian dieties, it's not the plot point of (major god that matters is major antagonist)

Also restricting it like that feels weird; how is it not the same trope just because the work features multiple gods? Is there enough of a difference for it to matter from a reader's point of view? Is the trope already too narrow and we need another?

Just thinking of what's suggested:

- honestly I think the name is fine. If people are using examples wrong we can clarify the description that it has to be a major part of the plot and just continue to throw Jerkass god examples to such a page

- If we narrow it to abrahamic god (monotheistic only) we will need a trope for the plot point of a major diety being evil for polytheistic work. (Major being either a creator god or one of the main major gods in such work). And that probably should be linked. Otherwise we'd be erasing a lot of work unfairly- and if I wanted to read that plot point and dont care about the pantheon I'd be disappointed ;9. While personally I don't see how the concept of poly vs monotheistic pantheon in fiction is so different to constitute different tropes others may think that there is an entirely different dynamic and so I think we could split it.

- 2 works well too, because it's clearer if it's not just the abrahamic god but I think the current name is clear enough too

- if we have examples like (some random god turned bad) and that is different that could be a diff trope offshoot?

Edited by SteakAddictsAnonymous on Sep 30th 2023 at 12:57:34 PM

Alright then, what next? Should the new trope be launched before the example cleanup, or can that be done concurrently?

It may be a moot point now, but I see no reason why "a major god of a panetheon is evil" shouldn't fall under the new "evil god" trope. My reasoning for proposing it be limited to monotheistic gods is because I feel monotheistic gods being evil is qualitatively different from the Top God of a pantheon being evil. A monotheistic god puts all your eggs in one basket: the god must contain all the relevant values of a culture that would otherwise be spread out in a polytheistic faith. A monotheistic god is therefore inextricably tied to the religion itself in a way even a major polytheistic god is not. To criticize Vishnu is not necessarily to criticize Hinduism; but to criticize YHVH almost certainly implies a criticism of the Abrahamic faith itself, because there is no Abrahamic religion without YHVH.

Maybe there should be a trope specifically for gods who are portrayed differently from their canonical portrayals? Because I feel like it does hit different to portray Zeus as evil when even the ancient Greeks agreed with that, vs. YHVH who modern Christianity asserts is the source of all Good. Or is that just Alternative Character Interpretation?

Edited by FoolsEditAccount on Sep 30th 2023 at 6:31:50 AM

I feel that God Is Evil is a good name.

Supreme Diety Is Evil , and Top God Is Evil, while more specific, are a little heavy on the tongue.

Evil God is on the other hand less specefic, and the examples will overlap with God of Evil and Jerkass Gods.

...........

In my opinion, the solution is to specify in the description of God Is Evil, to make it clear that it is about the Creator of the universe, or at least the head of the pantheon.

On the other hand, those minor gods that are evil, even if they don't hold the portfolio of evil, may still qualify for God of Evil or Jerkass Gods.

Edited by jawal on Sep 30th 2023 at 11:56:04 AM

I think that might just be Alternative Character Interpretation, although if a certain interpretation shows up in a lot of works and a pattern can be spotted, it could be good new-trope material in future.

Judging from the crowner results, people seem to agree God Is Evil is a better name than any alternative, and a cleanup effort should be attempted first. The split will take some of the misuse, and the cleanup means God Is Evil will be "reset" with regard to misuse.