The criteria for Unintentionally Unsympathetic says:
"When a character's supposed insecurities or embarrassing quirks are supposed to inspire sympathy, but fail to impress the audience because they're mishandled or plain written badly. It can be made even worse if they have to learn a lesson. Without being at least somewhat invested in the characters, the audience might have passed the point of caring when the character finally comes around."
This is the basic criteria of the trope. There is more after but I am not sure what was present from the start and what was edited in afterwords to expand the definition. This trope is becoming more popular, with the page starting to be split-off into sub pages and such. And like all popular YMMV tropes this is causing an influx of bad examples that are probably just one-sided complaining, shoehorning, and bashing which is not in the spirit of this wiki. You can see this is causing issues just by looking at the pages discussion thread. I felt that the trope needed a dedicated cleanup thread. This way edits can be done without causing edit wars and getting people banned.
Some guidelines if a character or event is Unintentionally Unsympathetic.
1. It has to be unintentional on the authors part. It is in the title. All examples that were intentional on the author's part are disqualified by definition.
2. The example should state exactly why the author or narrative intended the subject to have been sympathetic and why it failed to resonate with the audience. If the example can not clearly state these two points, it is a bad example and needs to at minimum be rewritten.
3. Neutral tone: No insults. I know it is fun to complain about stuff but complaining is not in the spirit of the wiki. So long as one side isn't promoting hate speech examples should be written without taking a side. Examples that are heavily favoring one side or insulting the other side are probably not valid examples.
4. There should be a wide accepted disagreement between the audience and the author to be a valid example. By that I mean that there should be large consensus in the audience disagreeing with the author over why the character is unsympathetic instead of sympathetic. If the audience is too divided and one section thinks agrees with the author and the other doesn't, the example could be a pet peeve of a single person, which isn’t noteworthy.
Lastly, always consider Square Peg, Round Trope and be mindful if the example may fit better under a different trope such as Base-Breaking Character, Broken Base, and The Scrappy. Please visit other cleanup threads if you have questions about tropes that do not involve Unintentionally Unsympathetic.
Feel free to help if you spot some bad examples or can point out more rules for the trope. Or argue with me over the definitions, this is a cleanup thread after all.
MOD NOTICE: As of October 26, 2022, this thread now covers Unintentionally Sympathetic as well.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 26th 2022 at 8:15:48 AM
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I don't think any of those examples are worth keeping because none of them explain how the characters were supposed to be sympathetic.
F1 the robot
@Grotadmorv Yeah, but at the end, D.W. still gives an extremely Backhanded Apology for breaking the plane. While she might have been intended to be sympathetic at the moment that Arthur actually hit her, when I put myself in the writers' shoes when they wrote the ending, I really cannot understand how they expected the audience to still be sympathetic towards D.W. when she shows absolutely no remorse for what she did, because that behavior is very clearly and objectively not sympathetic (not to mention that D.W. isn't meant to be sympathetic in the first place in most episodes save for this one and a few others like "D.W.'s Very Bad Mood").
On a semi-hiatus from this site due to being busy with other things (may contribute here and there, but nothing major).
Goku Black
Btw from Takeshi Kovacs
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Takeshi often achieves this since his refusal to believe in anything but Quellist doctrines (that are basically angry at everything and everyone) makes him sneer at bad and good characters equally. He's also prone to actions which frequently kill morally gray characters on behalf of other ones.
This reads kinda weird. It doesnt sound unintetional and its kinda vague about why the sympathy is intended. Ive never read it but he could just be a morally gray Anti-Hero.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cut for failing to explain how it's unintentional.
Found this in Steven Universe under Unintentionally Unsympathetic
Greg has never taken Steven to a hospital. Not once in 16 years has he seen a doctor and even Dr. Maheswaran is genuinely shocked when she hears this. Half alien baby or not, that is just gross negligence from a father.
Nothing in this episode even paint any form of sympathy and it just a thing that happen. Im going to remove
I imagine the troper who added that was the same one that went on a tangent about Greg being a terrible parent for not doing anything about something he didn't know about in the SU thread?
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the person who added was called Codafett. Their edit reason even mentioned it was a controversial take.
Can i remove it?
Yes, please do.
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Knows-Many-Things
I don't see why it needs to be removed, it's not like there's a general trope for negligence I can throw in. Also, stop assuming that anyone who complains about something is the same person. I was never in whatever thread you're mentioning.
Edited by Codafett on Mar 20th 2020 at 9:32:54 AM
Find the Light in the Dark
That's not something I usually do, I just mentioned it because both events were close together. Sorry for assuming such.
Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Mar 20th 2020 at 12:38:57 PM
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- Steven's arc involves how the various factors in his life have ultimately left him severely broken, emotionally stunted, and on the cusp of a mental breakdown. However, because of his own personality, he refuses to admit to having an issue and instead proceeds to make things worse or outright create problems, then doubles down under the rationale that letting his emotions out caused the problem. Whenever people try to reach out to him, he instead either denies having any problems or lashes out at them, berating Greg for how he was raised and lashing out at the Gems when they express concern. As such, some find it hard to sympathize with Steven since he's ultimately the cause of his own issues, and refuses to accept help when people offer it.
I feel like this was written mostly in response to the episodes that aired last night. Steven lashes out because he's hurting and doesn't know how to deal with it, and refuses the help of others because he believes he isn't worth their effort or that they can't help him.
Plus I feel like saying a character with PTSD the narrative explicitly states a majority of comes from events out of his control caused his own issues is a bit... yikes.
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Delete it. Steven is suffering from events from last series and it is hard to handle. Can you imagine saying this yo a war vet you suffered from the war and doesn't know how to handle things?
Knows-Many-Things
You don't have to delete these things, just rewrite them. That guy put a lot of effort into that, besides why are we using this forum as an organized Steven Universe clean up? Not even a "we" really, just you two.
Find the Light in the Dark
It's not whether someone puts alot of work on it, If it's being misused, it's being misused.
Edited by WhirlRX on Mar 21st 2020 at 2:30:13 PM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I guess the question is, are there fans who find Steven's attitude and actions unsympathetic- and are they only reacting to a single episode, or not?
While it may be pretty bad to claim at a PTSD-laden character is responsible for the problems their experiencing thanks to said PTSD, I think we need to put our own opinions aside and judge solely if fans actually do have this reaction.
I mean, am I a fan of what this example is claiming about PTSD? No. But does that change the possibility that there are fans who feel this way? No.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
There’s also the matter if whenever the entry is exaggerating, misinterpreting, or lying about the events and characters too.
Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
There's no need to be hostile. Cleanups like this barely get any activity anyway unless someone sees something that either sets off alarms or is from a work they're into. Whirl responding as fast as they did actually surprised me.
I'm pretty sure this was added in response to reactions from the two most recent episodes in particular. As for fan reaction in general... I haven't been in the fandom at large for a few years, so I can't say. Perhaps I should bring this up in the SU thread and see if anyone there would like to chime in?
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Whoops, should have checked here first but I deleted the Steven Universe entry. Sorry about that.
In case you want to put it back this was the latest iteration:
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Steven's arc involves how the various factors in his life have ultimately left him severely broken, emotionally stunted, and on the cusp of a mental breakdown. However, because of his own personality, he refuses to admit to having an issue and instead proceeds to make things worse or outright create problems, then doubles down under the rationale that letting his emotions out caused the problem. Whenever people try to reach out to him, he instead either denies having any problems or lashes out at them, berating Greg for how he was raised and lashing out at the Gems when they express concern. He even implies that his mom and dad deserved to be abused by their respective parental figures. As such, some find it hard to sympathize with Steven since he's ultimately the cause of his own issues, and refuses to accept help when people offer it.
I killed it because of that "implied his mom and dad deserved to be abused" line, which is GREATLY misinterpreting the episodes. Honestly I just think the YMMV needs a timeout until the show finishes next week, let's see how they wrap this all up before adding tropes like this.
Mostly because this entry has been edited at least four times by different people today alone and every addition just makes it worse.
Edited by Stage7-4 on Mar 21st 2020 at 11:42:09 AM
The potholes around "his own personality" are also grevious misinterpretation and I hate them.
Thanks for suggesting it needs a timeout, as I realized there's a chance it's not confined to this work in particular and so I suggested something be done in the "No Recent Examples Please" cleanup
.
Goku Black
Just kill the entry with fire.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RebelFalcon re-added it, so we're in edit war territory now. Made an ATT reporting them.
Meanwhile on Fire Emblem Three Houses, the tropers are in an edit war over this. One re-added entries on Rhea and Edelgard which were then cut again citing they were redundant due to the broken base entries on said characters and were walls of text.
In response the same troper (Wolf Thunder) decided to cut the remaining Leonie entry seemingly out of spite, claiming that the hatred towards the character isn't as intense as it used to be.
Recommending the Leonie entry be restored.
The entry in question.
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Leonie's support chain with Byleth has earned a decent amount of criticism due to Leonie's frustrations at Byleth's lack of knowledge about Jeralt's life. She acts very hostile, accusing them of taking their father Jeralt for granted, and when she attempts to apologize in the B-support, she loses her temper again in the end. The fact that this support can often happen after Jeralt dies comes across as extremely poor taste, as she makes the issue about herself and doesn't even remotely try to console Byleth. While Jeralt is an important mentor for Leonie, she comes across as very entitled about him, especially since she still has a living father. She also has the highly-irritating habit of attributing any skill Byleth has to be because of Jeralt and it takes a lot of prodding for her to acknowledge Byleth is skilled in their own right. She also acts quite abrasively to Marianne in their C-Support over Marianne not wanting to go to town with her and unlike Lysithea in her C-Support with her, she doesn't apologize for it until their B-Support.
It needs to explain why they were supposed to be sympathetic despite the circumstances. If the circumstance were the Support mechanics, please start the entry by explaining it so those unfamiliar with Support can understand then add it back. (Popularity is irrelevant to this trope as it can be myopic.)
As for the Steven Universe example: I say re-cut as 1. the majority of this thread approved the cut and it was added back without approval. 2. It fails to explain how that unsympathetic stuff was unintentional as opposed to an intentional flaw. Objections?
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Mar 22nd 2020 at 1:03:11 AM
Unfortunately a lot of supports in this game start out with characters hostile towards each other, so I can't use that defense.
I'll rewrite it to focus more on Leonie is grieving for the loss of her beloved mentor and criticizing someone she feels takes him for granted when she lacked a figure like that in her life. It's just that person being his own child is crossing a line.
As for Steven Universe Future that's on a separate thread but I'm still in favor of cutting it for now. At least until after the finale next week.
Edited by Stage7-4 on Mar 22nd 2020 at 2:24:48 AM
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As written, they sure look delete-worthy.
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