A thread discussing similar tropes. If thread participants agree that two (or more) tropes really don't seem distinct enough to be separate, one can start a thread in the Trope Repair Shop for further discussion.
Before asking "What's the difference between these tropes?", check the Canonical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions and Laconical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions lists. They may contain the answer. Feel free to contribute to them, too.
I've decided to start a new cleanup thread dealing with trope similarities. This thread is for discussing tropes that appear to be a duplicate of another trope, and if it's agreed upon that the two tropes talked about are similar enough, one should start a thread about it in the Trope Repair Shop.
I'll start with my issue...
Asian Hooker Stereotype and Mighty Whitey and Mellow Yellow are pretty much the same trope—they both involve a white man and an Asian woman.
Edited by Tabs on Nov 1st 2022 at 10:57:37 AM
(she/her)
So more like Quest For The Artifact then?
Macron's notes
Is it like a non-existent trope? I can't really say.
(she/her)
It's not a trope. I was just using it to describe the concept. Fatal Macguffin isnt a very clear name for the trope if the focus is more on the heroes/villains trying to get it and not so much the object itself
Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 9th 2020 at 4:57:21 AM
Macron's notes
That doesn't sound like a good enough distinction to make.
If I get you right, Fatal Macguffin is when the Macguffin is revealed to be an Artifact of Death, whereas AOD's examples tend to be known for the start as a "horror" so that few people would actually want it?
We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
The focus is not on the quest for the item, or at least, not specifically. A trope that was just 'characters search for a thing' would be incredibly broad.
This a classic MacGuffin with a twist at the end. Multiple parties are questing for something without necessarily knowing what it does. For example, in Raiders of the Lost Ark, the Nazis wanted the Ark because they hoped they could turn it into a weapon. Indy just wanted to keep it out of the hands of the Nazis. It was only when the Nazis obtained the Ark and attempted to activate its power did they learn that it would destroy them all.
The essential elements of Fatal MacGuffin are: object (possibly object of power) multiple parties are trying to obtain (so not random thing stumbled on); no knowledge that possessing the object will kill them (unlike an Artifact of Death), although they may know that it is dangerous; and that the object winds up killing the person or persons who claim it.
To distill it down further: artifact (usually shrouded in myth); active quest (usually by multiple parties) to obtain it; claiming leads to death of the 'victor'.
Is that clear enough?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Fatal Macguffin Reveal.
You need that for the title.
We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
What is the difference between Beneath the Mask and Hidden Depths? Asking because of this: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=85772&type=lnf
Beneath the Mask is when the character actively tries to hide what they truly are. Hidden Depths is simply the characteristics that the character doesn't show often, for various reasons.
We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
...
What's the difference between Son of a Whore and Single Mom Stripper?
Edited by Pichu-kun on Mar 17th 2020 at 6:27:22 AM
- The former's about a child's and their mother's vocation, the latter is about the mom's relationship and work statuses.
Son of a Whore implies uncertain parentage, that the child is probably the offspring of one of their mother's johns. The mom had a kid because of the sex work.
Single Mom Stripper is a woman who became a sex worker to support her kids.
...
How does Like Goes with Like differ from Token Minority Couple?
I think a lot of Son of a Whore examples should be moved to Single Mom Stripper.
Edited by Pichu-kun on Mar 19th 2020 at 6:24:38 AM
You could be right; I was going off of trope descriptions, didn't delve into the examples.
I don't know why the title is so unclear that it's specifically about racial couples. I mean, we have Birds of a Feather already.
(she/her)
Like Goes with Like is about two characters of the same race being paired together (usually in Love Triangle situations) even though they are love interests of other races around.
Token Minority Couple don't have to be of the same race though (just two people from a minority group) and Like Goes with Like includes white couples.
And yeah the name for the former is way too broad.
Macron's notes
...
Isn't that just Token Minority Couple under Tailor-Made Partner?
Yeah, Like Goes with Like sounds like a synonym to Birds of a Feather.
How to distinguish All for Nothing from "Shaggy Dog" Story?
My example is from Under the Silver Lake where the hero goes to great length to find his love interest who's gone missing. He eventually finds her but she chooses not to be with him. Currently on the page, this example is listed under both tropes but that seems redundant.
Edited by eroock on Mar 22nd 2020 at 12:19:25 PM
I'm helping!
A "Shaggy Dog" Story builds up tension for the express purpose of deflating it with an anticlimax.
All for Nothing seems to be a situation when a story arc gets resolved, then later events undo this resolution or otherwise make it irrelevant.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
That definition would steer the example into the direction of a "Shaggy Dog" Story.
I'm helping!
If it's meant to be tragic rather than comedic, I'd say it's Shoot the Shaggy Dog.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
I'd say it's a valid subtrope. Describing what changes in relationships can end up with a lot of detail mentioned.
The major difference is that the Fatal MacGuffin has been the object of the quest: that the entire (or at least majority) of the plot has been about there search. And there is generally no indication that achieving the MacGuffin is fatal. The seekers are not looking for it as a means of committing suicide.
Additionally, just messing with the artifact may not be enough to cause death (e.g. Indy and Marion survive the opening of the Ark despite being present). It should be the gaining/opening/activating/etc. that triggers death.
Basically, win the race for the artifact, lose your life.
Edited by foxley on Mar 9th 2020 at 7:24:00 PM