The Scrappy Cleanup

From Delicious in Dungeon:

• Kabru is not popular thanks to his Black-and-White Insanity and being an Ungrateful Bastard towards Team Touden.

This entry is no longer true, as Kabru has had his backstory explained which showed that he had valid reasons to think the protagonists were dangerous, and after some development and hearing their point of view he's started supporting them. This entry was written long before I joined the fandom and I've never seen any hate for the character at all, so I believe that he's either been Rescued from the Scrappy Heap or was never a true Scrappy at all.

From YMMV.Love Live Sunshine:

• While she's still an Ensemble Dark Horse, Mari's mother is also disliked by some due to her forcing Mari to an arranged marriage instead of having her freedom.

Seems complainy to me... not to mention The Scrappy and Ensemble Dark Horse are mutually exclusive, as far as I know. The description also better fits Base-Breaking Character, but even then, it's not very fleshed out.

Edited by Tenma-Yuuki on Apr 14th 2019 at 12:48:59 AM

Remove the entry and maybe move her to Base-Breaking Character if they entry can be fleshed out. The Scrappy is for characters hated by the majority of the fandom, not just some fans.

I just took it down for now, for lack of a better description on my part.

Edited by Tenma-Yuuki on Apr 15th 2019 at 5:55:14 AM

I wouldn't put the character under Base-Breaking Character unless it can be proven that there is little to no third side in a long-sustained conflict surrounding the character. Base-Breaking Character is not "doesn't have quite enough haters to be a Scrappy."

@IniuriaTalis Cutting since Catharsis Factor on this page note he dies a lot. It sounds like we're supposed to hate him for this.

My Bride is a Mermaid has numerous characters that look like candidates:

• Hideyoshi "Chimp" Sarutobi and Kai Mikawa. Sarutobi's development was completely lacking (and is only in this series to irritate the viewers), and Mikawa's refusal to accept that he can never be with Sun, and his attempts to bribe others, not to mention his fraudulent death campaign in episode 24, don't make for a likable character. And the duo's relationship doesn't help much, either.
• Pretty much the entirety of the Seto outfit (*particularly* Maki and Gozaburo), except for Sun (for obvious reasons), Ren (for keeping her highly-overprotective husband in check), and Masa (a well-developed character). Their sole purpose in this series is to try and keep Nagasumi and Sun's relationship in check, even if they have to resort to violence and think nothing of it.

They were removed on the grounds of "it's like saying half the cast is The Scrappy", but we've had a decent number of projects with more than half the cast as The Scrappy. Particularly the '94 film North, with almost the entire cast (including the title character himself) designated as such.

Before I can add any of them back, I need some opinions.

Edited by TVLubber on Apr 16th 2019 at 8:49:40 AM

I'm going to say no to those for now because they read more like personal gripes and don't do a good job explaining the general audience reaction.

I remember a while back this thread had a big argument about whether the character Rose from Tales of Zestiria counted, concluding that it was a no because only the Japanese audience really hated her whereas the reception elsewhere was more mixed. But I noticed today that the series Scrappy page at some point had her added back with an "in Japan" qualifier and weasel wording about Western opinions. This doesn't seem kosher to me, so I thought I'd bring it up here.

(Also, the entry is entirely about characterization-based reasons why people dislike her, which seems a little odd given that, IIRC, a big part of the issue was deceptive marketing and other meta stuff).

Edited by nrjxll on Apr 22nd 2019 at 6:01:25 AM

Since we've concluded that Japan is the series home, why would the bulk of the hatred being in Japan exclude her from the trope?

Can you be The Scrappy in one part of the franchise but not on in the other? Like, a character is hated in its debut but in the sequel they get rescued or something like that. I'm asking because of this page Mortal Kombat.

First of all, most of the fandom agrees that the part where Sindel single-handedly kills half the cast of the good guys is one of the worst scenes in the 9's story mode. That said, i don't think Sindel herself is a Scrappy. At worst she is just a Base-Breaking Character.

Same with D'Vorah. It seems whoever wrote her entry saw spoilers for the new game and added the entry right away.

Meat and Hsu Hao can definitely stay but i suppose that would mean the page is axed.

TheScrappy.Advertising has Where's the Beef? as an example. That commercial was so popular it got tons of merchandise, a vinyl record, and reached peak meme saturation in the 1984 Democratic presidential campaigns. Since it was so popular I don't think it's an example, even if people did find it annoying.

The entry reads "Back in the Eighties, the old lady that yelled "Where's the Beef?" was a funny joke that got old quickly. When it got to the point that presidential candidates used it as a punchline during the 1984 election, the public's tolerance towards the ads wore thin. There's even a reference on The Simpsons where it is used as an example for the best way to get rid of an annoying advertisement."

Edited by lalalei2001 on Apr 27th 2019 at 4:46:11 AM

Masked Rider:

Original post: Ferbus. He has an annoying high pitched voice, does nothing really useful and gets into trouble every few episodes, forcing Dex to go out of his way to save him.

1. An annoying voice isn't enough to sustain his Scrappiness.

2. Ferbus actually did something useful at least three times (for example: he helped catch burglars in one episode, when Hal and Albee were turning into insects, Ferbus went to get Dex, and he knew how to summon King Lexian when Dex got indigestion from one of Dregon's Insectivores)

3. Getting into trouble every few episodes? I've only seen a few episodes in which he was endangered (some of which he wasn't even alone), and at least once did he get out of trouble on his own (when he was caught by animal control and managed to escape on his own).

I think he should be removed from the Scrappy Heap for now.

Edited by TVLubber on Apr 27th 2019 at 4:30:19 AM

That sounds like people not liking the work, not people disliking the character. "I am a big fan of this work that's mostly about one character and her catchphrase, but I hate that character" said no one ever.

If people were genuinely tired of it at some point there might be room for a Discredited Meme entry. Otherwise agreed, not a Scrappy.

Would anybody agree with Hank Stamper from Life Is Strange 2? While he was intended to be a Hate Sink, players disliked him for being a one-dimensional Strawman of Trump supporters. He's a card-carrying racist who assumes Sean stole from his store (even if the player didn't) just because he's Mexican, handcuffs him and beats him up while saying that he's the reason the country needs A Wall, and even calls him a racial slur. Yeah, they managed to Strawman a racist.

To be a Scrappy and Hate Sink, they have to be hated for different reasons than they are intended for. This is all intentional reasons he's hated so he's not an example as written.

I deleted this from YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic IDW Issue 75 To 78 since the story is ongoing.

• The Scrappy: Cosmos has become this for many fans, as her uncreative nature (essentially being a bigger, stronger, crazier, pre-redemption Discord) and completely retconing Discord's backstory (to the point most of Discord's pre-redemption actions are revealed to have been her actions) has soured many fans to her. Many also see her as having no real motivation or backstory besides 'I'm evil' while lacking Discord's charisma and entertaining personality to compensate.

Again, what should the waiting period be for scrappy? Six-Months? If they're forgotten as opposed to hated by then do they count. What about the two-week period in effect for Woobie and Magnificent Bastard?

Should we get a crowner for a Scrappy wailing period? It looked to me like we're all in agreement for it.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on May 3rd 2019 at 1:31:43 AM

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on May 6th 2019 at 5:47:10 AM

YMMV.Final Fantasy VII says "Cait Sith is an intentional one". The example doesn't exactly seem to be a Hate Sink either. Should it just be deleted?

Yeah, go ahead.

Starting to wonder if The Scrappy could use a similar system like Complete Monster does, because i have seen a lot of entries get made because of some really knee-jerk reactions.

Mortal Kombat has had an issue with D'Vorah, where you could argue she is a Base-Breaking Character but for a spoiler reason she is now become the worse and several tropes are trying to shoehorn her as the Scrappy.

That and i think there is a waiting period of 6 months for audience reactions entries.

I say either 6 month waiting period or 2 weeks and an approval process.

An approval process seems like overkill, but six months seems appropriate to properly measure fan fervor and anger.

I'd definitely be up for an approval process, especially if it means whiny entries get cut down and people wanting to write entries has to put in more effort in research instead of just saying "They're totally hated by the fandom, take my word for it!'