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In order to properly evaluate a Hate Sink candidate, the following questions must be answered.

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What is the work?

State the work and which medium it is a part of, as well as what the work is about.

Who is the character, and what do they do?

State who the character is, and what courses of action they take.

What makes them personally despicable?

State the specific reasons they are despicable, such as petty behaviour and personal villainy.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

State whether or not the character has any traits which get in the way of them being despicable, and if so, whether said traits are de-emphasised in favour of their despicable behaviour.

Verdict?

State whether or not you believe the criteria are met.

In order for this trope to be in effect, the character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author’s declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

Haman the Agagite, for instance, displays qualities of ego, bigotry, and pettiness; additionally, there is a custom of jeering at his name’s mere mention. It goes without saying, according to this thread, that Haman was intended to be despised by the audience. Being a Draco in Leather Pants, like Draco Malfoy, or a character people Love to Hate, like Joffrey Baratheon, doesn’t preclude being a Hate Sink; being a Complete Monster, like Haman, certainly doesn't preclude this trope either.

The main concern is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

With regards to this trope, actions still generally speak louder than words. The format of editing which brings up characters who don't fit the bill, doesn't generally go into enough detail with regards to what makes these characters loathsome.

The entries for this trope should focus on who does qualify, not the characters who do not.

Admittedly, this trope is less complex, but, because a Hate Sink carries out loathsome actions the same way a Complete Monster carries out evil actions, and a Magnificent Bastard carries out clever actions, it is ostensibly necessary to write these entries with a similar structure, albeit usually with a shorter paragraph.

Edited by gjjones on May 28th 2019 at 5:46:22 AM

DemonDuckofDoom Keep away from Pumpkinhead from Some Pond in Hell Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Keep away from Pumpkinhead
Shadao Surprised Satoshi
Surprised Satoshi
Aug 25th 2019 at 1:09:08 AM

[tup] to all the candidates introduced so far.

Now, as I was looking the Animated Film section of Hate Sink, I notice that Scar from The Lion King was removed for quite some time, under the justification that he doesn't really count due to some charismatic attributes. And with the recent photorealistic Lion King out in theaters for quite some time, I think it's about time to properly evaluate Scar once and for all.

If no one is seeking to do him, I may take up the task.

Here's the Sink: Hate Sink Drafts | Hate Sink Dates | Hate Sink To Do Lists | Pending Write-Ups
Kylotrope The Good Doctor
The Good Doctor
Aug 25th 2019 at 1:29:39 AM

I can do it.

That indie game villain I mentioned I'd be doing? Consider that on hold til I get motivation.

Cut them Down and Make them Holy, forgiven on this ground solely
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Zenith Theater Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Draftsman of Doom
Aug 25th 2019 at 2:01:32 AM

Ok, that's four (five counting myself) in favour of a seven entry minimum. Anyone else care to weigh in?

Edited by SkyCat32 on Aug 26th 2019 at 1:49:48 PM

Whoever did this is trying to control us, and it might be a game to him, but to us it's life or death!
Pemulis_128 A 20th Century Boy from Teleporting behind you Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
A 20th Century Boy
Aug 25th 2019 at 4:02:07 PM

Sure to the seven entry minimum.

DemonDuckofDoom Keep away from Pumpkinhead from Some Pond in Hell Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Keep away from Pumpkinhead
Stellarvore Miss me? Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Miss me?
Aug 25th 2019 at 6:39:41 PM

I had a question, Shadao.

My writings
Shadao Surprised Satoshi
Surprised Satoshi
Aug 25th 2019 at 7:02:44 PM

[up] If you're referring to your write-up, it should be in the Drafts or already added in the main page. Hate Sink drafts are in the link on my sig. All write-ups should be added into the Drafts whenever they are done. And, provided they are no needs for edits, they would be put in about every two weeks on average (maybe every week if I have more time to spare).

Edited by Shadao on Aug 25th 2019 at 7:10:53 AM

Here's the Sink: Hate Sink Drafts | Hate Sink Dates | Hate Sink To Do Lists | Pending Write-Ups
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Zenith Theater Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Draftsman of Doom
Aug 25th 2019 at 7:10:33 PM

Stellar wondered about David's entry, from Fear. It may have made it to Live-Action Films, but not to the work page. ~Shadao, you have to make sure entries go on both work pages and media pages. This happened with the tree from Die Hard. We have to make sure it doesn't happen.

[down] Don't worry, I added the entries to the Die Hard pages.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Aug 25th 2019 at 10:14:32 AM

Whoever did this is trying to control us, and it might be a game to him, but to us it's life or death!
Shadao Surprised Satoshi
Surprised Satoshi
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Zenith Theater Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Draftsman of Doom
Aug 25th 2019 at 7:17:19 PM

I think there are enough votes for Joe. Bumping for further weighing in on the seven entry minimum per subpage.

Whoever did this is trying to control us, and it might be a game to him, but to us it's life or death!
DemonDuckofDoom Keep away from Pumpkinhead from Some Pond in Hell Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Keep away from Pumpkinhead
Aug 25th 2019 at 8:00:24 PM

There is, but I like to make sure everybody gets a vote before I do the writeup.

EDIT: Alright, it's been a couple hours, here's the writeup:

  • The Galaxy Invader: Joe Montague is a drunken redneck who is introduced slapping his adult daughter for datung a guy he dislikes. When she slaps him back, he blasts at her with a shotgun, only barely missing. When an alien crashlands near his house, Joe obsessively hunts it down for the money, not caring who gets killed in the process. Soon after the alien kills his supposed best friend, Joe tries to rape her and then shoots her In the Back. His family eventually has enough and tries to leage, so Joe tries to kill them all.

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Aug 25th 2019 at 11:03:11 AM

Ongoing Projects
Stellarvore Miss me? Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Miss me?
Aug 26th 2019 at 8:22:21 AM

Swear I added him in there before already ... but okay, I'll do it again.

My writings
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Zenith Theater Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Draftsman of Doom
Aug 26th 2019 at 10:05:44 AM

Check Live-Action Films for his entry, then add it to the work page.

I also think that the main trope pages should have spoilers off.

Whoever did this is trying to control us, and it might be a game to him, but to us it's life or death!
Stellarvore Miss me? Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
G-Editor 300 episodes aired from Where do you think? Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
300 episodes aired
Aug 26th 2019 at 8:50:46 PM


Hey guys so I’ve been following this thread recently and I thought I give it a try by proposing someone from the movie Bernie, so let’s talk about that for the moment.

What’s The Work?

Bernie is a 2011 Black Comedy film that’s based on the true of Bernie Tiede. Basically the premise revolves around Nice Guy Bernie Tiede becoming Jerkass Marjorie "Marge" Nugent’s companion. However the events of the film Bernie causes him to snap and kill her and the reasons why will be going over with this candidate Marjorie "Marge" Nugent

Who Is She? What She He Done?

Marjorie “Marge” Nugent was a wealthy socialite whose husband recently died just before the events of the film. Marjorie also had an extremely unpleasant personality that gave her a reputation of being a cold, vile, and unsocial woman and was universally despised by the whole town of Carthage.

When the assistant funeral director and the most beloved citizen of Carthage, Bernhardt "Bernie" Tiede, tried to comfort Marjorie in her time of “mourning” she accepted his offer of friendship and became fond his his companionship.

However Marjorie would soon take advantage of Bernie’s inability to be even remotely self-serving, forcing him to run errands for her and do chores for her. She would also chew every bite 25 times, sometime even more, every time she and Bernie ate together just because she knew Bernie disliked it and basked in his discomfort.

Majorie would eventually become extremely abusive and controlling of Bernie, refusing to let him socialize with others, have a personal life and even made him quit his job all so she can have him all to herself, all while she cruelly demeans and insults him constantly.

Then one day she fired her gardener for “stealing” her lawnmower, when he was just getting it fixed before bringing it back. Bernie tried to defend the gardener, only for Marjorie to angrily retort back "why are you defending his kind” (the gardener’s black BTW) and threw a tantrum at Bernie.

Bernie then decided to leave Marjorie until she calms down only for Marjorie to close the gates trapping Bernie and refusing to let him leave, thus becoming nothing more than a soulless property to her. It gets worse later at night when Marjorie forces Bernie to shoot and kill a harmless and adorable armadillo just because it was in her yard and wasn’t doing anything bad.

Eventually Bernie snaps because of the relentless abuse Marjorie subjected him to, grabs a rifle and shoots Marjorie in the back 4 times, killing her, where Bernie realized what he done and showed great remorse in the act. However Bernie to hide the Marjorie’s body in the freezer where she would not be discovered until 9 months later, mostly because nobody cared enough to look for her.

Bernie would then be charged with murdering Marjorie and sentenced to life in prison, thus the town would continue to hate her after her death because she took away of the towns kindest resident.

Is She Likable? Is She Sympathetic?

No she is universally hated entire town at all and she is intentionally made to be as hateful as possible for the audience. She might have been given some as she lost her husband and Bernie felt sorry for and tried to befriend her, but said sympathy is completely destroyed when Marjorie became extremely abusive and possessive towards Bernie eventually causing him to snap, revealing to be nothing more than a spiteful, bitter, and horrible person, who cares for no one but herself, (she didn’t even care that her husband died in the first place as she had an indifferent look on her face during his funeral.

What’s Makes her So Hatable?

What makes her so hatable is her horrific treatment of Bernie which includes trapping him in her property, turning him into her slave, forcing him to kill an adorable armadillo, eventually destroying Bernie’s sanity leading him to snap and kill her, which led to Bernie sent to prison for her murder. Also Marjorie is very racist towards black people and just acts horrible to everyone around her, to the point that no one cared that she was murdered, just Bernie would be sent to prison.

Final Verdict?

I will leave it to you guys.

[down] if you thought that was bad, she told the Gardner to F-off to N-town

Edited by G-Editor on Aug 27th 2019 at 12:25:12 AM

300 more episodes to go.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Zenith Theater Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Draftsman of Doom
Aug 26th 2019 at 8:59:19 PM

[up] "His kind"? Jeez, Marge is an easy keeper!

Anyone else think that we should have a minimum of 7 entries per Hate Sink subpage?. Edited to remove Pseudo-Moderation.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Aug 26th 2019 at 12:01:05 PM

Whoever did this is trying to control us, and it might be a game to him, but to us it's life or death!
DemonDuckofDoom Keep away from Pumpkinhead from Some Pond in Hell Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Keep away from Pumpkinhead
Shadao Surprised Satoshi
Surprised Satoshi
Aug 26th 2019 at 10:42:35 PM

[up][up][up] [tup] to Marge. If you somehow managed to make your killer look sympathetic and the whole town is willingly to not convict him despite being totally guilty, then you are truly a nasty piece of work.

[up][up] And sure, we can do that.

Edited by Shadao on Aug 26th 2019 at 10:46:26 AM

Here's the Sink: Hate Sink Drafts | Hate Sink Dates | Hate Sink To Do Lists | Pending Write-Ups
Kylotrope The Good Doctor
The Good Doctor
Aug 27th 2019 at 7:37:40 PM

What's the work?

The lion king. One of Disney's most iconic animated films. Wich is essentially the result of Disney putting Kimba the white lion and Hamlet in a Blender. Okay okay, on a more descriptive note it's a take on the story of Hamlet but reimagined as a kids film about Talking Animals.

Who's the candidate?

I'll use his CM entry to summarize.

Scar is the envious younger brother of King Mufasa who, upon losing his position as next in line to the throne by the birth of his nephew Simba, sought to take it by force. First tricking the young Simba and his friend Nala into entering the Elephant Graveyard to be killed by his hyena henchmen, Scar next orchestrates a wildebeest stampede and tosses Mufasa to his death after he attempts to rescue his son. Blaming a grief-stricken Simba for his father's murder, Scar forces him into exile before commanding the hyenas to finish him off. Upon taking control, Scar's incompetence as king leads to a famine, with Scar uncaring that he is sentencing everyone to death, even striking Mufasa's widow Sarabi unconscious when she criticizes his rule. Upon Simba's return, Scar takes advantage of Simba's lingering guilt over his father's death to attempt to execute him publicly, pausing only to mockingly reveal his role in Mufasa's death. Later, to save his own life, he attempts to foist the blame on his hyena henchmen before attempting to kill Simba, even after the latter spares his life

What makes him personally Hateable?

He convinces his Nephew that his father's death was his fault, Then after becoming King he becomes a childish Jackass who leads the kingdom to ruin and Abuses his Subjects. Willing to let the whole kingdom die out due to his own pride. Also Mufasas death and Simbas reaction are considered one of the most heartbreaking scenes in a Disney movie.

Freudian Excuse? Complexity?

Zip. The closest thing He has to a redeeming quality is his promises to the Hyenas. But it's abundantly clear he Dosent give a rats ass about them beyond pawns and even tries to pin his crimes on them.

Evil Is Cool?

He starts off with plenty of them. For the first half of the movie he's Smart, funny, charismatic, snarky, and has an epic Villain Song. Then the second half of the film happens, and once he gains power he's shown to be a Smug and cowardly Psychopathic Manchild who on top of being evil is also a Ridiculously incompetent ruler who dies pathetically begging for his life.

Final Verdict

I think he's an easy yeah.

Edited by Kylotrope on Aug 27th 2019 at 7:40:25 AM

Cut them Down and Make them Holy, forgiven on this ground solely
DemonDuckofDoom Keep away from Pumpkinhead from Some Pond in Hell Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Keep away from Pumpkinhead
Aug 27th 2019 at 9:55:13 PM

[tdown] Scar. Still too fun a villain, IMO.

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Aug 27th 2019 at 9:56:20 AM

Ongoing Projects
G-Editor 300 episodes aired from Where do you think? Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
300 episodes aired
Aug 27th 2019 at 10:48:12 PM

ill have to go with DDD and vote [tdown] Scar since he’s too likable to be hated even if he is completely awful. Anymore votes on Marjorie?

Edited by G-Editor on Aug 27th 2019 at 7:49:12 AM

300 more episodes to go.
miraculous I am so tired of this gothic crap from South Africa
I am so tired of this gothic crap
Aug 27th 2019 at 10:49:50 PM

[tup]Marjorie

[tdown]Scar

Just once, I want to meet the villain in a cheerful, brightly lit room. Possibly one with kittens
Shadao Surprised Satoshi
Surprised Satoshi
Aug 27th 2019 at 11:46:36 PM

Scar has always been a very complicated example in that the first half of the film is where he's a very entertaining villain but the second half of the film is where he devolves into The Caligula and whines about everything. It's one of things I remember the Nostalgia Critic pointing out when discussing why Scar is ranked at Number 9 at the Top 11 Disney Villain instead of like Number 5.

But as much as we love to see a Disney villain, we must also remember that Hate Sink is never audience reaction, but author's intent. It's one of the reason why Mysterio got in despite my opinions that he's a fun villain to watch. Based on what I've gathered on Word of God, it seems that Scar was meant to a very different villain compared to the other villains of the Renaissance era:

“When Scar puts the guilt trip on Simba, that’s an intense idea,” allows one of the film’s two directors, Rob Menkoff. “That’s probably something that is not typical of the other Disney pictures, in terms of what the villain does.”

And so is Scar also a departure from Ursula, Gaston or Jafar, all of whom came off at least as buffoonish as they were sinister. Whether he’ll be the breakout character remains to be seen. But “Scar was definitely our favorite character,” says co-director Minkoff.

Now, it's an odd choice to say that Scar lacks the buffoonish quality that other Disney villains had (and keep in mind, this was before Frollo). I'm not sure what their stance were on Scar, but it seems to be a villain who also happens to be their favorite character (but apparently in a Love to Hate fashion). But then again, Ridley is one of my favorite villains because how much of SOB he is towards everybody. That's only half of the analysis. Just like how one half of the Lion King seems to make Scar entertaining and the other half to make Scar really awful.

Recall that there was a deleted scene where Scar made his advances on Nala and then banished her when she refused to be his queen. It's rightfully disturbing, too disturbing that they cut it from the final film (and thus technically no longer canon). Despite that, it was notable enough to make it into the Broadway show and reworked into 2019 remake as Scar making his advances on Sarabi. These scenes are Scar at his worst, and never played for laughs. Despite all of his charisma, schemes and humor, Scar is not someone to root for.

In fact, charisma, schemes and humor is almost absent in the second half of the film. It's like the moment Scar killed Mufasa, the filmmakers decided to make Scar extra awful by having him be Stupid Evil. The Pride Lands didn't become a wasteland because Scar used his evil magic to better suit him. It turned into a wasteland because Scar was too incompetent to manage as king. Then he started whining about his predecessor and getting easily angered whenever anyone criticize him. There was brief humor with Zazu, but the interim scene was mostly focused on Scar's poor leadership and losing support with the hyenas. The only time we ever see Scar scheme in the post-Mufasa world was when he realized that Simba never told the lionesses about the circumstances of Mufasa's death. But that gets undone pretty quickly when Scar arrogantly told the truth to Simba. And whereas most Disney villains would fight the heroes head on, Scar simply let his hyenas fight and slipped away in the confusion like a coward. He begged for mercy and throws his henchman under the bus, and only fights when he realizes that he'll be banished for his crimes. And said fight started with a dirty ember trick.

This second half is hard to ignore, and I'm still waiting on arguments as to why this is not enough to qualify Hate Sink.

Edited by Shadao on Aug 27th 2019 at 11:50:08 AM

Here's the Sink: Hate Sink Drafts | Hate Sink Dates | Hate Sink To Do Lists | Pending Write-Ups

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