Cleaning up : Anime Tropes

The Language and translations tropes should stay (Things like Adjective Noun Fred and such too). As well as Adaptation tropes (such as Gecko Ending and Overtook the Manga). and Gender Vocabulary Slip.

edited 29th Sep '11 3:59:49 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

We're probably also dealing with a number of missing supertropes.

I seem to remember us having a discussion about Overtook the Manga at one point, its definitely a specific subtrope of Incomplete Adaption or whatever, but its very common in anime, due to the relatively unique relationship anime and manga have.

Also I really hate the term Gecko Ending. But its also quite anime specific, and another subtrope of Incomplete Adaption.

We're going to split Language and Translation tropes into their own index for things no matter what they're translated to or from.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I thought there already was a Translation Tropes index?

Ah, then the Translation Tropes go on that index and not on this one.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

They would go on both. (except the language tropes.)

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

No, they wouldn't go on both because they are in no way exclusive to anime. That's what this index is for. Not general translation tropes that are used when translating any media.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Not all of them no a few would go on both.

Anyway please move Adjective Noun Fred, Red Eye, Finger Twiddling and Gender Vocabulary Slip to general Japanese tropes.

Gecko Ending and Overtook the Manga should be in the keep column.

Or at least move them to the debated column.

edited 29th Sep '11 1:58:57 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Raso, the translation stuff is not used in anime, they are a consequence of there being non-Japanes anime fans. Shima is correct, they belong on the translation index, not the anime index.

Gender Vocabulary Slip happens in languages other than Japanese. Just because English isn't one of them doesn't mean it goes on the anime index. Either way, it needs some TRS love because right now it's got more description than examples.

edited 29th Sep '11 2:01:52 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

It wouldn't stay on Anime Tropes I said move to Japanese Tropes since its a feature of the language which an English speaking wiki would not understand so putting it on an index that fits it well and likely to be useful there is a good thing...

Looking at the examples... one French example, French does this too? So it should go on the French Tropes index too if it exists.

Wiki Magic or TRS wouldn't hurt though.

edited 29th Sep '11 2:14:16 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

French does it too. It's a highly gendered language. It should go on a language tropes index. Not an anime tropes index. It's a general language trope. Not one specific to Japanese. It only has eight examples at all. It needs to be written a bit more general.

edited 29th Sep '11 2:21:25 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

If any of the translation tropes only occur in anime translations, and only can occur there, I could see the point in listing them among the Anime Tropes. However, I doubt that's the case - translating anime is just translating animated works + translating from Japanese.

That's one of the reasons the remaining pile of Anime Tropes on the list is like four tropes long.

Anyway, I hope everyone moved the stuff they wanted to discuss into "needs sorting". Cause that's where I'm starting.

Raso, and everyone else, we are not moving things out of the "needs sorting" section at this time. I made a quick and dirty pass over the tropes looking to save some time for the more obvious stuff. I made my decisions mostly from a glance over the descriptions and comparing sizes of medium sections.

We're going to need to sort to several indexes, instead of just y/n. I'll list some of them:

Confirmed sections.

Japanese Tropes (tropes that originate in Japanese culture, unless it's part of a subindex like Stock Japanese Characters or Japanese Visual Arts)

Translation Tropes (tropes that occur when translating from one language to another)

Animation Tropes (tropes that occur in animation, any animation)

[Japanese Visual Arts Tropes] (Visual Art Tropes, from Japan) Name is to be decided on, since it's not important to what the index goes on. We could call it Animesque Visual Style if we wanted. Whatever.

TRS (trope is being TRS'd)

Remove (tropes that will simply be removed from this index)

Possible sections

Anime Tropes (tropes that are a subset of both Japanese Visual Arts and Animation Tropes) I don't know if there will be enough of these to merit an index.

Japanese Culture References (tropes stemming from Japanese culture, like stock food or holidays, or whatever).

Stock Japanese Symbolism (stock symbolism, from Japan)

Japanese Language Tropes (Four Is Death and all that jazz, stock puns, etc)

edited 29th Sep '11 9:41:07 PM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.

Mixing in things on the Useful Notes:Japan index and they would be much larger, everything is all mixed up.

edited 29th Sep '11 9:32:06 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Don't ask me to move stuff into the "needs to be sorted", go ahead and move it yourself if you disagree with where I put it. The only person to edit the page after me was lebrel, who was fixing a link.

Do not move it to any section but "needs sorting" or TRS though. We can argue about where to put it once we've cleared it up.

Fight smart, not fair.

Lets just get started, ok? What do we want to deal with first?

If you don't disagree with my initial assessments on Sandbox.Anime Tropes, the first five "need to be sorted" are

• Airplane of Love (might be Japanese symbolism, might be general)
• Anime Hair (seems to have a lot of non anime examples. source unclear though)
• Artificial Riverbank (is this something that only occurs in Japan?)
• Bishie Sparkle (origin? might need TRS)
• Bishōnen Line (not sure on origin, might be from Japan)

Fight smart, not fair.

Hmm

Airplane of Love - Never ran into this one before, but reading through it and the examples, its definitely a thing. Is this symbolism used in the West at all? I certainly can't think of many, the few non-Japanese examples look rather coincidental. But I'm open to someone demonstrating its more common.

Anime Hair - More of an animation/drawn media trope. Hair is good for expressing things about a character, and with illustrations exaggeration is simple. May need a rename, certainly not anime specific, though probably used more extensively there than any other single media

Artificial Riverbank - While existing outside Japan, they seem more common there than elsewhere, or at the very least, show up in media far more often. Its very much a Stock Location, used very frequently in anime, to the extent where we only have Anime and Real Life (Which should probably be axed...) examples.

Bishie Sparkle - Sparkles used to show attractiveness. Similar to the "flash of light off of white teeth" effect that you see all the time. The tropes are probably related, somehow. Probably not Anime specific, needs a rename

Bishōnen Line - Not anime specific, needs a rename, shows up the most in videogames probably. Should TRS

Artificial Riverbank shows up all the time in Western works. It just doesn't seem to have any examples from Western works because it's written as if it only occurs in Japan. Most works set in Chicago feature one.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Lots of other pages written as anime specific get western examples, so I find it odd this one doesn't.

That being said, its not an anime trope, its a Stock Location (or whatever we call those), that happens more frequently in anime because, I'm willing to bet, they are far more common per-capita in Japan than in the US. I for one have never seen one, but thats a function of where I live.

So yeah, fix description, move off of Anime Tropes

Eh, that one hardly has any wiks at all, they're all anime wiks, and it's not listed anywhere where it's going to grow. It needs some heavy TRS work.

edited 29th Sep '11 11:22:31 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

So, results so far (trying something new):

Airplane of Love: still deciding (2 votes

). Can anyone name a western, or at least a live action Japanese work that uses this? It might be something that started as a Japanese Visual Arts Trope and migrated out, since planes tend not to be things that fly around randomly. It's a romance trope, and I don't really hang out in that genre, so I'm ignorant.

Anime Hair: Put in Animation Tropes, rename/rewrite to be non-animespecific (2 votes

). Might have wikage to keep it's name though.

Artificial Riverbank: Move to Stock Locations or Stock Settings (or is that something different?), may need to create this index, sounds useful. Needs rewrite to be non-Japanese specific, and entry pimped. (3 votes

)

Bishie Sparkles: Move to Animation Tropes. Rewrite. (1 vote

)

Bishōnen Line: Rewrite/TRS 1 vote

I'm not sure on this one. If it's actually a Japanese trope, it should be in Japanese Tropes shouldn't it? If it's not, it can just be in the remove.

We'll probably need a list of "pages that need a rewrite to remove anime/japanese specificness".

Does anyone else agree with my views that moving the visual tropes onto a super index that includes all aspects of visual style would (I called it Japanese Visual Arts Tropes) might curb some of the "Anime is a super special medium that has tons of super special tropes that only Anime uses" that pervades some of these tropes? Because that's at least part of my goal.

Fight smart, not fair.

We definitely need a Japanese Visual Arts Index.

Preference on name or is Japanese Visual Arts sufficiently broad? Or should it be Modern Japanese Visual Arts so that we exclude stuff like this◊?

Fight smart, not fair.