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A thread for discussing representation and diversity in all kinds of media. This covers creators and casting decisions as well as characters and in-universe discussions.

Historical works and decisions are in-scope as well, not just recent news.

Please put any spoilers behind tags and clearly state which work(s) they apply to.

    Original OP 
For discussing any racial, gender, and orientation misdoings happening across various movies and the film industry today.

This week, producer Ross Putnam started a Twitter account called "femscriptintros", where he puts up examples of how women are introduced in the screenplays he's read. And nearly all of sound like terrible porn or are too concerned with emphasizing said lady is beautiful despite whatever traits she may have. Here's a Take Two podcast made today where he talks about it.


(Edited April 19 2024 to add mod pinned post)

Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 19th 2024 at 11:45:51 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#24276: Feb 13th 2020 at 2:37:12 PM

Teen Vogue had an article about it a while back.

The short version is that it comes off as "I'm not like other girls", but arguably more racially coded and not being so rebellious when everyone is doing it.

Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#24277: Feb 13th 2020 at 2:43:56 PM

[up](x8) I hate the trope but Gogo is one example that I think gets critiqued unfairly. She would probably have the streak no matter her ethnically.

[up](x7) It's annoyingly common. I've seen people justify it as being due to it originating from sci-fi/futuristic works that depict China/Japan, it being Delinquent Hair against cultural norms, or because black hair is "boring" and the streak helps characters pop, but none truly justify the trend. You rarely see, say, black or latino characters with hair streaks. It's always white or East Asian characters.

The excuse that it's to make characters more recognizable is particularly annoying. It seems like such a white complaint to me. Statistically, almost everyone on the planet has dark brown or black hair. Characters don't need random streaks in their hair to stand out because their hair is dark.

[up](x3) Purple, dark blue, red, and pink. I don't know why those colors in particular.

Edited by Pichu-kun on Feb 13th 2020 at 2:46:19 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#24278: Feb 13th 2020 at 3:09:08 PM

IMO it's like the black kickboxer trend, in that it's more lazy, uninspired, and cliche than actively harmful. I don't find it offensive, partly because it's something a lot of us do IRL, although it always being blue or purple is an issue, as a lot of us tend to go with shades of red or lighter browns. That's the part of the trope that I think has the least verisimilitude. It's something to roll one's eyes at as a noteworthy aggregate trend, more than protest.

[up] It's quite popular with female goth characters, for which I suspect there's a bit of mental bleedover in creators' eyes with Asian punk girls.

Edited by AlleyOop on Feb 13th 2020 at 6:13:03 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#24279: Feb 14th 2020 at 12:20:05 AM

The Iron Mask starring Jackie Chan and Arnold Schwartzneger

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#24280: Feb 14th 2020 at 1:31:16 AM

I heard their only in that film for a short scence which is about the length of this trailer basically.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Kayeka Since: Dec, 2009
SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#24282: Feb 14th 2020 at 6:21:35 AM

Is this the point where I point out that blue hair seems to be most popular out of real life weirder hair colors? <_<

But yeah, umm, I'm not sure hair streaks are something to get angry about, you can think its lazy yeah, but I genuinely think lot of people just think it looks cool

Edited by SpookyMask on Feb 14th 2020 at 4:25:12 PM

Lyendith Since: Mar, 2011
#24283: Feb 14th 2020 at 6:24:25 AM

Funnily, in some… corners of the internet blue hair is associated with "angry feminists" and "SJWs".

TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#24284: Feb 14th 2020 at 7:44:41 AM

I heard their only in that film for a short scence which is about the length of this trailer basically.

It certainly looks that way. Their shots are scattered throughout the trailer to create the impression of a major presence, but all shots of them appear to take place on the same set, in the same costumes, in the same general context. It's pretty clearly one scene carved up into multiple "moments" to create the illusion of a larger presence.

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InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#24285: Feb 14th 2020 at 1:20:37 PM

Personally, I'm less critical of the 'dyed hair streak' in animated media mostly because... hair tends to be all kinds of strange colors in general in animation. I've seen characters with green or blue hair that was apparently natural and we just... never question it for some reason.

And I think there's also a big difference in a cast of characters that are designed not only in clothing and hair style, but in complete shape down to every curve, movement, and color is inherently a lot more important in animation. I think it's also a tone thing; animation can be more out there and unusual in design elements and we won't bat an eye at it, but real life or even animation that's far more grounded is a bit... harder to ignore.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#24286: Feb 14th 2020 at 9:36:59 PM

I'll just say that while it is a weird trend and there's something to be said about visual sterotypes, especially if they're seemingly produced with one specific race, it's not in itself offensive.

It's a bit like that "Black superhero having electric powers" trend we talked about a couple of pages back: it's odd, seeing it again and again, but I won't begrudge anybody who'd prefer not seeing it again and again.

Edited by fredhot16 on Feb 14th 2020 at 9:41:20 AM

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eagleoftheninth In the name of being honest from the Street without Joy Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
In the name of being honest
#24287: Feb 14th 2020 at 10:06:07 PM

At the same time, it's a useful reminder for future creators to broaden their depiction of minority groups beyond well-worn archetypes.

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fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#24288: Feb 14th 2020 at 10:07:36 PM

[up]Yeah, that's honestly what it comes down to.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#24289: Feb 14th 2020 at 11:32:55 PM

I see it as similar to Magical Negro, it's a low bar to call it offensive but overuse made it a tired and lazy shorthand.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#24290: Feb 14th 2020 at 11:59:50 PM

Ehhh, the Magical Negro is more condescending as a trope. It keeps the black character in a subservient role, while the Asian Hair Streak is overly common but doesn't keep the character from being in a wide variety of roles including the protagonist.

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#24291: Feb 15th 2020 at 12:40:23 AM

I also tend to find that people attribute "Magical Black Guy" with characters who are... The Mentor in a Magic Setting who happen to be Black. Which is dramatically missing a lot of the context of the trope and taking it to it's most literal extreme rather that, well, the intent.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#24292: Feb 15th 2020 at 2:02:26 AM

The issue with the trope is more that the black character doesn't have a distinct character arc and only serves as an instigation for another characters' change and growth. It's less about the narrative importance of the character in the context of the story (they actually tend to have more power and awareness than the main character) and more how persistent it's used. If you were to precisely reverse the roles it would probably be seen as worse, with a white character being the one to enlighten an ignorant black character.

IniuriaTalis Since: Oct, 2014
#24293: Feb 15th 2020 at 6:59:36 PM

Which is, again, not the same as the hair streak thing: that has nothing to do with role, being present in protagonists, main team members, love interests, and everything in between. It's a visual shorthand for a rebellious girl, yes, but there aren't really any offensive connotations baked into it; bluntly, it feels like people want it to be bad just because it's associated with Asian girls, and people feel like it being a Western trope associated with a minority means it has to be demeaning somehow? I don't know.

Edited by IniuriaTalis on Feb 15th 2020 at 10:02:21 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#24294: Feb 15th 2020 at 8:30:42 PM

I've seen a few Asian women accuse it of being a racist archetype because it might play into "yellow fever" fetish stereotypes, but again I think they're overreacting in part. It's lazy and never good to stereotype fictional characters, but I don't think it's a portrayal of Asian women that's demeaning, and quite a few instances of this visual archetype, including famously Mako Mori, are fleshed out so it's not like the trope encourages objectification the way the China Doll or Asian Hooker tropes would. I feel like they might be projecting some negative connotations onto it due to certain life experiences of theirs, the same reason I see it as harmless due to my own.

Edited by AlleyOop on Feb 15th 2020 at 11:31:39 AM

TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#24295: Feb 16th 2020 at 6:32:51 AM

The asian hair thing is people looking for something to be offended by[tm] and a reaction to Hollywood doing its worst for non-white, non-male characters.

The colorful hair is a holdover from comics and animation - how else are you going to tell characters apart? Anime uses this a lot to the telegraph that a character is the "main guy"note 

So in animation, comics and video games, multi-colored hair is a way to tell the characters apart. It's become cliche at this point, grandfathered in animation but in live-action? I agree with this tumblr post (where a bunch of female Asian characters with dyed hair are shown):

Creators shouldn’t use colored hair streaks/unnaturally-colored hair as shorthand for actual character development, especially when it comes to some of the above characters (e.g. Yukio), where it doesn’t seem particularly likely that they would dye their hair in the first place.

A character should get actual lines and scenes to establish that they are: A) important, B) the hero and C) an actual character.

In the past, a lot of script writers and directors are more "eh, just giver her some tight clothes and have her stick her tits out". See Seven of Nine in Star Trey Voyager. It's fortunate that Jeri Ryan and some of the writers were able to save the character from Rick Berman's sexist ideas - Berman admitted that Seven was created to drawn the Male Gaze and save the show from low ratings.

It's not racist directly, but laziness on the part of major studios: the character who's a rebel and female has her hair dyed to tell Joe and Jane Moviegoer that the character is important. In works that don't have the superhero or cyberpunk look, it's annoying. Yes I know people dye their hair, but that's not the start or end of their personality.

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#24296: Feb 16th 2020 at 6:45:58 AM

Actually, Seven of Nine was more the brainchild of showrunner Jeri Taylor, including the catsuit. Sex Sells, but in fact they were so confident in Jeri Ryan and the character of Seven of Nine they made her the Spotlight-Stealing Squad right from inception.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#24297: Feb 16th 2020 at 7:12:38 AM

I should point out that one of the characters listed in the "Asian female characters with dyed-hair" trope is Mako Mori from Pacific Rim who is not rebellious, snarky or boisterous in any way.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#24298: Feb 16th 2020 at 7:18:57 AM

[up][up][up]Asuming billie isnt a anime protagonist, ballsytongue

But I would said maybe is a thing from animate that is absorved into western media? and I think is a way to said this chararter is young because is what young chararter does

Edited by unknowing on Feb 16th 2020 at 11:23:24 AM

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TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#24299: Feb 16th 2020 at 11:58:27 AM

[up] Exactly (the colors in the hair thing, wild mass guessas far as we knowwild mass guess Bille isn't an anime character).

Usually, it's either a Custom Uniform of Sexy or hair colors to tag the female character in comics/anime/animation/video games.

Comics did it - Psychlocke is but one example, Rogue has her skunk stripe and Storm has her silver hair.

Anime creators either picked up on western trends or it's a case of parallel development.

If you have a team of 5-7 character, who may be in uniform, how to you tell them apart if they are animated?

Studios just keep falling into the trap of: she mouths off at the (white male) lead, she yells, complains and has some "quirky" hair color, that means she's a character!

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48
DNAe Since: May, 2018 Relationship Status: Singularity
#24300: Feb 16th 2020 at 6:41:34 PM

The criticism I've heard about the Asian girl hair streak (emphasis on heard - I'm not Asian and I'm not sure if Asian people actually think this) is that its pervasiveness in such a variety of characters apparently communicates that it's the only way Hollywood seems to come up with to make a young Asian female character look cool/interesting/distinguishable (with an outrageous but cool hair color), with would then play into the racist "they all look the same" trope.

(so basically the story in the Teen Vogue article above of the girl wanting to dye her hair to a natural color and being told "noo, it sets you apart from other Asian girls")

Edited by DNAe on Feb 16th 2020 at 11:54:59 AM


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