Condemned by History cleanup thread

John K is a textbook example of Fallen Creator. As he is not, himself, a work or genre, he cannot by definition fit under OBC or DTD.

If only works/genres can be DTD, why are there people in Comic Books, Stand up Comedy, Professional Wrestling, and Music?

Comic Books, Stand up Comedy, Professional Wrestling, and Music are all works.

If the entries focus on the works, they're good entries.

If not, they should be rewritten or cut.

For example, if Ren and Stimpy were the subject of widespread backlash due to the John K scandals, it might be an example of DTD.

It hasn't, though. It's still the subject of widespread nostalgia, despite the fact that one of its key creators turns out to have been kind of a dickbag.

You might argue for Overshadowed by Controversy due to the fact that John K being kind of a dickbag tends to come up whenever Ren and Stimpy does, but it's still Ren and Stimpy that's OBC (or not), not John K. We don't trope people that way. We trope works.

Edited by HighCrate on Oct 8th 2020 at 10:25:24 AM

But shouldn't people from those aforementioned categories be removed, since they're not works?

And then there's Lance Armstrong under Sports. Should that be rewritten to be more about his career?

Would Chloroflurocarbons count?

CFCs were widely used as a refrigerant and a propellant until it was discovered that they were depleting the ozone layer. Then in 1987 they were banned under the Montreal Protocol and replaced with less harmful chemicals.

Not a work, genre, or fad, so I'm unsure if this would fit. But it does meet the remaining criteria.

The whole thing feels like a Science Marches On to me. By that logic, should, say, radium (which was used for health drinks as well as glow-in-the-dark products before the adverse effects of radiation killed the trend, for example) count?

Edited by Coolnut on Oct 17th 2020 at 10:44:29 AM

Probably...

Well, I put it up for now. We'll see.

That's a bit hasty. I think we need a discussion on the whole issue of just how far a thing can be from the normal focus of this site and still count - I always sort of looked askance at the Architecture and Automobiles sections (which have since been cut for, IIRC, unrelated reasons) but at least those are still both technically forms of creativity. But chemicals??

Yeah I'm pretty sure chemicals aren't tropable. On top of that, isn't the meaning of this trope "thing was once popular, but is now despised?" Because I don't think chemicals can qualify for "once popular" using the definition this thread has used. People would have to have universally liked the chemical, which I don't think is possible for something like a chemical that isn't a creative work of any sort. I would suggest not adding the example.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Oct 18th 2020 at 11:04:43 AM

Both CFCs and radium are already up there (the latter which I admittedly added). Should I cut them or comment them out for now?

Edit: Aaaaand they're gone.

Edited by Coolnut on Oct 18th 2020 at 11:54:21 AM

I would recommend cutting for now, per my explanation and the explanations of other tropers. If the thread decides they can be re-added, go ahead, but for now just cut.

Yeah, one of the issues with tropes like these is that people try to use them for everything under the sun, no matter how random it is.

I've looked at the New Media part and I'm not really sure that Tumblr counts as DTD since people still use the site despite what happened two years ago that prompted people to jump ship to Twitter, Reddit and others.

Yeah people still use Tumblr. I don't, but I know someone who does and from what I have gathered from them, there are still Tumblr users. Cut.

Tumblr is definitely still active. It's OBC more than anything.

Most likely like that. I have deleted the Tumblr entry; it had poor formatting anyway.

Anime/light novel example to debate: Oreimo. I remember it being hugely popular in the early tens, but now it's hardly if ever brought up and a lot of fans are now ashamed they liked "the incest anime". However, I don't know if it's too recent to qualify.

Potholed example, South Park S 21 E 2 Put It Down, under Hilarious in Hindsight:

• Fidget spinners seem even lamer and less effective as a treatment for severe anxiety now that the fad has run its course.

Do fidget spinners count as Deader Than Disco? I'd argue they probably could, because they're never described in any context but a snarky one now, but I wanted to check here. I feel they were Snark Bait even during the fad. (Plus I suspect that fidget toys are still popular with the actual neurodivergent population who needs them, though some of us are still embarrassed out of using them publicly.)

Edited by mightymewtron on Dec 16th 2020 at 11:46:32 AM

Does the "angry reviewer" genre count? It's much less popular than it used to be, but I'd argue that the popularity of the AVGN suggests that it's not truly DTD - early episodes are still fondly remembered, and I wouldn't say that the show got that much more analytical as it went on. I don't know about the NC because I've never been a big fan of him, but I imagine that the situation for him is similar.

(Also, the entry argues that viewers began to see "angry" reviews as "produced in bad faith, and that most of their points consisted of nitpicky, half-baked hot takes rather than any actual analysis". I don't know to what degree that's the problem — on the one hand, I recall The Irate Gamer getting backlash for that reason, but on the other hand, a lot of people think that's an accurate description of CinemaSins, and that channel is still popular.)

...As somebody who would very badly like for that sort of thing to be Deader Than Disco, I certainly don't think I'm qualified to offer an objective opinion here.

Shouldn't there be a timeframe to determine whether or not something has truly gone Deader Than Disco?

AVGN is still well-liked. The Nostalgia Critic's reputation is dead in the water, but that's more due to the whole Change the Channel fiasco (with some help from the review of The Wall) than anything else. People still watch Cinema Sins too. "Angry reviewers" are not dead.

Also the example is very complain-y. Easy cut.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Dec 31st 2020 at 9:40:45 AM