Ambiguous Name: John Barleycorn And Friends

Crowner was hooked on the 18th, hollering for a close:

• Anthropomorphic Vice 2.67 : 1
• Anthropomorphic Addiction 2.13 : 1

All other suggestions in the red.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Should we have a crowner as to whether we should extend the trope to non-consumable vices?

Yes, we should.

ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔|I DO COMMISSIONS|ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔

I mean...I'm fine with a crowner for that, but I also don't really see the point, because Tropes Are Flexible and that means that this trope should theoretically already be able to include other addictions.

But what the hey, make a crowner ig

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

The description only mentions consumable vices; I don't see anything that would imply that it includes stuff like gambling.

Here's the first paragraph of the description (bolded for emphasis):

I think we should have a crowner for expanding the definition.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 22nd 2020 at 4:32:27 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

One thing to remember is that the description isn't always the actual definition, at least not in scope; many descriptions are more narrow than the actual tropes are. This could be one of those cases.

Like I said, I'm not opposed to a crowner, I just think the issue is with the description more than the definition. But maybe that's splitting hairs.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Fair—I'm happy to support this result! ^_^

I would like to see one, myself.

Either way, it seems to me that if the two differ, then it's not a bad idea to update the description: either to match the de facto definition, or to change the official definition.

Right now the trope is worded to specifically limit its scope. And while tropes are indeed flexible, I feel that the wording here is specific enough that stretching examples beyond consumables would stray into misuse.

Thus, if we want non-consumable vices included, I'd want to have the description altered to allow for them.

(Unless we determine that the trope should remain limited to consumables, of course.)

My Games & Writing

Yeah, I think that if the description and the definition don't match, something should be changed.

I've been having these weird thoughts lately... like, is any of this for real, or not?

Agreed. If the examples and the description don't add up, that's not Tropes Are Flexible, it's misuse.

Eh, I was being extremely pedantic and I'm aware of that. I've no problems with changing the description, I just sort of took it as a given that "OF COURSE this is flexible enough". It simply didn't make sense to me that it would even be all that narrow.

In the end, it doesn't really matter- something's gotta change.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I think there is clear consensus for Anthropomorphic Vice. Since there is already considerable support for expanding the definition, a Single Proposition crowner has been created at https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php/SingleProposition/JohnBarleycornAndFriends, but I won't request a hook until tomorrow.

I'm back!

I'll swap the crowners.

But first, calling in favor of Anthropomorphic Vice, with Anthropomorphic Addiction as a redirect.

Edit: After checking again, Addiction fell below concensus range.

Edited by Berrenta on Dec 24th 2020 at 11:47:04 AM

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

The laconic may also need a change too. Not everyone will know who Nick (as in nicotine), John (the trope namer) and Jay mean... especially John and Jay.

Edited by callmeamuffin on Dec 25th 2020 at 10:26:56 PM

Come play Character Uplift Game!

I don't even know who Jay is. And regarding Nic being a stand-in for nicotine, Mary Jane as a stand-in for marijuana would have been clearer than any of the other names.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Well, it's been three days since the crowner was up, and 17 had said Yes to rename this to Anthropomorphic Vice AND expand this to non-consumables.

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Tweaked the description and the laconic.

Rock'n'roll never dies!

Also, transplanted the John Barleycorn description to the "Myth and Legend" folder just in case.

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Okay, going to perform the move in just a moment!

Edit: Main page is now moved. As for wicks...there's not much; only 42. I'll move the laconic and the other subpages.

Edited by Berrenta on Dec 27th 2020 at 12:55:51 PM

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

Just to add the link to the TLP draft for sentimental remembrance that the former name, "John Barleycorn and Friends", was done in TLP.

F

Update: Done helping on cross-rewicking.

Edited by alnair20aug93 on Dec 28th 2020 at 3:51:58 AM

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I see we've finished the wick removal. Should we keep as a redirect or, since inbounds aren't very substantial, cut?

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

We could keep it as a redirect, much like "Ten With A Two" to Beer Goggles.

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I say keep it as a redirect.

I guess we could keep it for now, as some people still have not known that the trope was renamed.

Come play Character Uplift Game!

Alright then. Going to note the rename in the appropriate places and close.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report