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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  4. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  5. If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  6. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  7. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  8. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  9. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#13851: May 9th 2023 at 6:57:51 PM

[tup] to Dog eyes and Uda, gonna abstain on Cthulhu for a bit (kinda hesitant on the personality bit).

Thanks to Wet for offering the Collab, as they'll handle Moon Lord, now off with the Lunatic Cultist

Who Is The Lunatic Cultist? What Has He Done?

As the name suggest, he's a lunatic in every sense of the word and the leader of the Lunatic Cult that worships the Moon Lord. He's a madman seeking to resurrect his master and in turn, destroy the world of Terraria. To this end, he kidnapped the Mechanic to conduct experiments creating horrific monsters through the body parts of Cthulhu, only needing to finish the mechanical brain to put Cthulhu's full destructive power to use. He later traps the Mechanic in the Dungeon, of which he holds her prisoner there to conduct her work while using the dead to guard the inside.

The Dungeon itself according to the lore was once a city thriving with life, until the cult put a cursed on it that drove everyone mad and live beyond the point that they end up as living rotting corpses only made to guard the dungeon. After which, he cursed the Old Man to guard the dungeon for the rest of his life as the host for the Skeletron boss, a monstrous skeletal being that kill those who summoned it. Now once you defeated the bosses and the remains of Cthulhu, the Lunatic Cultist begins his ritual to summon the Celestial Towers which would summon The Moon Lord and destroy the world.

Not caring that the player killed his minions, the Lunatic empowers himself and tries to kill the player himself to continue his plan. Using a vary of magical projectiles and abilities to kill the player. Though you kill him, he still manages to succeed and summon the Celestial Towers and in turn, the Moon Lord.

Mitigating Factors

While, his personality is small, I think it's still enough to get the idea about this guy. I mean the name says it all, he's a lunatic, a fanatical zealous madman and a sadistic Omnicidal Maniac responsible for the events of the game along with an utter lack of care for his stooges. This in-game description of him even tells us his goals:

A fanatical leader hell-bent on bringing about the apocalypse by reviving the great Cthulhu through behind-the-scenes scheming."

So yeah, I think that's gives us enough info on the guy, also nothing establishing he's genuinely nuts or loyal to the Moon Lord beyond mere fanaticism.

Heinous Standards

Easily, he's an Omnicidal Maniac who's deliberately trying to bring the apocalypse by summoning Moon Lord. He's also responsible for stuff like the construction of the dungeon, cursing the Old Man, and nearly bringing the end of the world. There's also the fact he drove a whole city insane and killed everyone there, bringing them back as skeletal minions in the dungeon.

Many across Terraria have fallen under the possession of the cult, including the benevolent Old Man who oversees the Dungeon, a once thriving city full of life until a curse forced all its inhabitants to go mad – living beyond the point where their bodies rotted away and they became mindless undead servants of evil.

It ain't offscreen too, we fight the skeletons and see the effects onscreen.

Final Verdict

I'll leave it up to you. I think he just has enough personality, even more so than Cthulhu.

Edited by Powermaster201 on May 9th 2023 at 9:58:32 AM

Splonk Harbinger of Cringe from Basement Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Harbinger of Cringe
#13852: May 9th 2023 at 7:00:44 PM

Having played Terraria and read the lore. I am really unsure on Cthulhu, mainly cause while I believe he is heinous enough. He doesn't really show all the much personality aside from being destructive and vengeful. I'm gonna abstain for now, at least until there's an argument for why he has enough characterization.

A tentative [tup] to the Lunatic Cultist though.

Edited by Splonk on May 9th 2023 at 7:01:34 AM

My mere presence makes everyone's day worse.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#13853: May 9th 2023 at 7:01:05 PM

More comfortable with the cultist himself. Again, when you have a cultist seeking to raise some apocalyptic elder evil, you gotta make sure that elder evil has some character of its own ala Yog-Kothag from Forever Evil.

DoodSlayer136 Woagh from Pizza Tower (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#13855: May 9th 2023 at 7:07:31 PM

[tdown] for Cthulhu. Even the game's official lore more or less states that there's nothing to him beyond just nebulously destroying and taking over things. He has no known backstory or personality, he's just Powerful And Evil(tm).

Your story begins with Cthulhu - a creature of immeasurable power and unknown origin - who arrived long ago with its seemingly sole purpose being to rain destruction on and to have dominion over all the sentient life that flourishes on your world.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
Mr-ex777 Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#13856: May 9th 2023 at 7:09:42 PM

[tdown] Cthulhu

Do we have any actual CMs that are the Big C, though? Seems like when it comes to Lovecraft Eldritch Abomination CMs, the most common repeat offenders are Nyarlathotep and Y'glonac with Nyarly as being one of the top 5 with things like Satan and Dracula iirc.

therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#13857: May 9th 2023 at 7:12:44 PM

[tdown] Cthulhu

[tup]The Cultist

"No running in the halls!"
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#13858: May 9th 2023 at 7:15:32 PM

Well the power that the curse the cult uses is from Cthulhu's hatred (if that makes sense lmao) so he's capable of emotions over "me kill" I guess? As for dialogue, ngl he has zilch.

His lore entry as well:

Your story begins with Cthulhu - a creature of immeasurable power and unknown origin – who arrived long ago with its seemingly sole purpose being to rain destruction on and to have dominion over all the sentient life that flourishes on your world.

None could stand against the advances of Cthulhu. The very fabric of Terraria itself seemed on the precipice of doom. At last, when all hope seemed lost, the ancient race of Dryads arose to wage battle against Cthulhu. The Dryads, with their unparalleled connection to the planet, were Terraria's truly last hope as they joined together to save all life from annihilation.

Now another thing to note other deity type bosses have a correlation and purpose towards their nature. Some bestiary examples for reference:

"Serving as the world's core and guardian, the towering demon lord exists to keep powerful ancient spirits sealed away."
"Beneath the Hallow's cleansing blanket lies a vengeful fae goddess bent on scrubbing the land of any and all impurity."

Cthulhu isn't tied to an inherent nature, it just seeks destruction despite the gods in-universe creating a balance between the volatile living environments that try to spread throughout the world and other bestiary entries refer to him as a tyrant.

I will give a more comfortable [tup] to the Lunatic Cultist, nice job!

Edited by WetFlannels on May 9th 2023 at 3:16:33 PM

Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#13859: May 9th 2023 at 7:17:24 PM

Yeah...not comfy with Cthulhu, but the other guy and Khalid? Yes.

And Khalid has a freakign great death from Mace. just a short burst and then Mace steps back and there's a small, smoking hole in Khalid's chest.

"Your victims were wrong about you, Uda Khalid. It was a small target. but you had a heart after all."

DoodSlayer136 Woagh from Pizza Tower (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Echidna from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2021 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#13861: May 9th 2023 at 7:25:09 PM

[tdown] Cthulhu then

[tup] Lunatic Cultist

I have some ROBLOX villains I have found that could qualify here. Trust me, there is plenty more where that's coming from. I'll also be reversing Street Fighter 6 in case anyone comes up.

What's The Work?

The Mimic is a 2021 ROBLOX horror game that is based on urban legends. It stars Yasu and her friends as they go to an old high school not being aware of the dangers they are gonna come across such as the Freddy Krueger monster Kintoru.

Who Is She? What Has She Done?

Kintoru is the main antagonist of Book 1. She is the Four Beasts alongside Enzukai, Netamo, and Yuma who caused havoc for ten days. All of them were stopped by Kusonoki sealing them away before both Kusonoki and his daughter falls under the control of Sama. Kaito decided to help Kintoru but little did he know she made him fall for the trap by giving him a cursed biwa. This caused him and Biwaki to be under control leaving them to become puppets. She met Futaomote who had a mental breakdown of abusing her daughter and a disorder she has. Kintoru tricks her into believing if she consumed her spirit she would be back to normal leading her to become a puppet and die just like her other victims.

Kintoru was sealed in a Sakura tree until Hiachi found her. She finds her and manipulates her into believing she is lonely when in actuality she wanted to curse her after her seal gets opened leading to her having her powers back. It wasn't until Yasu appeared in the old high school to find her parents not being aware they were cursed by Kintoru. Kintoru tries many times to kill him but never does until the end of the chapter. She appeared in front of him to end his life but after the three hearts are destroyed she gets weakened to battle. Yasu finally kills her using Kusonoki’s blessed blade. His family and every one of her victims was finally freed from her tormented curse.

Mitigating Factors

None I can find. While she is created by the Evil Gods there is zero indication she has a moral agency issue. Not only that but she also proves it when she pretty much shows many signs of sadism, implying she wanted to toy with Yasu and the fact she is seen to be manipulative with her friendly facade with no problem. Unlike many other villains in the series, she lacks anything redeeming whether it's a tragedy or not.

Heinous Standard

Kintoru honestly stands out even if the other beast does do heinous actions. She turned many people into her puppets with examples being the family being alive just like others, while also the fact for ten days made a huge rampage across the world and it's pretty much shown on-screen what happened. To make matters even worse aside from the parent everyone else is confirmed to be dead in the good ending which I guess you can call a fate worse than death. If that's not all she's the one responsible for the downfall of Kusunoki, cursed the bloodlines of the Yasu and Juno family, killed Cecil, Kayla, Jason, William, Leon, and Daniel, turning their souls into butterfly spirits even admitting it to the player and cursed countless villagers of Akuyami putting them in fleshes made from her own named Fleshbags.

Final Verdict

Your choice as always.

Edited by Echidna on May 10th 2023 at 1:52:52 PM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#13862: May 9th 2023 at 7:40:05 PM

I'll read the above in a sec.

My final comment for Cthulhu, his body part entries have this to say:

His eye - "A piece of Cthulhu ripped from his body centuries ago in a bloody war. It wanders the night seeking its host body... and revenge!"

His brain - "A piece of Cthulhu torn asunder, this vile mastermind pulses with agony and aids the Crimson in an attempt to avenge its master."

For reference the crimson is described as this:

The Crimson is a single emergent living being connected directly to each world, sharing a hive mind, and solely focused on restoring balance at all costs. Thousands of worlds before the one on which you stand now have been absorbed by this being. Many misguided people have made the horrific mistake of raising the Crimson to the level of a deity – conducting human sacrifices to it to placate the monstrosity or seek its favour. The Crimson gladly consumes these bodies, becoming one with them and producing terrifying beings, who lose the ability to feel and blindly follow the hive mind.

His bones that the cult use - "The disembodied bones of a former tyrant pulsed with a hatred so strong, it left behind a mighty curse which guards the Dungeon."

Whether you can take from this he has a personality is up to you folks! For once heinousness hasn't been my concern for once lmao.

Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
papyru30 The wifi here sucks from South Dakota for school Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
The wifi here sucks
#13863: May 9th 2023 at 7:41:34 PM

Yes to the cultist, Uda-Khalid, and Dogeyes (really puts into perspective just how bad Lee is when 3 of his henchmen also keep) no to Cuthulu

For the above, how nasty is turning people into puppets portrayed? Is is harmless brainwashing, And I Must Scream or something else?

[down]OK yes then

Edited by papyru30 on May 9th 2023 at 8:42:28 AM

Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Echidna from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2021 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#13864: May 9th 2023 at 7:42:07 PM

[up] It's pretty much And I Must Scream fate

Edited by Echidna on May 9th 2023 at 10:42:15 AM

CartoonAllStars Since: Jul, 2018
#13865: May 9th 2023 at 7:45:28 PM

Hello! I have four new candidates for Super Sentai's Complete Monster page.

Salomé (Battle Fever J)

Zero Spear, Bat Zhe Rumba (Ninpuu Sentai Hurricaneger: 10 YEARS AFTER)

Kight Reidlich (Tokusou Sentai Dekaranger: 10 YEARS AFTER)

Garatt Nargo (Kaitou Sentai Lupinranger VS Keisatsu Sentai Patoranger)

All pretty heinous/brutal villains. Someone should take these four up to discussion whoever is the resident expert on Super Sentai & see if any of them are evil enough to qualify.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#13866: May 9th 2023 at 7:48:41 PM

@Wet I think the stuff with his body parts entries might help push him over GDV, but I'm not sure. It does mentioned wanting revenge and the pulsing with hatred but, you know being his body parts and all. I'm still abstaining but leaning on a yes ever so slightly.

Edited by Powermaster201 on May 9th 2023 at 10:48:56 AM

Mr-ex777 Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#13868: May 9th 2023 at 8:01:51 PM

[tup] for Dogeyes, Kintoru, and tentatively for the Lunatic.

@CartoonAllStars If you're familiar with those characters and the source material, and you think they might count, you could give a shot at effortposting yourself, right?

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#13869: May 9th 2023 at 8:03:01 PM

[tup] Kintoru

[tup] Cultist

[tup] Uda-Khalid

[tup] Sam "Dogeyes" Lin

[tup] Said Kamal

[tup] Lady Hera

Watch me destroying my country
PeterVanHelsing Since: Sep, 2019
#13870: May 9th 2023 at 8:23:10 PM

  • Ewoks: Morag the Tulgah witch is the Arch-Nemesis of Logray the Ewok shaman and is responsible for several attempts to destroy him and his tribe. After capturing the Queen of the Wisties, Morag transforms her into a fire carrier and has her infect the other Wisties with her curse, using them to start a forest fire that threatens the Ewok village and causes the trees to cry out in pain and fear, the Ewok children hearing these cries. Later Morag tries to deprive the Ewoks of their medicine by targeting the berries they use for it and in another attempt Morag kidnaps a baby Phlog and frames the Ewoks in the hopes that the baby's family will attack the village and wipe the Ewoks out. In her final appearance, Morag kidnaps several Ewok children and uses them to lure Logray to her in order to force him to trade the powerful Sunstar to her. Only releasing the children so that they may watch her kill their shaman, Morag activates a volcanic eruption that not only threatens the lives of the Ewoks, but her own servants as well.

Edited by PeterVanHelsing on May 9th 2023 at 8:23:28 AM

SumDumNerd Current mood: sick of your shit from the Ever After Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
Current mood: sick of your shit
#13871: May 9th 2023 at 9:02:57 PM

[tup] Cultist and Kintoru

Discussion for Justice League × RWBY: Super Heroes & Huntsmen Part One: No qualifiers... yet. The villain is a mystery for most of the film, and when its revealed, we also get the reveal that they were working with someone else who betrayed them and masterminded the whole thing. Assuming this villain will be revealed in the sequel, they might be a qualifier given they tried to kill and torture the entire core Justice League, Team RWBY, and Team JNR in this film as well as betrayed their ally to the same fate.

Do highly recommend the movie though.

Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#13872: May 9th 2023 at 9:05:35 PM

Yes to Kamal, Shields, Uda, Dogeyes, the cultist, and Kintoru.

What's the work?

Superman & Lois is a tv show that... uh, I don't think is part of the Arrowverse? At least not anymore? It's adjacent and set in the same multiverse, but... whatever. Starring Superman and Lois Lane, obviously, it follows their family misadventures as they move to Smallville with their teenage sons. Shenanigans happen.

The Heavy of the first season, Morgan Edge, is a Corrupt Corporate Executive mining "X-Kryptonite" to give his minions Kryptonian superpowers. Meanwhile, a man from another universe, John Henry Irons, is on a vendetta to murder Superman, claiming that he will turn on humanity and destroy the world.

These two plots turn out to be more connected than you'd think.

Who is Zeta-Rho?

A member of General Zod's Kryptonian "Defense Council," Zeta was the former husband of Lara Lor-Van, Kal-El's mother. She left him for Jor-El, and Zeta vowed revenge. As the planet's destruction crept ever closer, Lara invented a device called "The Eradicator"; intended to preserve their history and culture, it could be used to upload the minds of Kryptonians into other living creatures. However, this would eradicate the host's original mind, giving the device it's name; Lara discontinued the project upon realizing it would not provide a peaceful solution.

Zeta, intent on ensuring the survival of the Kryptonian people, stole the device so the minds of Zod's Defense Council could survive and colonize alien worlds. He offered up his own abused son, Tal-Rho, to leave Krypton and personally carry out this mission. Once Tal could find a powerful enough energy source—a yellow sun, for instance—he could absorb all the minds within himself and transfer them into alien hosts with a mere touch, "resurrecting" them to conquer a new Krypton. As the planet began to break apart, Zeta sent away both the device and Tal... along with Lara's AI crystal thing (the thing Jor-El used to preserve his own mind/train his son on earth), which he had stolen from Kal-El's own pod. He intends to force her to see his triumphant vision for Krypton, before destroying the crystal and wiping her from existence.

On Earth, Tal sets up his own Fortress of Solitude and is mentored by Zeta's AI crystal thing, who forces him through months of withstanding a pain laser thing to burn away any "weakness" as they wait for the Eradicator to arrive. In the meantime, Tal takes the alias of Morgan Edge and begins planning the resurrection, looking for human hosts who will be compatible with the eradication process. X-Kryptonite is needed to power the mind transfer, but only those who have been exposed to the material for long periods of time—for instance, the citizens of Smallville, where meteors of X-Kryptonite crashed down with Kal-El's ship and have remained in the surrounding area for decades—will not reject the Kryptonian possession.

However, Edge decides to deviate from the plan when his half-brother reveals himself to the world as a hero; tired of his father's abuse, he decides he wants a proper family, and restructures the plan so that he won't be forced through a Death of Personality. Edge begins experimenting on the people of Smallville, perfecting the eradication process using the device itself rather than absorbing all the minds into himself and transferring them. Once he builds up a large enough army, he reveals himself to Superman, and when he refuses to join the Defense Council, Edge threatens his family to get him to submit to the eradication process. Zeta's AI personally tortures Clark, intending to replace his mind with that of General Zod.

We see the consequences of this in an alternate universe where the Rho's schemes went unopposed. Superman (either willingly helping or possessed by Zod, it's unclear) leads their Kryptonian army to conquer the planet. Metropolis is wiped out in 7 minutes as their opening move, militaries and resistance fighters are mowed down by their heat vision, Kal-El personally incinerates Lois on live television, and more cities fall as humanity is slowly but surely subjugated. John Henry Irons is revealed to be a survivor from this universe, having been displaced after the events of Crisis on Infinite Earths, and has been hunting down the Superman of this world to kill him before he can commit the same atrocities. Fortunately, he's instead convinced to free Superman from Zod's possession, and Zeta berates the reluctant/terrified Edge into falling back to the original plan.

The collective minds of the Defense Council—dubbing themselves "The Eradicator" for simplicity's sake—subsume Edge's mind and attempt the same massacre of Metropolis that occurred in John Henry Iron's world, before kidnapping Superman's half-Kryptonian son Jordan and implanting Zeta's mind within him. Quickly taking over the body, berating Jordan's consciousness as a pathetic weakling unfit to be Kryptonian, Zeta has The Eradicator go to the X-Kryptonite mines and begin charging up a massive energy surge that will see all of Smallville instantly eradicated. Fortunately, using some fancy Kryptonian tech, Lois goes into her son's mind and uses the standard "believe in yourself" pep talk to get him to push out Zeta's mind (I say that somewhat mockingly, but it's actually done pretty well). The Eradicator, meanwhile, has their collective consciousnesses dispersed by Superman and John Henry Irons, freeing Edge to pull a Heel–Face Turn next season.

Mitigating factors?

Heinousness? No question. Zeta's plans are quite explicitly the end of humanity, mass murder and colonization on global scales. Maybe not quite a total genocide, but enough that John Henry Irons frequently refers to it as the end of the world. No competition within the rest of the Defense Council; Edge is his abused son who has been specifically groomed into fulfilling this plan, while Zod is a glorified Villain of the Week. Zeta, for all intents and purposes, is their true leader.

Now, theoretically he has a well-intentioned goal of saving his race from extinction, but it's in a very narcissistic, Social Darwinist kind of way. He specifically states he wants to force Lara to see "his" vision for how Krypton will be restored, and he derides Jordan as "pathetic, an embarrassment, the weakest of his kind" while proclaiming how he will forge his Kryptonian powers into "proper greatness." Nothing real redeeming, methinks.

Echidna from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2021 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
ReddishGuy1 Since: Jul, 2014
#13874: May 9th 2023 at 9:17:20 PM

@CartoonAllStars As someone familiar with Sentai, I'm open to the four of them qualifying but I'd need to hear explanations for each and how they might qualify, particularly Salome and Bat Zhe Rumba. I recall Salome having a loyalty to Egos and friendliness with Hedder that might be mitigating factors for her, and for Rumba I don't recall him doing anything too heinous other than torture Tenkai, which doesn't stand out much from the average Jakanja plot.

Edited by ReddishGuy1 on May 9th 2023 at 9:17:30 AM

Just imagine something here.
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#13875: May 9th 2023 at 9:17:55 PM

[tup] to Zeta-Rho

Honestly, imma give the slightest [tup] to Cthulhu now thinking about it, considering that his own remains (AKA itself just split into different parts) seeks revenge and cursed an area out of nothing more than spite and hatred makes me think pushed it out GDV I think, maybe at least enough.

Edited by Powermaster201 on May 9th 2023 at 12:24:11 PM


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