A single unified LGBTQ+ conversation

I agree that it'd be more satisfying if there was at least some kind of indication of her bisexuality, like how the supposedly-pansexual Deadpool had a female love interest in the movie but frequently made homoerotic comments and overtures throughout the film. But at the same time, that kind of complaint starts to feel like it's encroaching on the storytelling. I wouldn't be offended if a Wonder Woman story didn't make any direct references to her Amazonian origins, so why would I be offended by a lack of direct references to her bisexuality? It's a part of her character, but one that doesn't necessarily have to impact the story directly.

I mean, here's an analogy. I can go days without making any overt reference of indication that I'm gay. You could conceivably tell a story or make a movie about something in my life without ever even alluding to the fact that I'm gay. (Obviously it would probably work better if you chose a period in my life when I was single, but even without that, you could restrict the story to periods when I'm at work or something.) And that wouldn't preclude the fact. You can tell a story like Harry Potter in seven books without ever directly alluding to the fact that Dumbledore is gay, and yet, he still is.

It would be more narratively satisfying to know the character's sexual orientation if there was some indication of it, but at the same time, as long as there aren't any contraindications (such as Wonder Woman rebuffing a woman's flirting and categorically commenting that she's not into women), it doesn't really take away from the idea that she is bi.

Now, at the same time, if I saw a trilogy of Wonder Woman films with three different male love interests and no indication of her bisexuality, that would really throw up a red flag. But one doesn't really bug me. You can be bisexual in a story without having a same-sex relationship involved. Or any relationship, as Bleye said.

edited 13th Oct '16 12:57:41 PM by SolipSchism

Hrm.

I guess I'm mostly worried that Wonder Woman will be shown as being straight in the future DCEU movies instead of as bi. She's the single most visible female superhero, so erasing her bisexuality is something I, as a bi man, am really worried about.

I can respect that. Like I said, multiple movies in the same vein would create a problem.

I can smell the potential for being yelled at for having an opinion on bisexual erasure when I'm not bisexual, but I still want to reiterate what I said earlier: Complaining about a single story where a bisexual character is in an opposite-sex relationship is tantamount to saying that bisexual characters should only have same-sex relationships, specifically in order to show that they're not straight.

Which by extension really feels like saying that if a character isn't straight, they should not be in opposite-sex relationships.

Which feels like saying that characters shouldn't be bisexual at all, they should only be gay or straight.

Which bothers me, not as a gay person, but as a queer person.

edited 13th Oct '16 1:02:47 PM by SolipSchism

Okay, I know the context for this really well, so here goes.

Wonder Woman is a bisexual character. She was based off of two bisexual women (her creator's wife and their live in girlfriend, who continued to live with his wife after he died). This was explicitly stated earlier this year.

Now, Wonder Woman's love interest in the movie is a dude named Steve Trevor, who has been her on again, off again love interest in the comics since her creation.

However, because of the timeframe of everything, Steve will be long dead by the time of the other DC films WW is in. He fought in WWI, so uh... He's not kicking anymore.

Also, Deadpool got a movie where he had a female love interest, while the character is pansexual. If they give Wonder Woman a female love interest in a later movie, or reference her liking women at some point, that's awesome. But at the same time, she's bi whether she's with a dude or a woman.

Also, Gay Star News has a long history of sensationalizing. They hear rumors and ambiguous statements, and they jump up trees. This begs for more info.

edited 13th Oct '16 1:19:05 PM by SpaceWolf

I didn't know that. I just saw that Rabbit had linked the article on his Facebook, read it, got a bit angered and felt that it bore the need to be posted on here.

Also, it's important to remember that DC isn't shy about LGBT characters at all. Batwoman openly flirts with women and calls herself gay in an animated movie that came out a few years ago, she's getting her own comic early next year, Wonder Woman is now explicitly bisexual, and they're teaming up with IDW to release a giant comic celebrating LGBT people and couples, with the proceeds going to help the victims of Pulse.

(smokey's first comment on the subject) +1

edited 13th Oct '16 1:25:52 PM by SolipSchism

From my understanding, a big factor in the lack of LGBT diversity (or hell, a lot of diversity in general) in major blockbusters is because of the Chinese market being where a lot of money is made. The big comic companies have pandered to China in the past (Doctor Strange racelifted a Tibetan character because of the controversy over the Chinese rule of Tibet, for example). Deadpool was banned in China and made tons of money, but it had a much lower budget than The Avengers (though the amount of money it did make it nothing to sneeze at).

That is a massive factor. And to be honest, it's probably going to get bigger as Chinese companies are apparently buying up major US studios.

Yeah, that's something I'm really pissed about. Hell, they had to cut out a scene of Sulu kissing his husband in Star Trek: Beyond because China didn't want it.

edited 13th Oct '16 1:34:04 PM by AdricDePsycho

I wonder if that kind of thing can be mitigated by having Director's Cuts released on home video?

That wouldn't solve the larger problem of it happening in the first place, but at least those of us who want to invest in seeing the movie properly might be able to.

And of course it would suck to only have what pretty much amounts to Bowdlerised-before-birth versions available in the cinema, since the cinema itself is a big part of the movie experience.

So am I to take it there's no reaction to more news about how the NHS' support for trans patients sucks rocks?

This asshole governor is way too dense

edited 13th Oct '16 1:57:11 PM by Konkfan7

Man, you know, I really feel for him. It must be so hard, being told that you're not welcome, and feeling unwanted and persecuted. It's gotta suck being told people don't want you around.

Fuckin' knob-goblin. Man should be slapped over the head with a hardback of 1984 until he realizes what it's actually fuckin' about.

The fact that he made a Big Brother comparison made me lose any possibility of having even the tiniest ounce of sympathy for him.

It's like a second Godwin's Law, almost.

edited 13th Oct '16 2:03:05 PM by Konkfan7

He's a modern day version of George Wallace.

Admittedly, my first thought until I saw which governor that was about was Maine's, who's basically Trump without the glamour

edited 13th Oct '16 2:46:48 PM by sgamer82

DBL, that's really disappointing, but based on the article, all signs point to the healthcare professionals surveyed being willing, but just untrained in providing proper care. Can't you specifically seek out providers who advertise that they are experienced and qualified in caring for trans patients? I dunno how it works in the UK, but I know here in the US you generally have a choice of providers, and you can read up on their websites, patient reviews, etc., to decide who you trust and want to visit as a patient.

There's a grand total of seven places in England / Wales that offer care for transgender patients on the NHS.

Yes, but can you research the doctors and nurses employed by your local one? Do you have a local choice, and if so, do any of those choices specifically advertise that they are trained and prepared to render care to trans patients? If they don't advertise it, can you call them and ask?

edited 13th Oct '16 3:36:43 PM by SolipSchism

My observations, as the transgender son of a healthcare professional, is that most healthcare professionals are willing to learn, even if they know very little about trans people. I mean, my local clinic (I go to my dad's clinic because I always get bulk billed and I'm a cheapskate) has been really cool about my transition and have been doing there best to research about hormones and side effects and all that, to make my transition easier.

Also hot, beardy Irishman is coming to our LGBT group tonight.

edited 13th Oct '16 3:43:11 PM by trashconverters

Apparently the NC governor's upset that his friends are shunning him and his wife over that law.

The poor dear.

Whoops

edited 13th Oct '16 4:24:34 PM by Bisected8