On the subject of pre-release work pages

Okay, you try convincing someone that the cover of the book they just bought isn't part of the work. The Trivia subpage is for information external to the work, not stuff that is literally in the audience's hands when they buy it, or stuff that was designed to encourage the audience to buy it.

Edited by crazysamaritan on Mar 2nd 2019 at 6:06:18 AM

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

If memory serves, this was actually talked about within the Nintendo Direct segment focused on the game, which was less an ad and more an informational video.

That example does need a rewrite, though.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Mar 2nd 2019 at 8:45:49 AM

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There's another thread for questions of what belongs in Trivia, I'm not inclined to debate it here. It's a minor point in any case, it sounds like we agree on the the stuff that's directly relevant to this thread.

Edited by HighCrate on Mar 2nd 2019 at 6:11:22 AM

How much longer until the Yesterday Fridge page gets cut?

Ok, I took time to read the entire thread. I feel I've just witnessed a storm in the teacup, seriously

I agree with this post by Dixar:

"This really seems like trying to find a solution to something that isn't actually a problem. Unreleased works occasionally show up on ATT. When that happens, they can be cleaned up; if that proves to be too much effort, they can be locked. After release, there may need to be minor edits to the page to fix things that were inaccurate in the trailer. It usually takes a day, maybe two. It's what has been happening for literal years and everything has been fine."

and this post by GrigorII:

"Although the pages about unreleased works may cause some problems, think outside the box for a moment: they are one of the highest magnets of new readers, and potential new users. There's probably much more people out there searching pages about a work that is soon to be released, while the hype is still high, than people searching about works that have been released some time ago. If you want to avoid problems, lock the YMMV entry and do not include trope examples (add a disclaimer instead), but have a page about the work anyway."

Also @ Brainulator9 You asked me on page4: "what is it that you don't agree with, by chance?" I've written in my initial message — "I don't think tropes on main pages are misused so often that they should be disallowed completely pre-release." As I understand, you believe the main page should be left completely tropeless.

PS I'm all up for the clean-up thread, and for locking YMMV pages until release.

PS2 I edit MCU pages a lot and I see examples for upcoming films (Endgame, Cap Marvel, new Spider-Man) being removed all the time by tropers as speculations, just like they should be. Even without any clean-up threads. I really don't see what's the deal.

Edited by Asherinka on Mar 3rd 2019 at 4:35:05 PM

Alright. I have decided that whether we want to allow tropes on these main pages or not is something I'm indifferent to.

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Right. Things are fine the way they are.

Agreed. New pages attack views and hyped work does most of the effort in making pages, and things that have to be cut/fixed are the exception.

The issue of pre-release Broken Base and Base-Breaking Character was fixed by giving it a waiting period of six months (any misuse is easily Zapped and a commented out note).

Since we didn't seem interested in giving other tropes waiting periods when I proposed such, how about coming up with a boilerplate to automatically add to new pages? We did this for Pokémon Sword and Shield, which looks like are testing ground for such.

YMMV.Pokemon Sword And Shield

• Alternative Character Interpretation: Not even a week after the games were announced the idea of the female protagonist being a foul-mouthed Violent Glaswegian had taken the fans by storm. See Memetic Mutation below for details.

It note's it's redundant with Memetic Mutation. It seems misused to call it this before we even have the intended interpretation. Cut?

Cut.

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Agreed. youc an hardly have an Alternate Character Interpretation when there isn't even a primary character interpretation yet.

Thank you!

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So that we're sure we're clear, let's apply this new policy to some specific examples. On Pokémon Sword and Shield:

• Console Cameo: A Nintendo Switch can be seen in the protagonist's room.

According to the new policy:

(It is in the best interest of any work page to note that a trope is appearing in a trailer et al if not in the film/TV show/etc. itself. This will also help to avoid dating the work page once the work is post-release.)

At the current time, the game has not been released to the general public. We have no way of knowing whether this trope will appear in the work itself, or only the trailer. Therefore, this entry (and those like it) should be altered to read something like:

• Console Cameo: In the announcement trailer, a Nintendo Switch can be seen in the protagonist's room.

Does that sound right?

Edited by HighCrate on Mar 4th 2019 at 7:19:31 AM

Yes.

Okay. So now let's look at Characters.Pokemon Generation VIII Families. All of the tropes on that page are based solely on the trailer or other pre-release material (interviews, etc.), but they're currently written as though they apply to the game. Should all of those tropes be rewritten to specify that they apply only to the trailer, or whatever other source they come from?

Edited by HighCrate on Mar 4th 2019 at 7:30:18 AM

There are Characterization Tropes and Characters. A trope based on a characterization is presumed to be consistent throughout the work, so to say "Starter Mon: It is the Grass-type based starter of Galar in the trailer" would be absurd. The nature of a Starter Mon isn't going to change from a trailer to a a work in full.

We don't know if the console will appear in the game itself. It's fair to include a note that this is based specifically on an appearance in the trailer.

A question of whether or not a Characterization Trope or other Character-based trope is overly speculative can be mulled over in the clean-up thread.

So you're saying that characterization tropes are assumed to be consistent between promotional material and the final work. What about something like this, under the "Sobble" folder:

• Shrinking Violet: Described as timid, and it immediately hides away in fright just from Grookey's entrance.

Where is it described as timid? When does it hide away in fright? I'm assuming this all comes from the Nintendo Direct. How sure are we that this will hold true in the final game?

Questions like these would be perfect for the clean-up thread.

The prevalent question of this thread has been addressed. Please use the clean-up thread moving forward.

Edited by nombretomado on Mar 4th 2019 at 7:43:22 AM

Okay. So Shrinking Violet requires a source, but Starter Mon does not. What standard are we using to determine which tropes need a source and which don't?

To be candid, it feels like you are trying to poke holes in the decision the mod team has made. A good faith effort can be made to keep character sheets from being too speculative. Citing sources on pre-release examples can be implemented reasonably. You do not have to participate in the clean-up thread, particularly if you feel that the policy detailed above is not clear enough for you to make solid discernment on what crosses the line into unfounded speculation.

Edited by nombretomado on Mar 4th 2019 at 7:48:54 AM