An expy is an unambiguous and deliberate copy of another, older character."
Note the word "another" and the words "unambiguous", "deliberate", and "copy". Those are the important words.
Here's your checklist:
- "Unambiguous": There is no doubt, there is no room for arguing that they aren't.
- "Deliberate": Done with intent.
- The resemblance is not accidental or coincidental. (For instance, being played by the same voice actor/actress is not sufficient to make an expy. Neither is a similar art style when they're both drawn by the same artist.)
- Word of God helps a lot with this point, but if the other points are present strongly enough, Word of God is not absolutely required.
- "Copy": A duplicate, an item made in imitation of another one.
- The expy came after the character they're an expy of. If they both were created at about the same time, it probably isn't an expy.
- The older character is never the expy, even if the other, later character is better known.
- Superficial traits (like a hairstyle, choice in clothing, preferred fighting method) are not sufficient to make an expy; the copy needs to also fill the same role in the work and serve the same purpose within the story.
- Major traits or characteristics being very different between the two characters is enough to make a character not an expy (for instance, the original is a demure Girl Next Door, the proposed Expy is a FemmeFatale — not an expy)
- "Another": One other. Note the singular. It doesn't say "several". If the proposed expy combines traits, characteristics, or features of two or more other characters, they are not an expy of any of them.
If an entry fails to meet even one of those criteria, it is not an expy and should be removed.. Actual expies are nowhere near as common as many editors think.
If you want to link to this post in your edit reason, please do.
Here's the link to copy and paste: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13983140170A37263400&page=1#5
edited 27th Mar '15 6:53:01 AM by Madrugada
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Is it coincidence? Possibly, possibly not. But an expy can't be determined off characters sharing physical characteristics, especially when we're literally talking about a similar hair color and nothing else. That's like saying Link is an expy of Princess Peach because they're both blonde.
Drew's a confident, determined coordinator who picks on May and sometimes warms up to her. Wally's a sickly kid going on his journey. Calling Drew an expy of Wally's a stretch.
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Is there a separate trope for characters inspired by other characters?
Anyway, moving on, would Fearless from Bravelands count as an expy of Simba from The Lion King? They have many glaring similarities. They're both lion cubs whose fathers were killed by a rival male, which resulted in them being run out of their pride. Considering Simba is one of the most, if not the most, iconic lion characters out there it doesn't seem coincidental.
Is there Word of God confirming the similarities are intentional?
I found this entry on the Anime & Manga page for Expy:
- Bleach: Orihime Inoue resemblances Ushio and Tora's Mayuko in many ways. Shy and naive behavior? Check. Second female lead? Check. Amazing supernatural barrier-creating and healing powers? Check. They even share the same freaking surname.
I can't make the search engine work for me to find out if this entry has been addressed in the past. It's not found on Orihime's character page, or on the Bleach work's page. Shared surnames aside note , the entry is describing such a common female character type for manga and anime, while being written as fan association and using weasel words such as 'in many ways', that it makes me suspicious.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Take it out. Nothing in there indicates that the creator intentionally made her similar to the other character.
Out of note, in the example mentioned in {{373}}, "is modeled after" was altered to "shares prominent similarities with" with "These were never confirmed, so I'm putting in some ambiguity." as edit reason(Beyond this, the troper that altered the example altered the example in the tropes of the female protagonist. "Her design is based off of the female protagonist of Pokémon GO." was altered to "Her design appears to be based off of the female protagonist of Pokémon GO.")
edited 3rd Jun '18 5:50:52 PM by MagBas
Expies cannot have any ambiguity; after all, to be an expy, the similarities have to be intentional on the part of the author.
The Pokémon ones are easily expies. The show takes character designs and concepts from the games and adapts them into the anime but with eternally 10 Ash in the center instead of the game’s protagonist. It’s been the show’s thing ever since the start as Ash is modeled after Red.
Yellow was the games doing it in reverse, with Yellow receiving a Pikachu in much the same way as Ash did, it not staying in its pokeball and refuses to evolve. They also added expies of Jessie, James, Meowth, Nurse Joy and Officer Jenny to the games when they weren’t there in Red and Green as well as edited the Gym leader’s teams to better match their anime counterpart’s teams.
edited 4th Jun '18 6:34:51 AM by Memers
Is there Word of God confirming this? Remember, a key part of being the Expy is that it has to be intentional on the creator's part. "It's obviously what they were going for!" isn't good enough, because that's why we need this cleanup thread in the first place.
We're not playing guessing games with what went on in the creator's head; either they confirm the similarities were intentional, or no Expy entry.
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Afaik no one has sat down and asked the writers if he's based on Simba, so no. Then how about using the other ways to tell an expy?
If there's no confirmation yet, then we don't consider the character an expy. The page for Expy makes it explictly clear that it has to be deliberate on the creator's part, and trying to play guessing games with what went on in the creator's head is why we're in this mess.
I've got two RWBY examples to run by everyone:
- Li Ren was explicitly modeled after Hanzo, complete with bow and arrow and similar facial features.
- The character's appearance being based on Hanzo is definitely confirmed by the creators. However, this example says nothing about the actual characterisation of Li Ren being based on Hanzo's character. I don't know the Overwatch game, so I have no idea if the characterisation of the two characters are similar. Does Expy apply when only the appearance is confirmed but the characterisation is not?
- The island of Menagerie is an expy of the real world continent Australia. Both are islands in the south east of major continents, where two thirds of the landmass is considered inhospitable because of climate and dangerous wildlife. The fact that Menagerie was also a means to relocate all Faunus from the mainland bares similarities to Australia's history, where it was once used to keep European convicts who would eventually colonize it.
- I'm iffy about settings. The comparisons between Menagerie and Australia are definitely deliberate. But we're talking about a setting here, not a character.
No, the other one.
Probably Fantasy Counterpart Culture.
Bringing up this example from Sonic the Hedgehog (IDW), under Rough & Tumble:
- Expy: They're more-or-less IDW's take on the "bumbling villainous duo that annoys Eggman" archtype common throughout the franchise. Previous examples of which include Scratch and Grounder, Sleet and Dingo, Decoe and Bocoe, and Orbot and Cubot. The main difference here is that these two are flying solo when the comic starts, but have been teased to end up working for someone, obviously Eggman.
Well, it seems obvious that the similarities are deliberate. That being said, is sharing the same role as a previous character, or in this case characters, enough to be counted as an Expy? The entry even mentions that this these characters differ from their predecessors.
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On Characters.Pokemon Protagonists And Rivals is it okay to call Chase a Blue expy? The page currently calls him a "redesigned rival" but he's a separate character.
I'm going to say "No" until someone finds confirmation that any similarities to Blue were intentional on the creator's part.
So it's been 3 days, anymore responses to the example I posted above?
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By that, should the male protagonist's entry be cut? No one has confirmed he's an expy of Red.
I say cut it.
This is on Counterpart Comparison for the YMMV page of Xenoblade Chronicles 2.
- Mòrag is similar to Dunban, as they're both agility tanks that are members of the military, further cemented when Mòrag gets a unique Chroma Katana. Her similarities to Dunban in particular are lampshaded by Fiora if you have her as a Blade in party.
Now that it's been lampshaded, does that make it Expy or no? It seems to be done on purpose at this point, if the game makes mention of it.
@Dragonfire 5000 how is THIS even arguable?
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edited 19th Jun '18 7:31:40 AM by Memers
I'm once again going to quote this part from the Expy page:
Again, "it's obviously what they were going for!" is part of why we need this cleanup thread in the first place. It's simple: find confirmation from the creators that say "Yes, we deliberately made this character to be like they were exported from a previous game" and then we can consider them Expies.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
Those aren't expies of Jessie and James, they are Jessie and James. That's a clear example of them being Canon Immigrants. An Expy is supposed to be a separate character who's an intentional stand-in for another, not taking a character from one medium and transplanting them into the source material.
edited 19th Jun '18 8:07:26 AM by chasemaddigan
Should the "Provided he isn't just a flat-out redesign of Red" be deleted off of Pokémon Protagonists and Rivals? That seems highly unlikely considering they just showed off Red in the previous games. They could pull another "It's an Alternate Universe" but that seems a bit too quickly.
edited 31st May '18 7:20:07 AM by Pichu-kun