Misused: Mexicans Love Speedy Gonzales

Bah, sorry, I'd completely forgotten that you'd done so! ^^;

In my defence, I did add a definite article! I'm contributing! XP

Hmm... "Caricature Beloved By The Caricatured" doesn't flow quite as well, I feel, but it does work.

A good point! I was really just stopping by to offer some names, since I saw that there was discussion of such. ^^;

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Mar 8th 2021 at 11:51:43 AM

Personally I think all the suggested renames are too clunky or unclear.

Looks like the current option ahead is just to do cleanup. Maybe we can even start a short-term cleanup thread?

Maybe. First though we need a crowner. Looks like we should do a single-prop first and see if people actually want to rename it.

I was referring to this crowner somebody made with more options. So far the consensus is to do cleanup and the rename option hasn't gained consensus. Maybe that'll change if we hook it?

Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 9th 2021 at 3:54:28 PM

Voted down the rename because from the discussion here I only see clunky names, unclear names or misleading names proposed as alternatives. Changing one bad name against another is quite pointless. Also voted down the "make another trope" option because it's a waste of time to do so within a TRS.

Just came here to talk about recent trend about the head of WB wanting Speedy Gonzales to be delisted from the cast. Fan reactions and general response are overwhelming associated with this trope so I don't think this trope need to be change for now until some time.

Edited by rouward on Mar 14th 2021 at 3:21:03 AM

The page is not for Looney Tunes fans. It’s describing an audience reaction that exists outside of Looney Tunes.

Double post to week-long-bump the crowner, which appears to be pretty solid.

Should we make a thread for cleanup? Would it be short term or long term? (I suspect the former.)

It only has 427 wicks so maybe Short?

oh, hi, uh, i kind of went off-site for a bit and completely forgot i'd started this thread. yeah cleanup and moving misuse to Germans Love David Hasselhoff seems like a fine option to me, since i don't think any of the proposed names are as snappy (Beloved Stereotype was really the only thing that came to mind), and the misuse can still be curbed if we're tighter about what the trope actually entails. i'd guess short-term cleanup would be the proper place for this judging by similar threads?

edit: i also noted in the wick check that it'd be worth moving some other examples to Misaimed Fandom instead, especially in cases where it's a hobby being targeted rather than a minority group (such as metalheads for Beavis and Butthead). these examples are fewer than GLDH misuse, but still worth pointing out. i think "a group of people like when they're represented positively in outside media" is a bit too close to sitting on chairs, but maybe it could be made more clear in the description of GLDH that those kinds of examples fall under it? Coco is the obvious "GLDH, not MLSG" example, imo.

Edited by NoUsername on Mar 19th 2021 at 4:41:50 AM

Did some wick cleanup here. Do the on-page examples need cleanup as well?

absolutely, i already picked out a few on-page examples in the OP and there's several more along the same lines still there. thank you a ton for starting on the work, i'll definitely go through it more in-depth when i get a few hours

Personally I think the subculture examples can count as long as it's an obvious unflattering stereotype of the subculture. I think restricting this to minority groups might lead to awkward questions about what "counts" as a minority, and restricting it to racial stereotypes feels too narrow.

On another note, a specific on-page example I'd like to bring up is Kyle Broflovski from South Park. Kyle is not designed as a Jewish stereotype, and is even contrasted against his cousin, who is a Jewish stereotype. However, his Judaism is the source of constant antisemitic jokes in-universe and his family does include stereotypical attributes, such as his Jewish Mother.

Jimmy's in a similar boat. I think Timmy can still qualify as MLSG because most of the jokes surrounding him are at the expense of his disability, even if he's not necessarily always treated as lesser for it, but Jimmy's grown out of his role as just being the rival disabled character and he's a bit more fleshed out. But there are still a lot of jokes at the expense of his stammer and occasionally his legs.

EDIT: Sure enough, Septimus edited the YMMV page for the show, but just changed the item to Misaimed Fandom. Ignoring that there's now two entries for Misaimed Fandom on the page, frankly I'm not sure if every entry is even Misaimed Fandom — Periphery Demographic would fit better as it's not like everybody is missing the point by liking the material. I also don't get why the Canada entry was also cut under that header. The Canadians in the show are often depicted stereotypically or at least Canada is treated as some bizarre Cloud Cuckoo Land.

A creator can still make a self-deprecating stereotype, especially if they're doing a No True Scotsman thing, so I would say yes. South Park has an example of a stereotypical Jewish character who is meant to be annoying and unlikable (though he's not popular enough to qualify as this item).

Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 19th 2021 at 3:29:30 PM

I thought one of the creators or South Park was Jewish? Does MLSG still apply if the creator is part of that minority?

I was actually uncertain about the subculture examples, myself. I think we could cover them under this trope so as long as we are clear that the examples need to be about stereotypical/unflattering depictions.

Re YMMV.South Park ... buh. Paging through hundreds of edit screens hampers perception. I'll see to merge these examples until we know what to do with them.

Totally understandable, Septimus. Here's my take on the South Park examples on the YMMV page that were merged under Misaimed Fandom:

• While "The Cissy" was viewed as good or average by the majority of viewers, it was extremely popular with trans (and trans supporting) fans of the show. Not MLSG because there are no stereotypical depictions of trans people (only two characters faking being trans and a character crossdressing) and the episode is actually mostly supportive of trans rights than mocking towards them. It can go to LGBT Fanbase.
• There are a number of episodes that poke fun at Canada (like one that paints it like it's Oz). That said, it has a surprisingly-plentiful fanbase among Canadians. Hell, it's to the point where at least one YouTube comment jokingly said that this clip is 100% accurate. Weblink aside, but I think this is valid. The Canadians are often depicted lovingly but rely on a lot of stereotypes and a comic lack of regard for accuracy to Canadian culture.
• There's a handful of handicapped fans who love Jimmy and Timmy. Like I said above, Timmy is definitely valid, but Jimmy's been developed since his first appearance. Still, there's enough jokes at the expense of their disability where this might qualify. I can rewrite this with a better explanation.
• Despite the show consistently having a dim view on Hollywood and celebrity culture as a whole, there have been many actors and actresses that have expressed love for the show and Parker & Stone. Much like with MAD Magazine, being lampooned by South Park is considered an achievement for pop-culture figures. This could be Misaimed Fandom or maybe Approval of God.
• Right-wing voters have taken the Trump-bashing episodes with good humour and have made no complaints over South Park's views becoming more progressive over time. Likewise, plenty of left-wing voters have been longtime fans despite being regular punching-bags. I'd say this is Misaimed Fandom but most people who watch the show know they're being mocked. And it's not really Periphery Demographic if every political alignment watches the show, and it was never really marketed to one specific political demographic (the creators are usually centrists/libertarians but don't necessarily expect their audience to be).

One that I think is missing that could belong here could be the Goth Kids, if we allow the subculture examples. The entire joke is a mockery of goth subculture as hypocritical and pathetically cynical and indistinguishable from other alternative subcultures, but goth people really love them. Same with the Vamp Kids.

hmm, you think subcultures would be fine under this trope then? i suppose that's fine, then, but i think it should still be made clear when one is Misaimed Fandom rather than this. the nuance with misaimed fandom seems to be that generally the targeted group doesn't understand that they're being mocked, whereas with MLSG, they do but just don't care. there is some overlap there, but in many cases i think one over the other is more fitting (again coming back to Beavis and Butthead).

i'm also not entirely sure if Self-Deprecation should count, which i also mentioned on the wick check, since at that point it's debatable whether the stereotype is actually harmful or just playful ribbing at one's own (Affectionate Parody). i feel like having an "in group" and an "out group" is important to the idea of the trope.

is it okay if i start the cleanup thread in short-term projects?

Might as well.

I know I'm late to the discussion, but from what I understand, "Mexicans Love Speedy Gonzales" is about a character being liked by members of a particular community, despite having many of the stereotypes associated with that community.

There can be a combination of stereotyping and positive representation. A gay character who doesn't display any stereotypes associated with the community wouldn't count regardless of how well liked he is. On the other hand, a stereotypical gay character counts if he is popular with the community.

I think the name is fine, but if you want to change it, I would suggest Ethnic Darkhorse, kinda like how there is "The Scrappy" and "Ethnic Scrappy".

Ethnic Dark Horse could easily be mistaken as "a character who is an ethnic minority becomes an Ensemble Dark Horse".

Since we have a thread here I'll close this one.