Complete Monster Cleanup

Right this isn't a cut per say but there's an issue with this guy, writeup by yours truly when I did the mass rewrite for the page. Ray Beckett

• "Ho'opio" ("To Take Captive"): Ray Beckett is a serial child kidnapper seeking to profit off the welfare checks that were given to his victims. Any child that he kidnaps is routinely abused and disposed of when they get too old. Beckett also extends this abuse to his wife to keep her quiet and cooperative. When arrested, Beckett would mock his victim's parents over their deaths, remaining one of the most chilling criminals the Five-0 have encountered.

Original Writeup I based mine off

• "Ho'opio" ("To Take Captive"): Ray Beckett runs a kidnapping ring where he has kidnapped numerous children whom he would abuse until they reach adulthood, where he proceeds to kill them by burying them alive. Amanda Rollins was only 7 years old when she was kidnapped, and killed ten years later. He would also beat his wife regularly to keep her quiet and cooperative. When the Hawaii Five-0 task force arrests him and demand why he did all this, he responds that he could profit from the welfare checks that were given to the children, and mocks the parents' grievance over the children that he killed.

Now just watching the episode... there's no child trafficking ring that Ray is apart of, just that he's a paying customer of one with only 2 children. One being one who he killed and the other is a child he kidnapped a few days ago.

The child trafficking ring is a proxy he buys off and there's no depth for them.

His EP lists "numerous children" except that's a lie, it's only 2.

So Ray's petty motive is still there but he only has a victim count of one. And the mocking towards the parents? Just didn't happen.

So basically Ray's actions are this:

• Paid someone to kidnap a child to use her to get child benefits for 10 years, states there was abuse but the only thing we see is that she was chained by the ankle in her room.
• Killed her by shooting her when she got too old, no burying alive or anything.
• Hired the same person to kidnap another child so he can get benefits.
• Hides the child in a box in the woods (with an air tube) to use as leverage when Steve and Danny investigate.
• His wife cares for the kids but I don't see where the abuse is towards her? She didn't know about the first kid being killed at 17.

Edited by WetFlannels on Nov 8th 2023 at 3:05:31 PM

He still sounds bad enough to keep, but his entry needs a rewrite.

Edit: On second thought, checking out the franchise page, the competition is too stiff. Maybe if the episode went more in-depth with his actions, but as it stands, cut.

Edited by Critica7 on Nov 8th 2023 at 10:05:42 AM

Yeah I'm going to echo Critica's concerns. They still sound really bad (I mean keeping a child chained up by the ankle? Yeesh), but if the abuse isn't gone into they might not do enough to standout in this franchise.

Cut Ray.

I uh was kind worried something night have been off about that one. As something wasn't vibing about parts of that entry from memories of the episode but didn't ever check.

I might have been okay if it was indicated to be intense abuse over years. But as it is uh cut...

(As Thats pretty uncommon for the show. So quality over quantity)

Cut Ray

Cut Ray

So who's been a confirmed cut this week? Valen and the Star Trek guy?

Edited by ACW on Nov 9th 2023 at 8:33:31 AM

The ambassador was generally voted for cutting and there were more than enough votes. The only thing is, I thought it would be better to wait for Forgo’s answer to Lighty’s question about where the backstory with his son came from. But in general, you can safely cut it out. As for Valen, the removal has just begun, please give him a couple more days, although I am firmly convinced that he will inevitably be cut out, it would be better to give him more time. I think tomorrow evening, if nothing changes, it will be possible to cut out Valen too.

And while you're here, ACW, a couple of things.

When Valen is removed, the reasons include "not heinous enough, other villains with similar resources or less are far superior to him, his crimes are off-screen and undetailed).

Will you answer the questions I asked in private messages? Not necessarily today, just in general. Yes or no.

Larry T:From Sniper Elite 3. I mentioned the work as a whole before the review itself. Sorry if it wasn't noticeable.

There is also an opinion about Valen?

Got it, thank you very much!

Edited by Ghal-Sur on Nov 10th 2023 at 9:33:59 AM

If you're referring to the Octopath stuff, you're gonna have to talk to people who know the games more.

On Film: H to I, Hansel and Gretel films should not be grouped as a franchise.

The are? Why? We don't group by fairy tale adaptations like that.

Should we?

No. The rest of the site doesnt. And let be clear wgbe your talking works like king Arthur and Robin hood that have been around for centuries. Their isn't any set "Canon" as everything does its own thing

Fair enough. I've taken care of that.

EDIT: I'll take care of the 3 cuts tomorrow unless something changes.

Edited by ACW on Nov 9th 2023 at 10:45:16 AM

Not saying we keep Ray, but having seen the episode, there's a moment where McGarret realizes that the child Ray kidnapped was shown to and talked to a Social Services Worker, and said nothing. McGarret then asks the others to imagine the kind of fear Ray must have instilled in the child to make them not speak up. So there's the strong implication that Ray did more than chain the child.

Also, found this for Dathan:

Even Evil Has Loved Ones: He has a brother, Abiram. While we don't see their living conditions as an overseer, Dathan does bring his brother to live with him after he is appointed governor.

Dathans EP.

It seemed Lighty also had also seen the movie so this brother thing might be misuse?

Hmm fair point about Ray there with the fear comment, my main concern though is whether he's bad enough since the EP falsely attributed multiple kids being his victims. When they examine the original child Ray killed when she was 17, there was no marks pertaining abuse apart from the chain. The marks on her were her struggling before her death since she was in the woods before Ray shot her.

Edited by WetFlannels on Nov 9th 2023 at 6:10:05 PM

Since it seems it got lost by being at the end of page, is anybody familiar with comic to answer Critica’s question.

Coming off of a rewatch of YuYu Hakusho, I wanted to propose a rewrite from an earlier write-up I did of Elder Toguro a few years ago.

This is the current entry:

• The Elder Toguro, in contrast to his honorable younger brother, freely admits to being a treacherous sadist devoid of honor. In his first appearance, he kills Yukina's only friends, a pair of bluebirds, with great relish. In his first match at the Dark Tournament, he spares two fighters and promises to let one join Team Toguro. When one begs for his life, Toguro kills him...and then kills the other because he just hates keeping his promises. After the death of Genkai, Toguro uses his powers to make a mockery of her in front of everyone, particularly bringing it up to try to break Kuwabara's spirit during their fight, after he had already beaten and impaled Kuwabara repeatedly. His crowning moment of evil was letting the psychic Gourmet devour him... and then he torturously devoured him from the inside out, delighting in his pain all the while. Later on he would use the Gourmet's powers to eat Yusuke's ally Murota alive. All of these crimes were committed while Elder Toguro was helping in two attempts to open a portal from the demon world into the human world which would lead to the humans being overrun and massacred by the demons.

Here's my proposed rewrite:

• Elder Toguro, in contrast to his honorable younger brother, is a depraved sadist who cast aside his humanity to become a demon. During the Dark Tournament, he promises two bested opponents that he'll spare one depending on who wants it more. When one begs for his life, Toguro kills him, then murders the other because he hates keeping promises. During his match against Kuwabara, he uses his shapeshifting powers to torture him both physically and emotionally by reenacting the murder of his friend Genkai. Nearly being killed by his brother for his dishonorable tactics, Elder allies with the genocidal Sensui. Tricking a psychic named Gourmet into eating him so he can hijack his body, Elder torturously eats him alive from the inside out, reveling in his fear as he drives him to suicide. Gaining his host's ability to absorb the power of whomever he cannibalizes, Toguro eats the telepath Murota alive and intended to do the same to Kuwabara, with the end goal of using Kuwabara's power to open the barrier to the Demon World and allow the demons to Kill All Humans.

In addition to being a little shorter, more polished, and removing minor crimes like killing the bluebirds, it also gives more context to his actions. Particularly regarding the two different plots to open a tunnel to the Demon World. The first time it happens, at least in the anime dub, it's unclear if Elder Toguro is even aware of Sakyo's plan to cause the apocalypse since Sakyo is only ever seen talking to Younger Toguro about it and the Toguro brothers themselves don't converse much onscreen and don't even like each other. With the second plot to tunnel to the Demon World, however, Elder Toguro is not only in on Sensui's plan to wipe out humanity, but he's given an instrumental part to play in absorbing Kuwabara's powers, the one thing capable of bringing down the barrier separating the human and demon worlds.

Good!

Rewrite is much better!

Don't know much about Star Wars sorry so I can't comment on that point there Critica.

In the manga at least I'm pretty sure Elder Toguro knows about Sakyo's plan. He's present at the Tournament Committee meeting and subsequent massacre where Sakyo first talked about his plan, hanging on his younger brother's shoulder as per usual. The anime removed him from the scene probably because he didn't do anything there, but maybe the original write up was referring to that? Either way the rewrite looks good, I just wanted to point that out.

There is also an opinion about Valen?

Clearly, there is no more opinion. It's sad that some get a lot of attention and others less. In any case, there are more than enough votes.

Cut out Ray. Even if what he did to one child was terrible, it is still too little, to be honest, others communicate with children much worse

ACW, now Valen and Ray can be safely cut out. It looks like Forgo is not going to give an answer to Lighty's question, so B'Vat can also be safely cut.

Let me remind you that the reasons for Valen's removal include that he is not bad enough on his own, his actions are off-screen and not given enough attention, and other antagonists are much worse than him with similar or even less resources.

Edited by Ghal-Sur on Nov 10th 2023 at 9:36:09 AM

Well I've been looking for it and I do not know where that info came from. It certainly isn't given in the Federation side. Which is what I have been trying to mention. Maybe it was in a previous version of the game (since updates have rewrote earlier stages of the game) but I cannot find it in the current edition anywhere. The only reason I brought it up is because the STO Wiki lists it, and said wiki is most certainly fallible.

In regards to the brother 23rd century B'Vat is a very different person than 25ty century B'Vat (in fact in old missions the former actually helps you fight the latter, or at least shows disgust with him).

As for the son... you're asking me to prove a negative. I looked and looked and looked and couldn't find any mention of him in game whatsoever, and B'Vat certainly isn't still shedding tears over him, if he ever did. And that's the problem. You say that there's nothing to suggest he didn't care for his son... but there's nothing to suggest he did either. It's why I brought up how certain instances of killing are an insult to the house and it's leader's honor.

This is the exact line on the STO wiki: In 2389 B'vat's son K'das was murdered by Aakan of the House of Mo'Kai, reigniting a blood feud between the two Houses. B'vat swore to hunt down and kill all members of the House of Mo'Kai, which he eventually accomplished. Now I a different case that would be damning. But the cultural aspect is very much a factor. Note it says it ignited a blood feud and that B'Vat would kill all of House Mo'Kai. It doesn't say he did it specifically out of grief for his son.

I'm not keen on assuming it wasn't out of grief for his son if that's what's said on the matter.