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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#3401: Jan 22nd 2023 at 8:11:39 PM

[up][up] Another example is characters who are portrayed as “affectionate” abusers. By which I mean the character is clearly an abuser, but their affection for their victim is genuine enough (in their minds at least) that it’s still disqualifying.

We cut Isiah Johnson for this because as twisted as his feeling are for his father (to the extent it's laughable to even call it “love”) he still grieved his father when he died; even trying to sombrely replicate his image, which shows that Isiah (in his twisted and morbid mind) “loved” his father.

Another example, was an abuser I took off my list as they alternated from being abusive to “loves them but is controlling”. I even got an Word of God answer stating “He cared about his family, but in the way that abusers care about their loved ones.”

Edited by Beast on Jan 22nd 2023 at 8:12:16 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#3402: Jan 23rd 2023 at 3:04:30 AM

Keep Asura

Switching to keep Ronald

Luigigalaxy Since: May, 2022
#3403: Jan 23rd 2023 at 6:20:46 AM

Switching to keep Ronald Taylor

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#3404: Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:22:28 AM

As I just brought this up in the CM proposal thread...

I just proposed Singularity from Bayonetta 3. Easy keeper. The issue is...his crimes kinda blow Loptr out of the water. If Loptr keeps it's solely on the horror of the Witch Hunts, but Singularity has literally wiped out thousands of universes with all that entails. Loptr's count can't even come close and the guy is already a god

Echidna from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2021 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#3405: Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:28:59 AM

Kinda expected this giving how powerful and gigantic his resources are but cut for Loptr.

EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Not the Eye
Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#3407: Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:38:06 AM

Gonna say cut Loptr here.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3408: Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:39:45 AM

Talking several universes vs...a lot less, without much of a power difference? Loptr seems like a cut, bad as he may be.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#3409: Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:44:20 AM

Unfortunately cut Loptr. As bad as Loptr was, The Singularity is the fucking worse

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#3410: Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:45:08 AM

Here's a very specific question on resources in this instant. Would Loptr likely be as bad as Singularity if he had multiversal travel? The fact that Singularity has access to multiple realities as opposed to Loptr's access to one seems like a key difference even with the power imbalance everywhere else.

I think I'd be willing to vote keep if we assume Loptr would be as bad as Singularity if he was aware of the Multiverse and could travel it as well.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#3411: Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:58:30 AM

Weird pattern. When Bayonetta 2 came out, we had to chop Balder and replace him with Loptr. Now Bayonetta 3 comes, we have to chop Loptr and replace him with Singuarity. Who knows what's next.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#3412: Jan 23rd 2023 at 8:01:22 AM

See, I think that's a valid point, but Loptr's goal was ultimately rule the world, not wipe it out. Sure there's casualties, but there's a very distinct imbalance in the ultimate ends here. Loptr would probably ravage the multiverse, replicate the Witch Hunts, but at the end of the day? They'd still be standing. Singularity wants everything annihilated, the souls harvested, and to rebuild it in his own image.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3413: Jan 23rd 2023 at 8:02:24 AM

Cut Loptr.

Was honestly kinda concerned about him.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from NYPD (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
DoodSlayer136 Woagh from Pizza Tower (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#3417: Jan 23rd 2023 at 9:18:45 AM

Isn't Loptr also responsible for all of Balder's atrocities over the centuries due to his taint influencing him?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#3418: Jan 23rd 2023 at 9:19:47 AM

Yes. Singularity still blows that out of the ocean

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#3419: Jan 23rd 2023 at 9:33:07 AM

Ah. I see. THAT old chestnut

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#3421: Jan 23rd 2023 at 9:39:05 AM

yeah, if Loptr was just like an immortal Matthew Hopkins, I'd be fine. But he's a God, a very powerful one. He does a LOT of horrific things and his goals are undeniably well over the top of the line. But Singularity is just THAT bad

Ordeaux26 Professor Gigachad from Canada Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Professor Gigachad
#3422: Jan 23rd 2023 at 9:40:23 AM

Loptr seems like one of those cases where resources hurt him more than they help. So yeah unfortunately it seems like he is a cut.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 23rd 2023 at 9:40:31 AM

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
TotemGenitor Bye Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#3424: Jan 23rd 2023 at 9:54:52 AM

Cut goes Loptr

"No running in the halls!"
Libraryseraph Showtime! from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
Showtime!

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