Cleaning Anvilicious and Some Anvils Need to be Dropped

YMMV.The Ren And Stimpy Show

• Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped: Don't piss on an electric fence. You will be blown to hell or at the least, really hurt yourself.

What.

They were playing a board game called "Don't Whiz on the Electric Fence."

Honestly sounds like a Spoof Aesop given the context.

IMO making the Anvil of the Story supertrope seems to have made everything worse, as it implies that "This is the supertrope. It can be done poorly or done well".

Another ATT thread questioning the usage of SANTBD.

How was Anvil of the Story supposed to help? Saying it can be good or bad doesn't get to the heart of the misuse of the good, how the lack of subtlety improves it.

I recall that we wanted to clean up SANTBD examples then see if it needed TRS. It seems things have not improved. Is it time for a TRS?

Also, SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic is effectively entirely misuse, simply restating the Aesop or things that aren't the intended Aesop, only "The Ending of the End" kinda explains how the blatantness improves the work but I'm not sure if this trope. Should it be cut or redirected (to where)?

Plus, since Anvil of the Story can't be used in examples, how many people who don't know about the TRS thread and don't read descriptions - the type of people who misuse the Anvils - even know that it exists?

I genuinely forget why we made Anvil of the Story. I was part of the TRS that decided it and even I'm at a loss.

I'm placing my bets that we end up cutting it at the next TRS for the Anvil tropes. Its existence seems to have brought no benefits. (I regret that I wasn't involved in TRS at the time - I do have ideas for how Some Anvils can be fixed, though I'm not against cutting it either.)

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 19th 2020 at 2:46:01 PM

I remember being very sure that Anvil of the Story was a good plan, but I can't recall why, or how it's different from An Aesop...

According to the FAQ and item description, the difference is Anvil of the Story is about "heavy-handed" morals. It serves to define the "anvil" in the two "anvil" tropes, but instead discourages the idea that Anvilicious is supposed to be neutral as opposed to bad, since people may believe Anvil of the Story is the "neutral" item that gets split into binary subitems.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:02:14 PM

I think that was actually the idea behind it. Anvilicious was meant to be the supertrope to Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped, but it was used as "heavy aesop done wrong".

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 19th 2020 at 3:14:35 PM

While we're at it, could we please take a look at the subpage SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped.Mister Metokur? I honestly think we don't need it:

• His videos are not preachy in the first place.
• The entries seem to be mostly in line with "I like and agree with what this guy says".
• While Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped is YMMV, one has to argue that in the particular case of Metokur he preaches "free speech" as an excuse to bully and harass other people.
• And finally, without hyperbole the guy is an alt-righter, so even if the examples are valid they would belong more to Don't Shoot the Message.

YMMV.Happiest Season:

• Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped: John's speech to Abby about how not everybody has a good experience when coming out.
  John: What did your parents say when you told them you were gay?
  Abby: ... They told me they loved me, and supported me.
  John: That's amazing. My dad kicked me out of the house and didn't talk to me for 13 years after I told him. Everybody's story is different. There's your version and my version and every version in between. But the one thing that all those stories have in common is that moment right before you say those words. When your heart is racing and you don't know what's coming next. That moments really terrifying. And once you say those words, you can't un-say them. A chapter has ended and a new one has began. You have to be ready for that. And you can't do it for anyone else.

Is this closer to Anvil of the Story? Does it have enough context for that?

That sounds more like a Hard Truth Aesop.

It says nothing about how the message was received, so it doesn't really have enough context for any of the anvil entries.

I moved it to Hard Truth Aesop on the main page (with a tad more context). Thanks!

I found this on Little Fires Everywhere:

• Anvilicious: Some audience reviews criticized the show as this, especially in regards to Elena and race/class issues.

• Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped: The views of other audience members regarding Elena's character and the overall story.

This seems to be defensive and doesn't elaborate how the message elevates the story.

Those are both zero-context examples. If nothing else, it needs to explain what the message is.

I've cut both of them.

I brought up this example a while ago, but I didn't get a response about what to do:

• Anvilicious: According to this Gizmodo article, it's been suggested that the morals and aesops are a bit too obvious.
  • Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped: Despite the heavy handed messaging, there is debate to be had whether or not the messages should be obvious or not.

This also feels like a defensive entry and lacks context.

• Anvilicious: It wasn't enough for Bart to get into trouble and punished for his shoplifting like any other episode, they had to have everyone flagrantly condemn him for what he's done, even by those who are guilty of goading him into shoplifting in the first place, and especially by his mother Marge, who proceeds to make him pay by ignoring him until Bart decides to make up for what he did. Audiences ended up feeling that the episode went a bit overboard in the lesson, especially when Bart had done things as bad as this in previous episodes, and wasn't condemned nearly as much like in this episode.

The whole thing just reeks of stealth complaining and only one person outright condemns him for shoplifting throughout the whole episode.

It does. I believe it's cuttable.

YMMV.Nintendo Wars

• Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped: Chapter 19 in Days of Ruin. Desperate people infected with a horrific and terminal super-plague have turned to an abusive cult that promises magical miracle cures in exchange for their obedience. After unsuccessfully attacking the armed soldiers for "sacrifices" and their supplies at the cult leader's urging (who perishes in the attack), the survivors are told by the troops' doctor that, while science might work slowly and not tell them whatever they want to hear, they should trust it, not magic-peddling hucksters, for medical solutions, because science actually will solve their problems. This particular anvil falls on both religions that prey on desperate people's fears, and on alternative medicine generally. This has also, unfortunately, become more prominent long after the game was released due to the rise of antivaxers.

This seems like an example, though I think the last paragraph mentioning anti-vaxxers should be nipped for ROCEJ concerns.

None of them are.

SANTBD is supposed to be "The aesop is better when it's heavy-handed", not "this aesop is good."

Edited by ccorb on Feb 9th 2021 at 6:28:27 AM

Care to elaborate?

I still disagree with what you said about only Marge condemning him. I clearly remember everyone under the sun scolding him for what he done.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Feb 8th 2021 at 8:54:58 AM