Condemned by History cleanup thread

At the same time, I haven't heard many people shit on Drake and Josh even though it's got both the Schneider stuff and everyone's favorite Mariachi singer, Drake Bell.

That's probably helped by Josh Peck being pretty beloved.

What even happened with Drake anyway? I know something bad happened but not what it was exactly.

Would Zoey 101 count as Condemned by History? At the time it was critically acclaimed, but nowadays any time it's brought up people usually talk about the Dan Schneider controversy, the Jaime Lynn Spears pregnancy, or how Alexa Nikolas was treated behind the scenes.

He got exposed for grooming kids, among other things.

We do have Fallen Creator over in Darth Wiki for specific creators.

Edited by harryhenry on Aug 14th 2022 at 6:19:01 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I can gather, Fallen Creators can still be well liked for early contributions.

For example, despite M Night Shyamalan's reputation, The Sixth Sense is still considered a good film with a great twist. He's also not CBH for the same reason, and people are still willing to consider him the film's director.

A Fallen Creator can be a CBH creator if:

• All their work is actively derided
• If their work is not derided, people go out of their way to invoke My Real Daddy

Dan Schneider might be CBH, similar to how John K. is, but regardless, I think he's definitely a Fallen Creator.

Of course, the Fallen Creator page is perma-locked, so adding Schneider to it would require consensus.

Would you say The Boys counts as CBH? Pretty much everyone derides it as a an edgelord ditribe with little substance or understanding of the genre, and much like Ready Player One most praise is at the TV series for downplaying the bad elements of it and refinining it.

Edited by generation81 on Aug 15th 2022 at 10:29:28 AM

The Boys just ended didn't it?

The original comic ended somewhere around 2012 according to the page.

So, good to go?

We just gotta determine if it was hated back then or was at least mixed.

Is it hated now?

People generally regard the show as vastly superior, and deride the comic as edgelord nonsense now.

It definitely wasn't hated back then, because it ran for 72 issues.

There's a backlash in general about Ennis' stuff nowadays, which was popular at the time and inspired lots of adaptations (Preacher, The Boys, and the 2004 Punisher movie was partly inspired by his Punisher MAX stuff). It's part of a larger reaction to such edgy, dark content where it's not enough for people to say they're no longer into such things, they have to pretend it was always bad and they never "really" liked it.

His Diabolical episode was good, at least, but yeah, most of his other stuff has not aged very well.

Is Ennis still working? If not, would he be good for this trope?

Otherwise, the various comics can be listed as subbullets under his name

Edited by Paperfly on Aug 15th 2022 at 2:59:34 AM

I don't think Punisher Max counts. That one still receives praise even now.

While most people seem to agree that The Boys (2019) TV series is better than comic, I've seen some people opine that the show should've used a Villain of the Week (or rather Hero of the week) format like the comic. Plus, the episode of Diabolical that Ennis wrote was pretty well received and it was Truer to the Text than the series.

Edited by SharkToast on Aug 15th 2022 at 3:16:47 AM

Ennis is definitely not condemned by history. The backlash I've personally seen against his work isn't even really about the edgy nature of it so much as it is his Irrational Hatred for superheroes specifically.

Could you make a case for his work being Seinfeld Is Unfunny? I'm not familiar with any of his works, so I personally can't.

Would the Kinect count as being CBH? When it was released it was a sales darling with many looking forward to its potential in the industry despite some messy presentations, and became a go-to family gaming device. However as years went by and apart from Just Dance and Dance Central the Kinect never really found its footing in terms of games and people began to see it as more gimmicky than anything else, especially when the Wii found creative ways to integrate motion controls while still having good games. When the Xbox One was announced to have forced Kinect, it became one of the biggest red flags of the console that already had a lot of them, and when Microsoft had to do damage control they specifically outed the Kinect being no longer required as a talking point. Not helping was how a game for the Kinect was essentially a codeword for shovelware to most people.

Eh? AFAIK people never really liked the Kinect. At most people though it would be better than it is, but initial hype for an unreleased product isn't the same as actually liking the product.

This is just my experience but I hated the Kinect even back in the day. I thought it was cool at first but when I hurt my back playing Sonic Free Riders (one of the worst games I have ever played) and couldn't finish the story mode due to the horrendous controls, I swore off Kinect for good.

I think a lot of hardcore gamers back in the day who backed the Xbox 360 were alienated by how Microsoft tried to push the Kinect so hard in response to the Wii and that's partially why Sony was able to reclaim their dominance in the console market towards the end of the 7th generation.

Yes, it sold well, especially compared to Sony's own attempt to cash in on the Wii's success, the PlayStation Move, but it wasn't enough to match the stratospheric sales numbers of the Wii, and I don't think hardcore gamers ever liked the Kinect, especially since it led to Rare's stint of being a Kinect Sports factory and many of the games for the device just straight-up sucked.

Hell, an entire E3 conference Microsoft held for the Kinect is listed under So Bad, It's Horrible so the Kinect definitely had a hatedom even back in the day despite high sales.

TL;DR No it doesn't count.

Edited by supernintendo128 on Aug 16th 2022 at 9:49:08 AM