Avengers Endgame spoiler thread

forum regular who idolizes Mark Millar & Brain Bendis and thinks the Ultimate Marvel line are the greatest comic books ever written of all time. Likes to intervene in the main Marvel thread whenever people start talking about how bad Ultimate was.

EDIT: pagetopper'd

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on May 26th 2019 at 3:06:31 AM

gotta link to their posts?

New theme music also a box

Who the fuck is Michael Brain Bendis? Is he Brian Michael Bendis's eviler twin brother?

It’s actually his secret identity.

He uses it to rob cakes at the local bake sale.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

he steals as as 40 cakes,that's as many as four 10s.

And thats terrible

New theme music also a box

Isn't kind of rude to talk about a troper behind their backs? I think we should drop this right now before things get too heated.

Edited by chasemaddigan on May 26th 2019 at 6:34:42 AM

Yeah I was mostly cracking a light joke that I thought everyone was in on and it's sort of spiraling.

They're right.

There's nothing terrible about stealing 40 cakes. I'd steal three times that amount if I could.

...

What?

...oh right, the other thing. Yeah, lets not do that.

...this one is gonna be trouble, but...

I know they said Carol is the strongest character in the MCU, but while I like Carol, I still don't quite know if I buy it.

I'm not sure if I could see her as stronger than an in shape Thor wielding Stormbreaker (as opposed to how he was before the time skip). The biggest thing she has in her favour is tanking Grimace's headbutt.

Thanos and Thor never have an extended fight when both are at their best (Thor at the end of Ragnarok / beginning of Infinity War lacks his hammer and was not his best; Thanos near the end of Infinity War / beginning of Endgame was caught off guard and slowly dying respectively.

Even at the end of Endgame when they face off, Thor is still damned fat and only back in the game mentally and has to dual wield Mjolnir and Stormbreaker to kinda make up for that, but Thanos has no stones either.

Carol never fights him in a prolonged struggle either, focusing more on just keeping him from using the stones, but he does resort to a cheap shot to get her off his back.

Still with none of the players focused on fighting or at their best, it's hard to gage from my point of view.

One Strip! One Strip!

I think the two strongest Avengers are Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch, considering they're the only two characters we've ever seen outright overpower Thanos. Given that both of their powers come from an Infinity Stone, that makes sense.

Peter Quil might be stronger than them if he's tapping into his Ego powers, but supposedly the source of those powers was Ego himself, so it should be impossible.

Peter could possibly tap into the Celestial light again, but it took Ego millions of years to learn how to use it and he had to stockpile a lot in his planetary body first. Peter's body is too small to hold any significant amount of Celestial energy, and as far as we know he won't live longer than an average human.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 26th 2019 at 5:36:18 AM

Just saw Endgame, and I've got a question that I'm certain has been asked and answered already, but damn if I'm gonna go through 100+ pages looking for it.

So, according to the Ancient One, monkeying about in the past only creates a new timeline if one of the Infinity Stones is removed. So if make a trip to the past and bring back something other than an Infinity Stone, it's not gonna create an alternate reality where that thing suddenly disappeared.

And we see with Gamora that, despite the Soul Stone sacrifice being all mystical and permanent, it doesn't prevent the sacrifice being brought from the past to the present, skipping over their death and leaving them walking around alive.

So, given that, and given that they've now got a functionally unlimited supply of Pym particles, why not go back in time, grab Natasha from before her death, and bring her to the present? And maybe do the same for Tony? Or, heck, for anyone they particularly care to have around and not dead anymore?

Probably because doing so would screw over that world.

Gamora's case was unique since she didn't choose to come forward herself, nor can she return anyway (plus, due to the time when Thanos left, it arguably helped that universe.

That's not the case with removing Natasha or Tony from the past.

One Strip! One Strip!

Taking an Infinity Stone isn't the only thing that creates an alternate timeline, it just royally screws over the one it was taken from.

Note how Cap made a point to take back Mjolnir in addition to the stones.

This song needs more love.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 26th 2019 at 8:02:30 AM

No, taking an Infinity Stone would create a split timeline and then doom that timeline. Just changing something would only create a split timeline from theirs. Like when Loki escaped. Or when Thanos and his armies were turned to dust.

But, again, it only screws over that world if you're bringing an Infinity Stone back to the present with you. According to the Ancient One, that's the only way a new reality actually gets created. Otherwise, the past you visit remains part of the same timeline that you left from, though any changes you made in the past somehow don't carry over to the present.

If any changes you make to the past create a new timeline, then it shouldn't have been possible for Steve to return to the timelines they already altered. He'd be bringing the Time Stone back to 2012, but it'd be a 2012 without any other time-traveling Steves to take the Time Stone away from it in the first place.

Or, if he could get back to that timeline, he wouldn't actually be fixing that timeline by returning the Infinity Stone, but just splitting the timeline yet again: one where he returns the Infinity Stone, and one where he doesn't.

Edited by RavenWilder on May 26th 2019 at 8:08:27 AM

Just so we all have a point of reference:

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 26th 2019 at 8:12:29 AM

Except that Tony Stark invented a "time-space GPS." I'm assuming that's what's allowing them to get back to their original timeline at the point right after they left.

If changes to the timeline didn't create alternate timelines, then nothing makes sense. Because there are only two options the film presents: that changing the past changes the present (which is wrong, as Hulk states) or changing the past results in a split timeline. If changing the past results in nothing happening to the present, that's actually a paradox, because either something would change or nothing in the past could be changed (which we know isn't true).

So it has to be split timelines. Otherwise, changing the past wouldn't be possible.

Changing the past creates a split timeline, but undoing that change or putting things back where they were puts them back on track with the original timeline.

My various fanfics.

The impression I got is that, no matter how much you change in the past, the instant you return to the present, everything reverts to how it would have been if you never time traveled. Like playing a video game without a save function.

The Avengers travel back to 2012, and as a result of their monkeyshines, Loki escapes with the Tesseract. But once the Avengers leave 2012, Loki will reappear in custody on Earth, the Tesseract will return to Thor's possession, and no one will remember anything happening differently from how it happened the first go around.

That would explain how Old Steve returned to 2023 without going through the time machine. He went back to the 40's, had a long and happy life with Peggy, presumably changing history a great deal as a result. Eventually, he lives long enough to reach 2023 again, and goes to sit on that bench near where he remembers traveling back in time. Naturally, there's no time machine there, and no Hulk or Bucky or Sam. But he sits there and, once he reaches the exact moment in time when he first left for the past, he is officially no longer in "the past", but back in what should, for him, be "the present". And once that moment arrives, the world around him changes, everything reverting back to how it would be had he never arrived in the past. From his perspective, the time machine and the other Avengers would suddenly appear out of nowhere, while from their perspective, there's suddenly an old man sitting on the bench who wasn't there before.

That's the explanation that most seems to jibe with how time travel is explained and presented in the movie, anyway.

It’s actually been confirmed that Steve went to an alternate Earth past & when Peggy died he decided to come back to his original realm.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

If that's true, why did Old Man Steve appear on a park bench instead of coming out through the time machine?

Not theatrical enough.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Because he's dramatic

He somehow set it up with Bucky ahead of time, just to be Extra

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

Keep in mind that the writers and directors appear to be arguing over the time travel mechanics. One says that the only thing that splits the timeline is removing the Infinity Stones, and putting them back merges them again. The other says any time travel splits the timeline.

This leads into the conflicting explanation for Steve. The first Word of God is that Steve lived out his life with Peggy in the main timeline, every previous movie had an old Steve just hanging out in the background avoiding his younger self because he couldn't interfere. The second Word of God is that Steve lived with Peggy in an alternate timeline, probably fixed a bunch of stuff like HYDRA, and then returned to his original timeline at the end. Appearing on the bench is simply Rule of Drama.