Characters.Pokémon Reorganization/Cleanup

I was actually hoping we could get rid of the header, or at least do it differently for each 'section' like Characters.Marvel Cinematic Universe: for example, Characters.MCU Guardians Of The Galaxy only shows the 'parent' pages (heroic organizations) and 'child' pages (character pages that have been split off).

Characters.Pokemon Weather Trio might look something like:

From an organizational standpoint I just don't think anyone peeking around the Alolan human characters is suddenly going to want to read the entry for Lickitung that they have to click on said page right away and can't just navigate back to the character sheet.

From an aesthetic standpoint I think it looks way less cluttered.

From a 'workload' standpoint I just don't to make it a necessity to update ~50 pages with the new link when something is moved or split.

Edited by Synchronicity on Mar 31st 2022 at 1:40:42 PM

to Synchronicity's suggestion, because at present the header takes up the entire screen on mobile for me.

Sure, I've got no issue with that.

Any objections to swapping in the sandboxes and using the headers Synchronicity suggested?

Possibly make an update for the current sandboxes as the current pages are regularly edited, but otherwise fine by the shift.

Okay, I've updated the sandboxes; I'm going to start swapping them in.

What about the general tropes that unite things like the gym leaders across the series, i.e. the General Champion Tropes, General Gym Leader Tropes, and so on? Will there be a place for them still? Perhaps under the Pokemon Trainers in General section? https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/Pokemon

Edited by Perentie on Apr 3rd 2022 at 3:30:03 AM

Those folders are saved on Pokemon Characters General. Much of it is either too sparse in details to be kept (stuff like "many champions are friendly to the player" or "many villain grunts dress in bright colors"), misuse (rivals are not The Ace for just roughly keeping pace with the player), or are duplicates of entries in specific character folders.

Honestly, those should just go to Franchise.Pokemon. I think this of most 'in general' sections, but in this case they are describing trainers as they show up as a facet of the setting and not a specific group^eg.  "Cosmic Motifs" for Team Galactic, so they are better on the general work page.

(Thank you for handling it Orbiting!! :) The evil has been defeated!)

Edited by Synchronicity on Apr 3rd 2022 at 5:50:08 AM

No prob! I've turned the general character pages for champions, gym leaders, etc. into redirects to Characters.Pokemon, since it seems they've got too many redirects to be cut. I'm wondering why Characters.Pokemon Glitches's cut request was declined though- it seemed like everyone was in agreement when it was discussed that unintended glitches weren't characters and that page didn't shouldn't exist.

All of the Pokémon subpages were declined because they had too many inbounds so you will have to redirect that one too

~Leilukin, I saw you split off a new separate page for Team Plasma. Please discuss big page moves like that here- why did you split it off? Pokémon Black and White wasn't at the page limit, and the previous page for Team Plasma is still acting as a redirect to it.

Edited by Orbiting on Apr 4th 2022 at 4:52:46 AM

Yeah, the Team Plasma page should be merged back.

I don't think we had consensus to get rid of Characters.Pokemon Glitches. I believe it's been discussed multiple times before and kept.

Also, I think "The character sheet for the X generation's Pokémon got so big that it had to be split. For the rest, go here." at the top of pages is redundant with the navigation and could be removed.

Edited by rjd1922 on Apr 4th 2022 at 6:32:52 AM

It seemed like the glitch page was discussed multiple times on ATT with no conclusion on what to do with it, but since no one spoke in its defense when it was brought up on this thread and instead several people said to cut it, I figured that was enough.

And yeah, those lines seem unnecessary since the navigation bar is right above them. I've got no objections to removing them.

Edited by Orbiting on Apr 4th 2022 at 6:59:28 AM

Regarding the redirects for Gym Leaders, Elite Four, etc. what about the text that was on those pages? Is it okay to post them on the https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/Pokemon page? I still think it is useful to have the tropes that apply to those trainer types as a whole available to see. Apologies if this was explained, but I don't quite understand what the point of having the redirects are if the material isn't there to see when you are redirected.

~Orbiting Sorry, I wasn't aware of the existence of this discussion thread when I edited the character pages for Pokémon. I split Team Plasma off to its own page because when I tried to edit the character page for Pokémon Black and White before that, the edit page showed a warning that the page had gotten too long and needed to be split.

Edited by Leilukin on Apr 4th 2022 at 7:57:42 PM

That's weird, since I don't think the sandbox was showing the too long warning. If Characters.Pokemon Black And White is indeed too long, the Team Plasma page can stay split.

Edited by rjd1922 on Apr 4th 2022 at 7:11:47 AM

So, here's another question that's been bothering me: across the subpages, people use various Elemental Powers and various other 'powers' subtropes for characters' Pokemon (eg. even if it's only one 'mon that they use once).

Darach, Characters.Pokemon Diamond And Pearl:

• Playing with Fire: Uses a Houndoom in his your first bout with him, and swaps it out for an Entei in the rematch.

• Dragon Tamer: At the Battle Maison, he can have the Rock/Dragon Tyrantrum as his partner.

This...reads like really bad misuse? here's another trope we have, Elemental Motifs, that I think reasonably fits type specialists whose appearance/occupation/personality/hobbies fit with their specialized types (eg. Electric-type leader Volkner having spiky yellow hair and engineering his city's power grid). But 'someone uses a Houndoom once' doesn't mean they have fire powers or fire associations (rather, Houndoom itself having fire powers is already sufficiently troped on Characters.Pokemon Generation II Qwilfish To Celebi). The use of Dragon Tamer especially bugs me since taming dragons is supposed to be cool/badass, which isn't gotten across by having a single Dragon-type.

Thoughts?

I don't think they belong on the trainers themselves because they aren't the ones with the elemental powers. I don't think someone specializing in water type Pokémon is enough to put them under Making a Splash.

I agree that Elemental Motifs would work for trainers that have their specialized types woven into their character though.

Obviously the trope doesn't belong to me, but when I concocted the description for Dragon Tamer back when it was still in TLP, my thought was that the coolness factor was there but not an inherent part of the trope like actually training a dragon is.

Edited by rmctagg09 on Apr 9th 2022 at 5:48:32 AM

I guess that begs the question — is having a Dragon-type Pokemon more special than, like, a Water-type Pokemon (probably) and does having one ''automatically' 'make you a "dragon tamer"? Does that reflect on the trainer enough to be in their character sheet?

In terms of specialists? Most of the Dragon-type trainers are either the eight and such last Gym Leader in the region or are part of the Elite Four. The only ones who aren't are Zinnia, who has more lore connections, and Ryuki, who uses them because he's a rock star and dragons are cool. Even someone like Cynthia has her ace be the Dragon/Ground Garchomp, and she's the Champion of Sinnoh. So in that sense, Dragon Tamer could be applied to them. I would even argue that troping specific elemental tropes to the type specialists is fine since that is what they focus mainly on.

But as for using those tropes to mention that "Oh, this trainer also uses X Pokémon in certain fights"? Nah, that is stretching things too thin. Grant isn't really special because Tyrantrum is part Dragon-type. He is just using it because he is the Rock-type Gym Leader who just decides to use both of the region's fossils.

I think Dragon Tamer should only apply to you know dragon type specialists (Cynthia, Lance, Iris, etc.)

Their all considered the most powerful trainers of their region or heck the world. Giving it a special oomph to highlight the power of the dragon type.

Not for anyone who has a dragon type.

^Yeah, that's fair. Lance and Clair are hyped up for their Dragon 'mons. Trevor is not. Putting Dragon Tamer for Lance and Clair would be akin to putting Elemental Motifs for the other type specialists.

Edited by Synchronicity on Apr 9th 2022 at 7:37:02 AM