Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Nah, it's a good question. Just not sure there's a good answer.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Forgo Light:Everything is fine. Your fears are completely reasonable, justified and adequate. About those two authors, if one of them you mean G, but as far as I remember, 2-3 of his sentences were plagiarized. As for the lies... I don’t know, it’s more like he either rejects mitigating factors in his own opinion or simply misses important information. Moreover, many of his candidates are accurate.
As for the other user....yes, this is downright despicable. Deliberate concealment of mitigating qualities, exaggeration of villainy, lies and plagiarism in all sentences... hmm. But he’s the only one we have and let’s hope that he stays that way.
Edited by Ghal-Sur on Jan 16th 2024 at 12:56:02 PM
This is getting to be an inappropriate level of analysis of the tropers who've posted problematic effort posts. Yes it was wrong but let's put things in perspective please.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Sorry, but I am truly angry at this senseless aggression against someone who has done nothing wrong. I admit, I probably shouldn't have commented so viciously, but at the same time, it's just so wrong. Next time I will leave such comments to myself and simply express a general opinion. But it is wrong to simply condemn others, much less insult them as unscrupulous, simply because you don’t like their arguments.
Yes..., perhaps I really didn’t need to add negativity. Moreover, the moderator had already accommodated, others also rightly condemned. I apologize again for such a comment, but the point of view still remains valid.
The Ultimate Lifeform
I'm sorry, I'm sorry! It's just ever since that incident, I'm paranoid that my occasional dip into wikis to refresh my memory on things when I'm not able to readily rewatch/replay them is gonna get me in trouble in light of this.
Not the Eye
Gonna abstain on Hitler for now.
Also agree that we shouln’t assume bad faith or accuse people of misinformation withous evidence.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jan 16th 2024 at 2:07:13 AM
Relaxed, he's not talking about you. You're doing well. Relax Forgo, you are as good as always.
The Moron
Okay, how’s about we all take a deep breath for a second?
To the person who made the bad faith accusations, I have nothing to add that a mod didn’t say, so I just hope this is a lesson for all of us.
To SW, I’m sorry you had a bad first venture into this thread, so I only hope that you know that one user doesn’t speak for the majority of us and hope you come back to keep participating!
To everyone else, please just relax. There is no reason for anyone to be this heated or freightened, and I think it’s best for all of us to just leave the past in the past. The situation ain’t about anything except the exact thing that happened, so we should just leave it at that.
I just want to remind people that people can disagree with each other without someone deliberately misrepresenting things, sometimes people make mistakes or just have different interpretations on things, let's not just assume that anyone who disagrees with you is in bad faith
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Anyone mind if I add MCU and Arrowverse to Marvel and DC animation for examples with their own pages, like for the live-action series?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Jogo
I'd be fine with that decision.
Not the Eye
Sounds good to me.
Btw, I saw that Prince Xizor is still cut from Star Wars Fan works page, would like to to formally request him to be put back up with the new link to they story I found.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Done.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jan 17th 2024 at 12:54:18 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Feel free to add him back to the Sandbox.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'd like to discuss Reaver from the Fable series. His entry:
- Fable II: Once a young man from Oakvale, Reaver mistakenly destroyed his village by making a pact with demons for immortality. Initially horrified by what he had done, Reaver's avarice led him to continue his bargain with the demons, routinely sacrificing unwitting people to them in return for maintaining his own eternal youth. A petty hedonist, Reaver also shoots multiple artists dead for not depicting him according to his wishes. In Fable III, Reaver becomes a greedy industrialist, using children for labor and forcing his workers into unsafe conditions, killing those who protest against him. When the Hero of Brightwall becomes the ruler of Albion, Reaver acts as an evil advisor to them, suggesting they destroy forests and schools to make room for facilities for his own business ventures.
My issue comes from his diary entries, which can be heard in game, specifically this one...
Such dreams belong to another time. To another man. One who would recoil from the things I've done since that night. Who might even care about all the sacrifices I've offered up to the odious Judges over... over how long? Hundreds of years?
I see that man as he was back then. As beautiful as me, as fiery as me, but so delicate. So breakable. And so afraid of death. I see him summon the Shadow Court into this world, oblivious to the consequences. He asks them for immunity for the disease of time and death, and they grant it.
Then I see him running madly through fields, the realisation of just what price he has unwittingly paid hanging like a tragedy mask from his face. He falls to his knees before the town he called home— now a dark circus of screams. Hers is among them, but he can do nothing to stop it.
What a weak, despicable man he is. But I am not he. I am Reaver. And I will sleep much better after this chalice of wine.
It had been a while and I'd misremembered this as one written in his younger days but it specifically mentions coming from hundreds of years after his first sacrifice. He continues to feed souls to the Shadow Court and his factory in III using child labour is despicable but this makes it pretty clear he still feels guilt over what he did to the villagers he grew up with. The entry has him try to steel himself and say he's Reaver now but the last line literally shows he has to turn to alcohol to dull his mind to what he did. I really can't see him as this trope with that in mind.
Honestly leaning cut for Reaver, if he had intentionally sold out his village I could say he was deliberately suppressing his guilt, but since it was an accident it seems like a tragic mistake he tries unsuccessfully forget about
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
RIP Toriyama
Yeah unless there's something that completely overrides this it seems like Reaver is very much feeling guilt over that initial tragedy and even hundreds of years later has to drink himself to sleep. Looking back on his past self as "weak" throws up red flags but he ultimately settles on the fact he has to drink to feel better about it and he even singles out a "her" he lost in the village tragedy. So I'd say cut, good catch there!
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
If anyone cares to hear his speaking tone here's a video of the reading... starts at 4:24. He does mostly sound over it, more than I recall him doing so but there's definitely a quiver when he gets to the "Hers is among them" I'm not sure I can write off.
Yeah, snip Reaver. Much of a bastard he is, he sounds like he's trying to convince himself that he doesn't care about what happened rather than actually not caring.
Jogo
Cut Reaver
"Stand Proud, Sukuna, you are strong" | He/Him
...wait, so a character who "does bad things but shows emotions" can't be a CM?
Edited by RobertTYL on Jan 18th 2024 at 3:13:45 AM
...Phenomenal
If the emotion in question is connected to something we'd consider a "redeeming feature", like regret or care for another, then yes. That's a disqualifier.
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
Not the Eye
Cut Reaver
Showtime!
Cut Reaver
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Okay... I'm sorry if I was sounding unreasonable, it's just when two different posters who openly lied and/or plagirized in all of their EP's were busted, just a few weeks after another poster was caught doing the same thing... it's just worrying.
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"