Cutoff for OlderThanRadio?

The page description for Older Than Radio says that radio was invented in the 1890s, so I moved Stop Trick (an 1890s invention) to Older Than Television. Then I noticed a lot of other listed tropes that were from the 1890s (Aliens Are Bastards, Tripod Terror, etc.) Do these go in Older Than Television, or should we change the description of Older Than Radio?

Good question. The cutoffs for Older Than Radio and Older Than Television are entire decades, instead of single years. I suggested a while ago changing them to single years, but fixing the giant mess that was/is Older Than Dirt took priority.

I had looked in Wikipedia for the history of those two media, and suggested changing the upper Older Than Television cutoff to 1936 or 1939. The upper Older Than Radio cutoff could be 1898, 1899, or 1900.

edited 15th Dec '11 8:56:03 PM by ArcadesSabboth

One issue with the Older Than Radio cutoff is that radio was invented long before it became a medium of mass entertainment. This is a little less true for television, though it was invented back in the 1920s.

The basis used for the Older Than Print cutoff is explained at the bottom of The Oldest Ones in the Book. Basically, as I understand it, the cutoffs were put at the point when the new medium (movable-type printing press books) became widespread enough that it changed the distribution of works.

That makes sense to me as the cutoff for radio and televison: the dates at which radio works and television works, respectively, started to be produced and distributed widely.

This may be more awkward with radio and TV than print. If broadcasts started with a trickle for a few years before becoming common, then there may be works that were made in the new medium before that medium was widespread.

edited 25th Dec '11 10:36:04 PM by ArcadesSabboth

I recall, but cannot find using the search, an old TRS thread for Older Than Radio from a while back and we settled on the end of WW 1 (1918) as when Radio started becoming mass market and also because of the social changes after WW 1 which transformed the way tropes were used.

Huh, can't find it in the Repair Shop Morgue.

It was long ago, if it was specifically about Older Than Radio. The Morgue only has threads that were locked since about what, October?

Ok, I checked— the end of September. TRS threads closed before that are gone.

edited 26th Dec '11 9:07:46 AM by Madrugada

I'm reviving this discussion because once I double-check the Older Than Print and "" Steam wicks, I'll move on to examples and wicks from "" Radio, and "" Television. Having their cutoff points already nailed down would be more efficient than going back to clean up again later.

If the upper Older Than Radio cutoff was already fixed at 1918, should I correct Older Than Radio and Older Than Television to show that? Or does it need another TRS thread to decide it officially? Since the cutoff dates for two of these indexes are affected, should I bring it up in TRS or in Special Efforts?

If 1918 is already official, I could just make one Older Than Television TRS thread for its upper cutoff point.

EDIT: Haha, no this has no impact on Older Than Steam either way, what am I saying?

edited 1st Mar '12 8:24:00 AM by ArcadesSabboth

Interestingly, re-reading the origin of the current division, doing something like this would move the cutoffs closer to their original intention.

Huh, it looks like the original suggestions were 1900 and 1945, with 1926 being another suggestion for the upper Older Than TV limit.

And if that isn't a redirect I'm making it one.

EDIT: And behold! The one pre-existing wick for that redirect came from the Ask The Tropers archive containing the original 1918 (or rather, WWI) decision. It wasn't in TRS, but Madrugada gave the general cleanup a go-ahead.

So can I assume moderator permission stands to edit the pages, examples, and wicks to reflect this? Or should I go through TRS with it instead?

edited 11th Apr '12 7:55:36 AM by ArcadesSabboth

What is necessary to get a decision about this issue? Since it involves 2-3 pages, does it have to stay on this subforum? Or do I have to go through TRS? Or do I need to get moderator approval for the change and if so, how?