Since we've gotten told to stop talking generally about religion twice in the Homosexuality and Religion thread and were told that, if we want to talk generally about religion, we need to make a new thread, I have made a new thread.
Full disclosure: I am an agnostic atheist and anti-theist, but I'm very interested in theology and religion.
Mod Edit: All right, there are a couple of ground rules here:
- This is not a thread for mindless bashing of religion or of atheism/agnosticism etc. All view points are welcome here. Let's have a civil debate.
- Religion is a volatile subject. Please don't post here if you can't manage a civil discussion with viewpoints you disagree with. There will be no tolerance for people who can't keep the tone light hearted.
- There is no one true answer for this thread. Don't try to force out opposing voices.
edited 9th Feb '14 1:01:31 PM by Madrugada
Like reflections in the glass!
I presume early translations capitalized the title and it just took off from there. and given certain interpretations (ie, everything about Lucifer who themself would be a similar case), it veers closer to the former.
And what of "Lucifer"?
I think there’s a global conspiracy to see who can get the most clicks on the worst lies
Like reflections in the glass!
I'm assuming that their name was also a case of Everyone Calls Him "Barkeep" given that it translates to "lightbringer" and thus feels more like a title than a name at first. And likewise became associated with the then titleholder when they attempted their heavenly coup. Becoming a name afterward.
So parent demons began naming their baby demons after their legendary hero? Cool.
I think there’s a global conspiracy to see who can get the most clicks on the worst lies
All names are technically titles or descriptions if you dig down far enough.
I thought it would be interesting to note that according to the Dictionnaire Infernal, Beelzebub usurped Satan as the ruler of Hell.
Also interesting, Beelzebub is treated as one of Satan's many, many nicknames (seriously, that guy needs some kind of nickname Roll-a-Dex 
).
And like Bael and Berith is derived from the God Baal.
Likewise, Fallen Angel who still serves God, Samael, is also used as another name for Satan.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on Sep 25th 2021 at 8:07:39 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.That's a funny thought right there. The Prince of Darkness getting up in the morning and feeling frustrated as he tries to shake off his tiredness while he goes over to his Roll-a-Dex and saying aloud "All right, what am I called today?" XP
Edited by Demetrios on Sep 25th 2021 at 10:18:54 AM
I smell magic in the air. Or maybe barbecue.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Alternatively, there's a committee in Hell where demons are elected who gets to be Satan for the day.
Oh, bother.
There's also the significance of Lucifer / Satan / whatever having a name that does not end with "el" unlike other angels.
Remember that the "el" part means "of God".
Disgusted, but not surprisedOn a similar note, I noticed that a lot of demons' names end with the letters "th," such as Lilith, Berith, and Astaroth, to name a few.
Edited by Demetrios on Sep 25th 2021 at 10:52:52 AM
I smell magic in the air. Or maybe barbecue.
One of the names Lucifer is derived from is Ugarits Helel Ben Shahar. So there’s that.
It also derives from one other source I believe Roman pantheon?
Edited by OmegaRadiance on Sep 25th 2021 at 8:52:31 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Now to be fair here, The Big G also has a fairly ridiculous list of names. He can be variably known as God, YHWW, Elohim, El Shaddai, Ha-Shem, Adonai, Jehovah, Lord, The Almighty, Deus, The Father/Son/Holy Spirit, The Holy Trinity, Christ, Most High, Messiah, The Light, The Alpha and The Omega.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Oh, bother.
The significance of the "el" part in angel names is also referenced briefly in The Dresden Files urban fantasy series. The MC at one point casually shortens the name of the archangel Uriel to "Uri" during a conversation (yes the MC talks with angels — it's that kind of series).
Uriel goes into a state of Tranquil Fury, gently but firmly telling Harry to never leave out the "el" part of his name again. He's fine with being called "Mr. Sunshine" though.
Edited by M84 on Sep 26th 2021 at 12:03:40 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Maybe "-el" is the celestial form of "The" but put in the end and not as a separate word in the beginning?
Is Lucifer actually the correct transliteration though? Or is it possible that it was Lucifel at one point before someone made a typo somewhere?
@Titan Jump "El" is actually a root word meaning "God" or "Of God", which is why a lot of angels have that name. So, some various angelic names mean:
- Gabriel = "God is my Strength" or "Hero of God"
- Uriel = "Fire of God"
- Michael = "Who can compare to God?"
- Raphael = "God has healed"
- Azrael = "Help from God"
Edited by Protagonist506 on Sep 25th 2021 at 10:39:08 AM
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Thanks for the very informative answer.
Didn't knew this one.
Angel comes from Greek, and it means "Messenger".
Ah, ok, editted my post to remove that.
This even led to people reverse-engineering the process and fictional angels usually follow the pattern. Castiel an Aziraphale (pronounced Aziraphael) being example.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."
And if they're particularly dedicated to accuracy, they may even use actual Hebrew for the rest of the name.
Strictly speaking Ba'al isn't a single deity, it's a title meaning Lord or Ruler that tend to get appended to the patron deity of the local power in Canaanite are related groups. Usually when you see it on it's own it referring to Ba'al Hamon, the Chief of the Gods in the Phoenician/Carthaginian pantheon.
Often in Roman sources because they mistook Ba'al for a name rather than realising it for at title.
In that case, how did it become a case of Everyone Calls Him "Barkeep"? Either that or His Name Really Is "Barkeep".
I smell magic in the air. Or maybe barbecue.