Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) Cleanup

x3 They are not contradictory at all, a large number of the Chinese don't live in China or agree with CCP's cultural policies.

You can probably add this Wikipedia link to the second example for those who don't know who the "overseas Chinese" are.

Edited by Asherinka on Sep 20th 2021 at 12:28:45 PM

Yeah, the gist of it is that some Chinese people living inside mainland China (an extreme example of a police state) hate it, but Chinese people who don't (which is a lot of us, not just Hong Kong and Taiwan) feel otherwise.

So… someone edited MCU: Gamora a while back, stating that the 2014 Gamora isn’t a Variant because the events that led to her Point of Divergence happening in the Sacred Timeline, this in spite of the fact that she’s an alternate Gamora that diverged off of the main Gamora. Permission to reclassify?

On the topic of Variety:

We've been using Variety as one of only two other sources on the same "trust tier" as Marvel Studios themselves since, like....we've had the MCU pages, basically. When they scoop it, we use it and they've never given us a reason not to with their reliability and accuracy.

However, some folks are now starting to dissent on Variety as well, seeing ANYTHING and EVERYTHING NOT Marvel Studios as rumormongering at best. So, we need to nail it down right here and now:

YAY: We continue to use them as a source as always.

NAY: We stop using them as a source, and purge everything - and I mean everything - that cites their articles that isn't out yet.

Just keep in mind that...they've basically never been wrong. Ever. And virtually every other site, Wikipedia included, takes their word as law as among the most trusted sources.

Gigan: Go ahead. Every Variant was part of the Sacred Timeline until they weren't.

Extractor: I'll take the blame as the one who last cut some Variety info, but to my understanding it's site policy. From Creating a Work Page for an Upcoming Work: "[Upcoming works] must have an announced name and official advertising/pre-release materials." Variety's reporting doesn't qualify as official materials, it has to come straight from Marvel. The MCU page itself also has the notes for editors:

• "DO NOT ADD: X-Men, or any other rumored films or series to this list or a hypothetical Phase Five list — they must have a formal reveal or acknowledgment by Marvel Studios."
• "DO NOT ADD: Information based on trade reports, websites, unnamed sources, etc. Only information with official confirmation via Disney or Marvel (or Sony in the case of Spider-Man), the cast and crew behind the project being discussed, or their representatives."

Edited by DragonRanger on Oct 12th 2021 at 12:27:39 PM

For the record, I'm indifferent. I just want everything to be consistent and tidy.

Is it ok if I move every single entry under Shocking Moments across all of the MCU works to Marvel Cinematic Universe?

Also, I think What If can have an Author's Saving Throw subpage

Edited by magnumtropus on Nov 4th 2021 at 10:00:35 PM

In the spirit of the recent cleanup for the WhatCouldHaveBeen page, I've been wondering if it's a good idea to do it for some of the other pages too, especially those split off by Anddrix, since many of them are just a hit-by-hit list of every instance of a trope occurring in the MCU.

IMO we should try to migrate work-specific examples back to their own main or YMMV pages and save the dedicated pages attached to the Marvel Cinematic Universe namespace just for those examples that affect multiple works in the MCU, or which are actually so common across the MCU (something like over half of all entries in the MCU) that it makes sense to have a broad catch-all page for them.

I'm thinking of clearing out ShoutOut and HoYay first, since most of the former already has their own pages to begin with, while the latter doesn't really seem to have a good reason to be on its own page, including a bunch of empty folders and pointless phase division.

Edited by AlleyOop on Nov 22nd 2021 at 11:59:48 AM

Well, it's been about a day, and if there is no opposition, then I'm going to start migrating.

I'm noticing that more centralized MCU pages are popping up, even though most people in the main threads agree they should be kept to their own YMMV pages unless the example applies to multiple entries in the series at once.

I was just wondering what to with Marvel Cinematic Universe. Should it be clean up of those as well. As it has examples that could be on one page.

Edit: Maybe I should ask the FPC thread instead.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 19th 2022 at 5:41:27 AM

Can we untag spoilers for Infinity War and Endgame at this point on the character pages? Everyone knows that the characters got Snapped and came back, especially with all these movies starring snapped characters openly talking about the events of those movies.

I wouldn't object to it.

Edited by gjjones on May 9th 2022 at 5:41:04 AM

I'm just going to do it and see how it goes.

EDIT: I've gone and unmarked Endgame and Infinity War spoilers on every MCU page except Iron Man and Captain America's. I figured since their stories end with those movies, it makes sense to keep those spoilers tagged.

Edited by DustSnitch on May 12th 2022 at 4:05:42 AM

Since somebody asked for the discussion to get moved to the forum, there seems to be a debate among tropers on whether we should use the word "Earth-616" anymore, since it seems to refer to one universe in the Cinematic Universe and another universe in the comics, with no indication that the two Earth-616s are the same one.

To clarify, as of Multiverse of Madness, both the main comics universe and the main MCU universe have been given the designation Earth-616 (up until this point, the MCU was referred to as Earth-199999 in the rare occasions that it was relevant), which has sparked some debate over how to refer to the latter. Personally I'm of the opinion that, for the "main" MCU at least, we should avoid using the number designation altogether since universe numerical designations in general are pretty niche (the only other universe in the MCU to be given a number is the one the Illuminati are from in Mo M) and instead just use "in the main MCU" or "in the main movie universe" as compared to "in the comics" or "in the main Marvel comics universe" so casual fans don't have to wonder what the numbers mean. Other tropers in that ATT argued for using 616 as that's now the official designation (cited by both Mysterio in Far from Home and the Illuminati in Multiverse of Madness), although someone else pointed out that Mysterio was lying and the term wasn't given much focus either time. The term "Sacred Timeline" was also pitched, as it was used more significantly in Loki and also helps differentiate between the main MCU and other universes.

~@Edgar 81539 was the biggest proponent of using "Earth-616" and the one who suggested bringing it to the forums in the first place, so I'm attempting to ping him here.

Edited by Afterword on May 11th 2022 at 2:18:15 PM

I overall agree. Moving forward, the only thing that makes sense is plain not using 616 on MCU pages at all. At best it invites confusion because then there are two 616's.

Even if Comics-616 is changed to another designation, there's still an issue about using the 616 designation to refer to the MCU since then readers need to try to parse out whether the entry was written before Strange 2 or not.

The term should just be avoided.

Further muddying the waters is that its use in Far From Home was from the mouth of a lying liar who was actively lying. That is not any more a point in favor of using the 616 designation than it is in favor of adding Mysterio to a list of sorcerers.

Agreed, except now it's considerably more confusing even to comics-nerds. They managed to make it so that it's confusing to everyone.

Edited by Larkmarn on May 12th 2022 at 10:43:29 AM

"616" and other number designations are meaningless to people who aren't comics nerds like us. I'd prefer more self-explanatory descriptors like "the comics version" or "the MCU version" instead.

This is the take

As the person who set up that ATT thread, I honestly agree with sort of avoiding numbering in general due to the current confusion.

I do think it's interesting that there probably wouldn't be nearly as much confusion if Mysterio's fake Earth designation didn't match Palmer's database.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was unintentional and the writers were just being independently cheeky.

If I'm being perfectly honest, I... genuinely kinda think that the problem stems from writers and producers half-remembering FFH and only remembering that this universe was referred to as 616 and not remembering the context of that (that someone who would have no means of knowing a designation was lying about the multiverse) and just threw it in.

I haven't seen Strange 2 so I don't know the details. But honestly, No Way Home wasn't... exactly written in a manner to avoid plotholes.

The whole thing is probably just a Mythology Gag. The Loki show also had a Freeze-Frame Bonus where the Sacred Timeline was designated 616.

Edited by costanton11 on May 12th 2022 at 10:29:21 AM

It still hasn't been brought up enough that a casual fan would know what's being talked about when a post references Earth-616.

If it's the case that we should be avoiding numerical references, I still don't see much of a reason to keep using "the Sacred Timeline" in literally every entry. Not only does the term sound cult-ish but it's also a mouthful. I personally think that using MCU-"X" or "Main X" would be much better, only using descriptors such as 838 when it's pertinent (such as most of the entries concerning Multiverse of Madness). I will admit that whenever I read "the Sacred Timeline x" whenever I check an entry - no matter if it pertains to the multiverse or if it was shoved in there just because - I roll my eyes a bit. Besides I think that the term doesn't even make sense anymore because there's no Sacred Timeline for the TVA to protect after the events of Loki.

Checking the thread here, it also seems that other persons also had a problem with "Sacred Timeline" as the term sounds a bit presumptous and also matters very little outside of the context of Loki, so there's a precedent.

Also sorry if I didn't make another thread or bring up the issue here before, I was a bit busy with Mother's day.

Edited by Edgar81539 on May 14th 2022 at 2:40:17 PM