Small bump, because the discussion kind of randomly petered out yesterday and it hasn't really been resolved...

And while we're figuring out ways to make TRS more accessible, we still need to figure out getting more eyes and hands on IP and the Projects forums, too.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Maybe. I can vote on renames (even if I don't currently do that), I assume that would be a good start? Though would rename discussions receive alerts? From what I can tell, wick cleanups or large alterations would.

As for IP and projects, I take part in them already. Though admittedly, for the latter it's typically pet projects like Characters.Rugrats. Speaking on which do you have time for it now? I've been working on tropes today. No more posts related to it for now after the answer. But if it comes to attracting more people to IP, it's hard to say what to do without being intrusive or spammy due to the fast pace.

Edited by Piterpicher on Feb 4th 2020 at 10:51:10 AM

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

I think a rename project should receive alerts like the other theoretical alerts we'll be using; if a trope is being renamed, it's usually because something is very wrong with the trope and it's a big decision to be made that needs not only a lot of people in the vote, but also a lot of people to help figure out the perfect new name and to move wicks over.

yeah, was way too lazy yesterday to do the characters page. I'll try and get it done tonight.

Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 4th 2020 at 4:44:06 AM

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

So, rename projects would also receive alerts? And if we need a lot of people to help figure out the perfect trope name, it would receive alerts as well? Because from what I can tell, that is what is suggested.

Anyway, making a bulletin for TRS could work. I wonder if there is a limit for how many bulletins there are, though. Here is what I kinda see:

1. Newest renamed/largely changed/cut trope per TRS with a title loudly showing something like "Heroic Albino is getting cut" (updated every time a large decision is announced, maybe have up to 3 at once)
2. List of previously renamed tropes which have to go through wick cleanup (updated weekly?)
3. List of tropes which require a new name to be picked/voting on names (updated weekly?)

Remember, I'm not a TRS regular. I may require correction and don't know how the bulletin feature works completely.

This is an idea related to backlog cleanup (I think you mentioned it once). I know that wick cleanup is disliked because it's manual work without much reward. Maybe make some kind of point system for wick cleaners? Something like "For every 20 wicks to a trope pending deletion/rename you clean, you earn 1 point", with a leaderboard only open for editing by moderators, updated weekly? Enough points on the leaderboard and you win something (the only idea that comes to mind "earn 10000 points and we'll consider giving you moderatorship, though we may still consider others even if they didn't earn that many", because making admins make new badges is pretty much impossible and 200000 wicks cleaned sounds like a fair amount before giving mod tools). Or just have the leaderboard for bragging rights? That said, people could lie about how many wicks they've cleaned up. Please tell me if you think some kind of leaderboard system would work as motivation for tropers looking to clean wicks/work in IP/do other manual repetitive stuff.

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

That sounds good in theory, but then it just turns wick-cleaning and stuff into a popularity contest; people would be less concerned with doing it properly than doing it at all.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Alright, so the leaderboard idea is shut down. I can kinda see why it could reduce people wanting to actually clean wicks with care, they might go too fast and just delete everything/ignore other example errors. I don't know if there would be any other ideas for "pure motivation".

What do you think of my bulletin proposals? Any ideas for what IP could have (I still think it goes a little too fast for a bulletin system)? Or projects? Also, maybe ask a mod to check if there is some hard cap on bulletins (if there's a hard cap for shown indexes and notifiers of 30, it might be 30 here too or might be lower).

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

There is a cap on bulletins, though I believe it might be based on what's put in the note on the sidebar and not the actual bulletin itself, so if we put something like "TRS THREAD BULLETIN 2/20" we might be able to get away with the constant updates.

As for IP and projects, I got nothin', though I do need to acknowledge that the CM thread moves very fast and has a ton of people working on the project, while other cleanup threads are lucky if they have even five regular posters. It's a big imbalance of work and attention, maybe because most of the CM work just involves going " or " (That's not to say the thread doesn't work hard, but it's easy to see why that one is more popular than the threads that involve going out and physically, personally, cleaning the wiki.)

Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 4th 2020 at 5:28:09 AM

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

By "what's put in the note on the sidebar", you mean how long the title of the bulletin is, not how many there are? Or was there some actual note on the sidebar? That sounds rather strange, though I don't remember how they work since it's been a while. I only remember there was the month-day date, the title of the bulletin, and a page you'd be transported to after you clicked on it.

The TRS bulletin idea sounds great, but I don't feel like every single person may be interested, partially because it's an acronym which may not be understood by everyone and partially because a general name may not be instantly noticeable (someone uninterested won't click it and then be shocked it was actually about Heroic Albino, or something). Anyway, if we want to broadcast project threads in bulletins as well, we'll need to decide what kind of threads should we try to publicise. Here's something of a tierlist:

• S: Threads in a league of their own, like Complete Monster.
• A: Threads that get many of posts pretty much daily and make large amounts of progress, like Nightmare Fuel.
• B: Threads that tend to have activity but usually in weekly or monthly at worst intervals, like Roleplay Namespace.
• C: Situational threads which still have their use, like too-long page repair.
• D: Threads which are stagnated, like Positive Discrimination.

I haven't included Projects Short-Term because that's a whole other can of worms.

Which one (maybe two or three) of these tiers would you promote in a bulletin related to projects? I'd probably go with B or C, but what about rotting threads? Should they be retried or just closed?

Edited by Piterpicher on Feb 4th 2020 at 12:56:33 PM

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

As I mentioned in the Outdated Pages thread, I think adding current wick cleanup projects to Administrivia.TRS Wick Cleaning would help to an extent, even if it would only really be visible to people going through the Administrivia index. (Adding a banner to the main page instead of just the discussion page would be even better, but as nombretomado mentioned, only the admins have control over that.)

I'm pretty sure none of the projects on that page are currently on TRS (at least two could easily be moved to Administrivia.Wick Namespace Migration, especially the one for the Disney/ namespace's recent discontinuation). I'm assuming they were sent to the Morgue with unfinished business, so I won't argue for their removal; I mainly think the page should allow the addition of projects that haven't been sent to the Morgue yet.

Granted, this would only help with cleanup and not the decision-making process, but I've seen people claim that TRS is inherently broken, when it seems to me that it really lacks manpower... as in, the reason for this thread's existence.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 6th 2020 at 6:53:49 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

If TRS does end up becoming more active, would it be appropriate to allow the newcomers to reevaluate decisions made earlier? Not necessarily saying that there's anything that needs to be reexamined, I just felt like it's an Elephant in the Room that should be addressed.

Earlier as in "this thread closed months ago but I think a mistake was made" or as in "this thread is in the wick-changing phase, but I think a mistake was made"?

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Either one, but more the former, I'd say. Again, this isn't me endorsing any course of action, just asking a question I thought should be asked.

I only found this thread.

I see two major issues: how to make it more rewarding and perhaps fun, and how to get manpower: more reliable tropers willing to lend a hand.

For the fun/rewarding part: There used to be forum badges for cleaners and other wiki efforts, like writing analysis pages. They don't seem to be in use any more — at least I don't think new medals/badges are awarded. And I'm not sure how effective it really was.

For the second issue: is it possible to "advertise" the tropes in need of major cleanup somewhere on the wiki other than their threads in TRS or Projects?

I think Ask The Tropers is widely read by veteran editors and newbies alike. Though I'm not sure how appropriate this would be. I remember someone advertising their TLP a long, long time ago which got shot down pretty quickly and the troper was told to use only TLP or the TLP Workstation thread. However, if someone asks an honest question about their TLP draft with a link to it on ATT now, it usually gets a fresh dose of feedback and attention from our editors.

---

Also, I remember vividly what got me even more to wiki-editing to the point I wanted to discuss things and help out this community: I got a PM (that green bar used in the old days) for all logged-in editors about It Got Worse (now redirect of From Bad to Worse) and how any help with the cleanup will be appreaciated. The number of wicks was huge, and they were removed in like three days if I remember correctly. I only wish another such message could be sent about Incredibly Lame Pun.

Edited by XFllo on Feb 10th 2020 at 6:21:33 PM

For the advertisement thing, that's why we're talking about using the sidebar announcement thing.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I get that. But the impact seems very small — I know it hasn't been used that much for now, but I'm afraid it won't be read as much as ATT.

I guess, but ATT is for queries, and we don't want to spam the place with this sort of thing. The notification bar is something every troper sees, and if they have interest in these projects they'll pay attention.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Anybody have any thoughts on my question?

It's tricky. Usually if you're coming in before a thread closes to protest the decision, it's too late, and often constitutes a derail. But making a new thread after the fact, so long as you do it properly, shouldn't be an issue.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I guess that makes sense. While I don't think that decisions regarding a wiki's content should be irreversible, there are times and places to dispute them.

TBF, most of the time when it happens, it's someone just coming to complain that a trope was cut because they personally liked it, adding nothing productive to the conversation. However, if someone comes in with a good argument against the decision, they're adding to the discussion; for example, in the process of renaming Conspicuous CG to Three D Effects Two D Cartoon, Midna came in and pointed out that the new name still isn't clear enough, so we held another vote to rename it to 2D Visuals, 3D Effects, despite having already moved a ton of wicks over..

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

For reference:

• Five Bad Band: Several posts here and the following pages.
• The Dragon: Several posts here and the following page.
• Conspicuous CG: Here.
• Evil Albino: Here and the next 2 pages.

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!

Anybody else have any ideas on broadcasting TRS?

I like the idea of bringing back badges for cleanup work.

I like everything suggested here but unfortunately all of these (except for posting AT Ts or on discussion pages, which seemed to be the least popular) involve admin action. And they seem to have other things on their mind generally, given how many minor bugs/wishlist items have been left unfixed since the update a year and a half ago.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

The bulletin is a mod tool, not admin-exclusive.

Bumping. Manually adding links to pages under TRS or IP discussion to replicate the banners that got borked was suggested here. At least people can see that a trope is under discussion and may be willing to provide additional opinions and help out with cleaning.

So Inkblot Cartoon Style, for example, would have a banner at the top like this:

This trope is under discussion in the Trope Repair Shop.

Thoughts?

Edited by Synchronicity on Mar 17th 2020 at 7:14:02 AM