Useful Notes Japan

I have noticed, in the discussion on the Useful Notes on Bra Sizes Got Cut discussion thread, that there seems to be some confusion as to what the Useful Notes namespace is actually for.

As far as I can tell, it is a namespace that is dedicated to useful notes- for example, talking about the geography of settings used in any media, their notable areas and landmarks, things like gun safety, how fighting works in reality, and how space actually works in real life as opposed to its' common depiction in media. Things that help people understand the world around them and how media plays with it.

However, this does not seem to be the case.

So, I ask. What is the Useful Notes namespace actually for?

We also have pages that would be completely alien to the average English speaking viewer like Useful Notes Japan which has Kimono and such it explains things that are just different....

EDIT: wait I thought that was in the Useful Notes section with the actual tropes Kimono Is Traditional, Kimono Fanservice in the main tropes.

Oh its not moved to the Useful Notes namespace yet but in the Index.

(I need to work on that page... Maybe split Yukata off from it.)

edited 4th Aug '11 7:48:55 AM by Raso

You know, that page is largely useless, and lists a lot of Tropes rather than Useful Note articles.

Out of all of them, I can see:

- Imperial Japan

- Japanese Political System

- Kaiju Defense Force

- Katanas Of The Rising Sun

- The 47 Ronin

- Christianity In Japan

- Christmas In Japan

- Doujinshi

- The Four Gods

- Hachiko

- Geisha

... etc, etc.

But even then, they could stand to be put together, like-

Religion in Japan

Mythology in Japan

Culture in Japan

etc etc

Hikikomori is also a trope listed as a useful note.

Not to derail this discussion to being just about UsefulNotes.Japan, I don't think that listing those tropes on the page is meant to indicate that they are also "Useful Notes", but indicating that those are tropes tied to or present in Japanese Culture.

UsefulNotes.Israel does something similar, so there is precedent for it. Though that article has a lot more meat to it beyond the listing of tropes.

By the way, is there an Useful Note for Japan's school system, because if there isn't, there is. Unlike bra side, it plays a role in many works, and consider how different their school system is different from the West, it's worth noting.

Yeah, but that article is set out in a logical manner. It has a basic backdrop of information about the country, then it links to relevant Useful Note pages that contain more in-depth information about various subjects directly relating to the country, and then it presents tropes associated with the country in a manner that does not detract from the article. You can get to the actual information without wading through pages of Tropes.

Anyway.

A single question, to determine this.

What is the purpose of the Useful Notes Namespace?

Is it:

a) To present notes that may be useful for potential writers?

b) To preset notes on how things work in real life as opposed to their common depiction in media?

c) Something else?

And if it is a), then where do we draw the line at what may be seen as useful?

^ There is Cram School, but that would fit under 'Culture in Japan'.

edited 4th Aug '11 8:26:34 AM by CyganAngel

Oh... I feel stupid... That makes a lot of sense.

We have Cram School and thats it... that might be something to work on.

edited 4th Aug '11 8:27:24 AM by Raso

I think Useful Note's basic purpose is to show how Real Life stuff is shown in fiction.

Should we YKKTW Japanese Schools, since it deserves its own page due to having a large presence in anime and manga? Schools appear everywhere in Shonen and Shojo set in the present day. I think Shonen Jump covered it once, so I might look back on my back issues to look it up.

edited 4th Aug '11 8:34:33 AM by chihuahua0

I don't think they exactly require a huge multi-paragraph essay to explain.

Why not simply place it as a subcategory of Culture In Japan?

I haven't gone over this thread in detail but I feel like mentioning that it isn't just that something gets featured heavily in media that gets it a Useful Notes article; it's that media frequently gets it wrong (whether deliberately or not) and that there is value to the reader and/or writer in distinguishing facts from fiction.

If the portrayal of Japanese Schools in media is generally accurate and thorough, then there's no real value in a Useful Notes article. If, however, it's likely to leave an unwary reader believing in the Hollywood version rather than the real thing, than there is value in writing an article on it.

That would be a very good page. We can move some info off the Cram School page too for it.

(long run on paragraph with things that come to my head instantly.)

Explaining Elementary schools do not require uniforms, Middle school is all study, Exams for high school, Fail school exams and your working at Fast Food at the age of 14 thats it... competitively ranked high schools, Japanese School Club, Culture Festival, Sports Festival, Second years are typically the leaders of student councils, Third years its all cram cram cram. College entrance exams, the Modern Rōnin. College students generally get the easy life and slack off now that they have made it and its a running gag how they have all types of free time. differences between Anime Seifuku and Real life...

Oh god its going to be a big page....

No article actually explains the way it shows up in anime its all already required knowledge since the people watching it have gone though it or are currently going though it.

edited 4th Aug '11 8:55:37 AM by Raso

Notice that Fighteer's point is not whether an article here explains how Japanese schooling works or not. His point is whether if we need such an article or not.

This is decided based on whether anime portrays such schools in an inaccurate fashion.

But again no normal English speaker would have any idea WTF is going on in an School Anime hence the Useful Notes on the subject so they can understand all the points above.

We have American Educational System....

edited 4th Aug '11 8:54:06 AM by Raso

@juancarlos: Well, that depends on whether or not transfer students turn out to be people that the main character (ie you) met earlier that morning on the way to school, toast in mouth.

edited 4th Aug '11 8:54:27 AM by EnglishIvy

We really don't need an in-depth analysis, just an overview to explain the basics.

The list I put down is the quick overview of the system and major differences between that and America.

But seriously LOOK at American Educational System.... not just a Wall of Text its the god damn Hoover Dam.

edited 4th Aug '11 8:57:56 AM by Raso

@ Thread title:

Uhh, it really was not meant to be a Japan-specific thing. It was an inquiry to lay down groundworks for what can and cannot be worth a Useful Notes page.

x4 The trope your looking for there is Late for School.

I am sorry for the derail...

edited 4th Aug '11 9:22:31 AM by Raso

I know.

Fighteer: I disagree that there is only value to the reader if media portrays the subject of a Useful Notes page inaccurately.

What is more commonly an issue is that certain things are referenced in a media's culture with the idea that not a whole lot of detail needs to be given, because fans from that culture are already familiar with them.

Since the world has become increasingly globalized, however, more and more media is consumed by viewers all over the world, the majority of whom may not have the cultural background to understand the references made in those media.

The Useful Notes pages can serve as a primer for those fans, giving them detailed knowledge that can help explain things which they don't have the culutral cues to pick up.

For example, if a work centered on schoolchildren makes a passing reference to the American grade/year system, but a viewer from Brazil has a completely different system, they will be understandably confused. However, if they mosey on over to American Educational System, they can find out that grades 6-8 mean middle school, 9-12 means high school, and enough information on the terms "middle" and "high" school to draw a reasonable comparison to their own system.

edited 4th Aug '11 10:49:36 AM by Meeble

I was thinking about it some more and I agree with what you're saying.

edited 4th Aug '11 9:55:38 AM by Fighteer

Oh yeah The school year starts at the last week of march then Golden Week in april one month off for summer one week off for Christmas and new year and the school year ends in march.

Other Japanese School tropes such as Go Stand In The Hall (I think that's the trope name.) with water buckets.

High school it's the teachers that switch classes not the students, they do not have American locker systems and just change in the classroom for PE (guys usually go to even numbered classrooms and girls odd from what I have seen.) this comes off really odd in shows like Haruhi so it will be nice to explain it.

We need an article on the rest of the Japanese Holidays like Japanese Valentines Day too explain that girls are the only ones who give Chocolate on the day (Two different types love and obligation both with specific names I can't remember at the moment.) the guys reciprocate on White Day 3/14. Tana Bata Star Festival Japanese New Year (although that one isn't that different except the elders (Parents and teachers) give "New Years Allowance" to kids and the Temple Visit where you make wishes when you donate to the temple and draw Luck Sticks (bad luck you tie to a tree to nullify it.)

Edit shouldnt the Japanese Holiday tropes be split with lists of series that feature them?

Ok need sleep as I think I am rambling a bit.

edited 4th Aug '11 10:25:27 AM by Raso

Meeble's take on them has always been my understanding of them as well. They're useful, in the sense that they aid understanding of work in some way, for people who are not already familiar with whatever they're about. They're intended to be a quick overview, not a post-grad level, detailed exploration.

edited 4th Aug '11 10:23:10 AM by Madrugada

I think Raso have enough information for an Japanese Schools page.

We should Sandbox it now.

I agree with Meeble. Useful Notes are to help explain stuff in media, and how they compare and contrast to their fiction and Real Life versions.