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lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Mar 28th 2012 at 11:03:13 AM

In the TRS thread for Keet, it was determined that guys who fit the Genki Girl type (which ranges from "cheerful and active" through "permanently wired") should be put on Genki Girl rather than a new Genki Guy trope. So I am bringing Genki Girl here to discuss the appropriate description rewrites, and perhaps a rename to a gender-neutral version (Genki Character?).

Description: The major difference I see between genki female characters and genki male characters is that genkiness is not always very effective in getting things done, so a genki girl can be commended for her effort even if she fails, whereas a genki guy is more likely to be Played for Laughs and/or portrayed as feminine or ineffectual.

Rename: The pros for keeping it as Genki Girl is that pure genki is more common in female characters, males being more likely Hot-Blooded or Boisterous Bruiser. The con is that people are less likely to use a trope named Genki Girl for a male character, even with the redirects Genki Boy and Genki Guy.

Thoughts?

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Nocturna Seeking for Light
Seeking for Light
Mar 28th 2012 at 11:43:03 AM

Another possibility for a rename would be to just call it Genki, and leave Genki Girl, Genki Boy, etc. as redirects.

lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Mar 28th 2012 at 11:54:20 AM

I think that would violate the trope-name-clarity requirements. At the least it needs to indicate that it's a character type.

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Ekuran Hi. from somewhere. Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Hi.
Mar 28th 2012 at 12:32:57 PM [Insert seemingly profound or amusing phrase here.]
lu127 Paper Master from 空蝉丸
Mar 28th 2012 at 12:33:54 PM

The Genki One?

edited 28th Mar '12 12:34:05 PM by lu127

Mar 28th 2012 at 4:18:49 PM

  1. 1: This character type is far more likely to be a girl than a boy, so it should not be surprising to see more girls then boys in the examples.

  2. 2: The name Genki Girl with Genki Guy as a redirect is consistent with how we have handled other gender neutral tropes that have a predominance of one gender.

So I'm not seeing the need for a rename.

As for a rewrite, not sure we need that much there either in differentiating. Maybe a line that says that for girls the trope has more "positive empowerment" overtones, while guys tend to be more straight comedy.

edited 28th Mar '12 4:20:18 PM by Sackett

lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Mar 28th 2012 at 4:22:57 PM

[up] "This character type is far more likely to be a girl than a boy, so it should not be surprising to see more girls then boys in the examples."

Up to the past few days it was defined as an Always Female trope that implied its Spear Counterpart was Keet, so the lack of male examples is largely due to that. It is more commonly female, but not to the extent previously implied. Offhand I can't think of any other trope with a gender-specific name that isn't sufficiently gender biased to be Always Female or Always Male.

To your edit: I dunno if it really has "positive empowerment" overtones ever, it's usually more comedy/cuteness.

edited 28th Mar '12 4:25:23 PM by lebrel

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Mar 28th 2012 at 4:49:22 PM

I'm really not seeing a problem. Add Genki Boy and Genki Guy as redirects, edit the description to make it more gender-neutral, and maybe swap the quote to refer to a male example (just to make it a little more obvious). Full-on rename seems like overkill.

lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Mar 28th 2012 at 6:10:13 PM

If people are happy with Genki Girl as the main name, OK, we can leave it. Anyone want to opine on the gender-specific characteristics of the trope that should be added to the desription?

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HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
Mar 29th 2012 at 5:26:29 AM

[up] I think part of the point of the Genki Girl trope is to make such characters endearing to male viewers. Perhaps they or their gender-flip may be comparably endearing to female viewers, but Most Writers Are Male, and as far as I know the same goes for viewers of most shows known to portray Genki Girls.

So, even if the characterization is similar, the reasons behind it are somewhat different.

edited 29th Mar '12 8:10:43 AM by HiddenFacedMatt

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
Raso Cure Candy
Cure Candy
Mar 29th 2012 at 7:29:49 AM

[up] I gotta agree there, we should probably keep these seprate with a gender counterpart trope.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Mar 29th 2012 at 8:38:16 AM

[up][up] Genki Girls are not uncommon in shoujo (Usagi from Sailor Moon is a classic example), and Genki Guys, as far as I can tell, are predominantly found in female-oriented media and are usually supposed to be cute. So I think that part of the motivation is similar irregardless.

[up] Can you explain why you think they merit a separate page?

edited 29th Mar '12 8:38:30 AM by lebrel

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Raso Cure Candy
Cure Candy
Mar 29th 2012 at 9:00:56 AM

A Genki Guy as we define Genki Girl is well IMO P So C that it's a normal teenage male in media and such.

There is a trope in taking it farther to the extreme yes.IMO Guys should be defined slightly different with a description than Genki Girl with emphasis made that these guys usually have different tropes connected to them like Hot-Blooded. (Genki Girl s can feature these tropes but not as often.)

The real character defining (as in this is their entire base character.) Genki Girl s are usually treated as cute, sweet brimming with energy, always positive with occasional moments of Jerkass, Genki Guy s are usually treated as a Delinquent, an ass, an Idiot (Idiot Hero mostly.) annoys girls, always in trouble with authority etc.

edited 29th Mar '12 9:01:31 AM by Raso

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lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Mar 29th 2012 at 9:15:58 AM

[up] Do you read shoujo ever? I'm gonna say no, because Genki Guys are typically appealing characters in shoujo. Even if they're delinquents.

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Raso Cure Candy
Cure Candy
Mar 29th 2012 at 9:25:20 AM

Most of the Shojo I read / watch have very few or no guys in it... But I said Delinquent in there, also they can be The Rebel and such butting heads with authority who want them to tone it down. Girls usually get away with that stuff in stories because it's cute (Outside of Karmic Retribution Rule of Funny.) guys usually can't as their energy is breaking some rule out there or it ends up being aggressive.

edited 29th Mar '12 9:36:24 AM by Raso

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lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Mar 29th 2012 at 9:45:39 AM

I'm still not seeing it. If the "bundle of energy, bouncing off the walls, super-enthusiastic dude" (like say, Kujou in Mad Love Chase, or practically anybody from Oresama Teacher) gets in trouble, that's not handled as any worse than the "bundle of energy, bouncing off the walls, super-enthusiastic chick" getting in trouble. Yes, they tend to be The Ditz or just dumb but that's not uncommon for Genki Girls either. I think you may be thinking of characters who are more Hot-Blooded; there's some overlap, but it's not the same.

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HiddenFacedMatt Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
Avatars may be subject to change without notice.
Mar 29th 2012 at 11:17:59 AM

Even if we're not sure which direction the difference in intent or reception is in, *

it's still one worth noting. We just need a little more discussion so as to have a better idea what those differences are.

edited 29th Mar '12 11:18:27 AM by HiddenFacedMatt

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Mar 29th 2012 at 11:53:47 AM

I think the commonalities are that genkiness is usually a source of comedy and is usually but not always cute to some degree or another. The differences largely lie in how it affects the character; a cute, hyper but somewhat ineffectual girl can perfectly feminine and is fine as a main character / love interest type, but a cute, hyper but somewhat ineffectual guy isn't normatively masculine and therefore isn't typical leading-man material. Kind of like The Ditz; male ditzes can act just like female ditzes, but it tends to either push them into the comedy relief / goofy secondary character slot, or if he's a lead (especially a romantic lead), it's likely to be in a comedy context where his ditziness/genkiness is part of the joke, like Tamaki from Ouran High School Host Club.

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lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Apr 1st 2012 at 3:31:40 PM

Bump. Since I'm guessing a lot of people here don't read that much shoujo, consider Spongebob Squarepants: is he a Genki Guy? (I certainly don't think he's Hot-Blooded.) Should he be part of the same trope as Usagi from Sailor Moon?

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Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Apr 1st 2012 at 3:33:23 PM

[up] No, he's not, because he's not from a Japanese work.

Special trousers. Very heroic.
lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Apr 1st 2012 at 3:41:06 PM

[up] There's thousands of Western characters on the Genki Girl page already. It's one of the Tropes Of Legend and keeping it Japan-specific would require massive pruning.

edited 1st Apr '12 3:41:17 PM by lebrel

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Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Apr 1st 2012 at 3:50:29 PM

[up] Probably. But it's Eddie's rule that tropes with a Japanese name may only have Japanese (or animesque) examples.

Special trousers. Very heroic.
lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Apr 1st 2012 at 4:10:17 PM

[up] He hasn't ruled on this one, yet. If you want to bring it to his attention, knock yourself out.

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Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Apr 1st 2012 at 4:30:25 PM

[up] What do you mean? He's said it (repeatedly) about Japanese-named tropes in general, not a specific exclusive list.

Special trousers. Very heroic.
lebrel Tsundere pet. from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Apr 1st 2012 at 4:57:42 PM

[up] Most of the (remaining) Japanese-named tropes are pretty small. This one has thousands of wicks and 3K inbounds.

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Page Action: Genki Girl
16th May '12 10:30:56 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Previous TRS on Keet determined that Genki Boy / Genki Guy should be folded into the Genki Girl trope. It has been suggested it should be a separate trope instead.

Total posts: 81
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How well does it match the trope?

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