The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim 2 / Headscratchers

The Companions

"He's wearing that armor...."

When the Silver Hand ambush you and Farkas in Dustman's Cairn, one of them asks which one of the Circle Farkas is. Another shuts him up by saying that he's wearing the Companion's armour and so he dies, despite Farkas being the only member of the Circle who doesn't wear Companion armour.
- It's likely this was an oversight by the developers, but it's also possible that the Silver Hands recognize Farkas' armor as being Skyforge steel. Eorlund Gray-Mane is a famous smith, after all, and it's common knowledge that he supplies the Companions with weapons and armor.
- Minor aside; Farkas isn't the only member of the Circle who doesn't wear wolf armor. Aela wears ancient Nordic armor.

Werewolves in Jorrvaskr

Didn't people start asking questions around the fourth time a werewolf came from Jorrvaskr and rampaged throughout Whiterun?
- They don't know exactly where the werewolves keep coming from. The Companions do their thing in the middle of the night when most people are asleep and the guys on guard duty are walking around with torches which limit their vision and make it really hard to tell where something came from. All the guards really know is "Suddenly, a werewolf!"
- Also, note that there is another passage leading out from under the Skyforge and into the plains surrounding Whiterun. It could be that previous initiates into the Circle were herded out this particular tunnel. You just happened to go so wild that the Companions couldn't keep you from running amok through the city.
- In addition, it doesn't happen that often. There's only five other members of the Circle, so that's only a half-dozen times in recent memory. Plus from what the other Companions say of yours and Farkas's transformations, the transformation isn't normally so violent; people don't always go berserk on their first transformation.
  - And that's also assuming that you did terrorize the town, instead of just avoiding people until you changed back.
- Thing is, it's mentioned that the Companions have had a few werewolves in their ranks for a few hundred years now. While it doesn't happen too often, it's been going on for centuries. I'd be surprised if the Jarl of Whiterun wasn't in on it. Vignar is almost certainly aware of it, at least.

The Companions' size relative to Whiterun

Does anyone notice that the Companions are like half the population of Whiterun? Doesn't the Jarl ever get scared that they might just one day overthrow him and take the city for themselves?
- Inconsistent scaling. Whiterun's population is probably several hundred thousand people (Skyrim was mentioned as having very populous cities), while the companions are a relatively small group, probably no more than a few hundred.
- Plus, very much not their style. The Companions are an honourable warrior band, rising up and taking over cities would be utterly against their nature.
  - It's not this group of companion's style. Vilkas mentions that over the years(and the companions have been around for nearly five thousand years) the companions have gone through periods of being conquering armies and marauding bandits. There's a book in Kodlak's den that details some of the more notable harbingers of the past, and mentions that they went through at least one period of several dishonorable, corrupt harbingers in a row. It likely comes down to the fact that the companions have always been sellswords; conquering one of your best potential clients isn't exactly good business.
  - Plus, if you conquer the city, then you have to run the city. Fighting, drinking, fighting some more and then sleeping it off to do it all again tomorrow is a lot more fun than playing politics.
- Also, the Jarl is aware that they could do something like this. If you listen to him talking to his brother, he makes a remark about how he will not send more aid to the Legion because he won't leave Whiterun undefended, even though the Companions could and would protect it. Vignar Gray-Mane is a Companion, and his family are known Stormcloak sympathizers - if the Stormcloaks win, Vignar becomes Jarl.

Lazy Whiterun guards

After the player goes on a revenge mission against the Silver Hand for Aela, what were the Whiterun guards doing when the group attacked Jorrvaskr in retaliation? How did they manage to make it that far within the city gates?
- They presumably walked in peaceably until they reached Jorrvaskr, then drew weapons and attacked. They may have used disguises, or simply passed themselves off as sellswords or traders or something else to bypass the guards.
  - Except Sellswords & Traders aren't currently allowed to enter Whiterun. (Remember how you were only allowed in because you had to talk to the Jarl about dragons?) Same reason for the Alik'r whom you see being denied entry.
  - No they're not. If they were, Whiterun wouldn't be getting any new products in and the shopkeepers wouldn't be able to restock. Whiterun only temporarily barred traders and other travelers entry because of the dragon threat, and once you've finished "Dragon Rising" that ends. They can't be permanently barring people entry because Whiterun is the primary trading hub of all of Skyrim. And, worst comes to worst, the Silver Hand could just bribe their way past the guards just like you can.
  - They clearly still are barring the entry after "Dragon Rising" as the Alik'r are denied entry, and their presence only triggers once "Dragon Rising" is finished.
  - The Alik'r are only being denied entry because one of them did something dumb/aggressive enough to land him in jail.
  - The Alik'r are the only example, and that's because they got the guards' attention; even Saadia points out that the Alik'r will likely be able to get in later and may just bribe the guards to get them past. Regardless, Whiterun does continue to get new stock regularly, so traders are clearly passing through, and there's traffic passing through the gate regularly from the various farmers. Couriers also regularly pass through the gates. A few Silver Hand could likely get through without any immediate trouble.
- Maybe they found the secret entrance in the Underforge.
- Another possibility is the Silver Hand told the Whiterun guards that they are werewolf hunters (which is true) and were investigating werewolves in the area. The guards may have let them in due to the Dragonborn's transformation. Even if the player chose not to kill anyone or even move around too much, a good deal of noise was made during the change into a werewolf if the regular transformation sequence is any indication. After all, a low level Speech option about Dragons gave the Dragonborn access to the city. Maybe the Silver Hand did the same thing but with werewolves.
  - It seems logical, especially since the players will have rampaged across town during his first transformation. "We're here to ferret out the werewolf that terrified everyone!" "Oh please come in!"

Aela's Bloodlust

Okay, is their an in universe reason for why we can't try to talk Aela out of wiping out the Silver Hand? Yes, they killed Skjor, but we really didn't know him all that well, and we might not want to pick unnecessary fights. I could see where the quest was going from the moment knew Skjor went off alone.
- Aela's pissed? I mean, she's really fucking angry that they killed Skjor. He was her lover, after all. She's not just flipping out because a friend died.
- Is there an in universe reason why you'd want to? You've joined a Band of Brothers mercenary organisation and learned that their nemeses are a group of bigoted amoral brigands. Is there any particular reason why you'd not want to kill them?
- In short, she's on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge. You'd be pretty pissed too if a group of bigoted mercenaries captured and tortured your loved one to the point of death just because he was a werewolf. And dozens of others as well from the looks of it.
- OP here: wow, before anyone else bites my head off, I should clarify: from my understanding Skjor was one of the head honchos of the Companions, we aren't given much chance to get to know him, and hell the first quest I got from them was to go beat up Ysolda, my point is, why does Aela automatically enlist YOU to run her revenge campaign and not say Vilkas and Farkas, who actually knew him well.
  - Because she's running interference for you to run the campaign, and Aela knows Kodlak won't approve of the quest for revenge. Its easier for her to use a relative newcomer to carry out the campaign of vengeance than someone who is more likely to report what's happening to Kodlak.
  - There's also that with Skjor down, the only other members of the Circle available to help Aela out are Kodlak, Vilkas, Farkas, and you. Kodlak is the guy Aela is trying to keep it from. Vilkas won't do vengeance murder for Skjor (it takes killing Kodlak himself to make Vilkas even temporarily go into vengeance mode, and afterward he calms down he says that he should never have done it), and Farkas not only can't keep a secret but does whatever his brother tells him to. That leaves you.

Joining the Circle

Why isn't there an option when you Join the Circle to simply refuse Skjor's offer of beastblood. He makes it clear that neither he nor Aela will force it upon you, and the Dragonborn has by this point already heard the specifics of beastblood from Kodlak, including of how it binds your soul to Hircine and, if you're a Nord, bars you from the Hall of Valour, so there's enough reason for a Dragonborn who agrees with Kodlak's beliefs or is a Nord to decline the offer. Hell, even before that quest you're made an official member of the Circle, with the meeting in the Underforge basically Skjor being a pusher-man and trying to pressurise you into taking some of that "sweet Wolf's blood." Surely the Dragonborn is well within his right to tell Skjor and Aela to go to the Deadlands, right?
- You can just refuse. It doesn't advance the Companions questline any further, but the option is open there.
- Why doesn't it advance the questline?
- Not choosing to become a werewolf doesn't advance the werewolf-centric questline. Shocking, I know. And yes, before you repeat what's been said a million times across the internet, yes, there are any number of possible ways that they could have continued that particular plotline without you becoming a werewolf, etc.
- Well, sure but why have Skjor tell you you can refuse the beast blood in the first place? It doesn't make any sense for him to say 'yeah, it's cool if you don't wanna be a werewolf, you can still be a part of the circle' if it's not gonna advance the companion's questline until you do
  - Because the succeeding quest depends on you becoming a werewolf. Remember, Aela considers the raid on the Silver Hand hideout that gets Skjor killed as a "celebration" of the player becoming a werewolf. If you don't become a werewolf, you won't be raiding the hideout.

Why Does Aela suffer no consequences for her actions?

Her and Skjor's bloodlust, which is noted by Kodlak himself as going well beyond the acceptable boundaries of Nordic culture, is the direct cause of the Silver Hand's raid on Jorrvaskr that not only saw Kodlak himself killed but which also likely resulted in the deaths of several bystanders, not to mention the loss of the shards of Skyrim's most treasured artefact. For that alone Farkas or more likely Vilkas should have taken her aside and hammered into her, if not ejected her from the Circle entirely. This could also easily apply to the player character as well for having been blithely complicit in her actions (and perhaps even more responsible for the retaliation that came about).
- The Silver Hand likely would have attacked anyway. That the raid was launched after Aela conducted her own operation doesn't negate the fact that the Silver Hand are deadly enemies who attack the Companions unprovoked every time we see them. That and the Circle are all Nords. Going out to attack your enemies isn't something to be admonished over in Nord culture.
- On a similar note, why doesn't anyone else aside from Kodlak notice her and my lengthy absences from Jorrvaskr and get suspicious? Especially since everyone knows that Skjor was killed by the Silver Hand and Aela was close to him? And yes, I know that these games run on perpetually buggy engines that would have made it difficult for them to script these kinds of conversations into quests.
  - The Companions are allowed to come and go as they please, and Aela and Skjor have been known to go out on lengthy "hunts" before. There's no reason for the others to be suspicious.

Kodlak's condition

This literally just occurred to me. We know that Kodlak is not able to go hunting any longer because he's elderly and dying. If you read the official strategy guide, it explains that about a year before the time of the game, he contracted "the rot" (whatever that is) and is slowly losing his fight with it. Here's the thing: Kodlak is a werewolf. Werewolves in Skyrim are explicitly immune to all diseases. So how is Kodlak dying from a disease he never should have been able to get?
- I've not read the strategy guide so please disregard this theory if the guide explicitly states that "the rot" is an out-and-out disease you can pick up, but if not, then perhaps "the rot" simply refers to the way the body begins to deteroriate from age? After all, Kodlak is very old and his long life as a warrior would naturally wear his body down, even if he isn't able to contract an illness. Maybe Kodlak's life is simply running out from sheer age, thus his body is "rotting."
  - "The rot" is almost certainly old age. Nurelion in "The White Phial" is dying of the same thing.
- No, I don't think it's old age. The guide explicitly states that he contracted "the rot," which makes it sound like a disease or chronic ailment. It doesn't go into further detail about what it is beyond that, but it does say that he contracted it, so that doesn't sound like regular aging.

The College of Winterhold

Thalmor and the College

Why is there a Thalmor ambassador in the College of Winterhold? At the start of the game, the city is Stormcloak-aligned, so it is unlikely the government forced the mages. The Thalmor has disdain for the magic of the college, so he isn't there to study. All we know is that he is an advisor to the arch-mage, but it is never made clear what he advises on (considering his opinion on the studies at the college, it is unlikely to be related to that.)
- The College maintains independent ties with Cyrodiil and the Summerset Isles.
- Furthermore, although they look down upon the magic practiced there, the college is pretty much the only Magical hub in the whole of Skyrim, and they could stumble upon something of interest to the Thalmor (which you do). Not having an ambassador there would just be silly.
- It does make sense from the perspective of the Thalmor, yes, but why did the college want him there? If you're trying to not piss off the native populace, inviting their worst enemy to live with you is not a very good idea.
- The College doesn't want him. It's made pretty clear that none of the College's professors trust him at all, but it's more than likely they didn't have a choice in the matter. When a representative of the world's most insidious and ruthless secret police force shows up and says, "I'm going to hang out and... observe things," you don't refuse him if you have anything remotely akin to self-preservation instincts.
- Better the devil you know than the one you don't. The Thalmor are going to spy on the College; better to have their agent out in the open where you can control at least some of what he sees than wonder which of your initiates is actually a Thalmor spy.

The Midden

What is the deal with the Midden in College of Winterhold? It seems to be the same size of the rest of the college, is decorated with skulls, heavily damaged, infested with the undead and the location of several powerful daedric artifacts(the hand and the Atronach forge) to boot. It evidently wasn't destroyed by the flood, as everyone says that the college was practically untouched. It also seems unlikely that it was the augur, as he doesn't seem all that aggressive, and it is doubtful a college of researching mages would just up and abandon something like the Atronach forge without good reason.
- It's a sewer. Like many sewers in video games, it's inhabited entirely by people who don't want to be seen. All the projects down there were secret, probably unapproved by the College. They're still down there because it'd take too much effort to dismantle them.
- Except that a) it is fairly explicitly a former part of the college and b) the Atronach forge was not constructed by the mages of Winterhold.
- Of course it's a former part of the College. It's the College's sewer, likely built when the structure's foundations were first laid. As for the origins of the Atronach Forge, it appears to have some Dwarven components (the doors on the offering box, for example), so make of that what you will.

The Thieves’ Guild

Karliah's poison

In the Thieves Guild quest, Karliah claims she couldn't get a clear shot on Frey and shot you instead. How the hell could she NOT have a clear shot? It was a huge ass chamber with a large entry point, and Frey was hardly holding you in front of him like a human shield.
- It's possible she was afraid that the Goddamned Dragonborn would think that she was trying to kill Mercer because she's a backstabbing traitor who abandoned Mercer, and the order, not the other way around.
- Wasn't he? I'm pretty sure he takes his sweet time about entering the chamber. I thought she chose to shoot you because she figured the very moment Mercer suspected you could be a witness, he would have run you through, and she needed someone alive who knows Mercer's a traitor.
- Karliah's downfall was that shooting you lost any element of surprise or stealth attacks she was riding on. The fact that she makes a HUGE deal about being concerned that the player can't defeat Frey alone later in the quest implies that she couldn't beat Frey one on one herself without that advantage. She also mentioned that the act of saving your life directly ruined her chances, so that also would've played a huge part in the failure.
- Why couldn't she wait? The Dragonborn is barely through the door when she shoots. She didn't give Mercer any time to see if he would enter. Again, its a huge chamber and she's in a pretty safe position. And she's such an awesome shot that she can hit the Dragonborn even if he's invisible, ethereal, whirlwind sprinting, and-or slow-timed. She can hit him mid-sprint. If she's that good, she can hit Mercer. And it would be easy enough to write around this. She shoots, misses. You go back. She sends you a note, you meet her at her camp, the quest goes normal from there.
- After the Dragonborn wakes up in Karliah's tent, Karliah does mention her nerves getting the better of her. I believe she says that is part of the reason why she (perhaps accidentally) shoots the dragonborn instead of Mercer.
Okay. Let's think this through. You are accompanying the Guild Master to confront the person who you've been led to believe betrayed and murdered the previous Guild Master. So far, everything you've seen and heard pointed to this. So, if Karliah shoots Mercer dead when you enter the chamber, and then claims that HE was the traitor the whole time, would you believe her? At that moment, you'd have no reason not to kill her yourself. Her shooting you instead of Mercer enabled you be in a position to hear Frey's confession about his part in Gallus' death. Thus, you KNOW Karliah is telling the truth, which would not had she just shot Mercer.
To compound on the element of surprise, it's possible Karliah, being intimate with the supernatural aspect of Nocturne, understood that Mercer would invariably detect her presence (or the presence of whatever danger) if she waited even a split second too long. Additionally, if Nocturne wasn't completely put out by Mercer's betrayal, Daedric fickleness might illustrate her to be impressed(even honored) by his deceit(shadowy)-oriented theft and allowed him to retain the supernatural abilities of the Agent of Shadows, et. al., thus, again, granting him a preternatural awareness. Kudos accepted.
Mercer didn't bring you with him because he needed your help; with the Skeleton Key, he could have made it through the ruins on his own just fine. He brought you along precisely to use you as a meat shield. Sure, he wasn't actively holding you in front of him, but he tells you to lead for a reason. The element of surprise is Karliah's only weapon, and she's a master marksman. It's not hard to parse that she would be planning to shoot him somewhere in those ruins, so he sends the dragonborn ahead to catch the blow. From Karliah's perspective: Mercer put her in a hard place by bringing someone along. Like mentioned above, even if she was successful in shooting Mercer, she'd now have you to contend with. And given that her actions at that point completely line up with what Mercer told you about her, why would you believe he was the traitor after watching her shoot the guildmaster? She'd either end up being killed by you, or having to kill a relatively innocent person. And if she did end up killing you, now she's got extremely flimsy ground to go to the guild and claim innocence. She already has Gallus' journal, after all, and that's the most important thing. She's better off trying to save you and earning herself an ally than she is trying to shoot Mercer and compounding her problems.

Incompetent thieves

How come that thieves you meet in the wild accost you with traditional "your money or your life" (and they always mean it), even if Thieves Guild is pretty adamant that killing on the job is bad for business? They are members of the Guild because when you are also a member, you can go free by pointing it out. And your assailants still decide to let you go even if it means that you can expose their questionable methods to the Guild leaders.
- They're robbing people on the road in the first place, in bloody Skyrim. They have to be prepared to kill. The Thieves' Guild frowns on killing on the job, but if you've got to put steel in someone's gut, its better to have a murder than be empty-handed.
- You could also argue that this is a case of Schrödinger's Gun. If you never bring up the fact that you're in the Guild, then this so-called "Thief" was just some jerk who accosted and tried to kill you. However, if you do bring up the fact that you're in the Guild, then it turns out that he's a member as well, and it could very well be that the whole "Your money or your life" line is just a threat designed to loosen peoples' purse strings as quickly as possible. In short, the player's choice determines which of two mutually exclusive realities manifests itself.
- Brynjolf only discourages killing actual clients, which include people they regularly extort money from, people who hire them for robbery jobs and those important to them, and people who not only have objects of value, but also means to get them. Some random bum traveling Skyrim likely isn't a frequent client of the guild, and probably carries everything of value on his persons. Between dying to the Thief and dying to some random bear attack in the wild only has one difference: both are likely and only one will end up with the thief running off with the loot.
- Or they're not actually in the Guild, but don't want to cross them. Perhaps most shady types have heard that the Guild has contacts in the Dark Brotherhood (and even if not, getting on their bad side would still be a bad idea; hell, the fact that they have plenty of guards in their pockets means that someone trying to mug a member of the Guild could wind up being framed for enough crimes to draw a massive bounty in all of the holds at once). Acting like they're in with the Guild could mean the two of you sharing a laugh over a little misunderstanding instead of them being robbed of everything they own, thrown in a dungeon, and killed in their sleep.
- Brynjolf also specifies the reason for their discouraging killing as a purely business matter; it means having to pay off guards, dispose of bodies, and other hassles that cost time and money. Killing a traveler out on the road, however, makes that easy. Your body can be dragged off the beaten path twenty paces, hidden in some bushes, and animals will take care of the rest within a week. Guard patrols along the roads are thin and searches for missing people don't seem to be done by law enforcement, but rather by private parties hired by their family. Also, no witnesses.
- Also remember that the Thieves' Guild does engage in brigandage. Sapphire's crew hit Shadr's shipment, for example, and Delvin's "numbers jobs" are explicitly preparation so that Guild crews can hit shipments to said business without anyone noticing that their stock has actually gone missing or a shipment is overdue. So the Guild does do some robbery on the side in addition to extortion, pickpocketing, smuggling, and break-ins.
- Remember that the rule (which is barely enforced with which to begin), is no killing on the job. As long as the player isn't specifically targeted by the guild (which seems unlikely, as he might very well be guild leader at this point), the thief is free to do what he wants, including killing civilians, guards or royalty.

Karliah's poison

Why does Karliah's paralysis poison affect a vampire, who has total poison immunity? One could argue that one of the benefits of this unique recipe was the ability to affect vampires, but she developed the formula for the express purpose of taking down the very-much-alive Mercer. Going out of her way and delaying her revenge even longer in order to affect an entirely different group with a poison of which she only makes one dose anyway would not make much sense.
- Immunity is your body's ability to resist a foreign agent, your body learns from experience with being exposed to harmful biological agents, like poison, multiple times and then develops a natural resistance to it. However there is no such thing as total immunity, it doesn't matter if you have the ability to resist a dosage that would kill one person if you are exposed to a dosage that would make a dozen men shit their organs out of their bodies and turn their flesh into mush. Perhaps Karliah put such an incredible dosage of poison in that potion that even a vampire's natural immunity can't do much to stop it.
  - Except that Vampires aren't immune due to biological resistance. They are immune because they are already dead. Because they don't have biological processes for the poison to affect. That's why they don't show on Detect Life but do on Detect Dead.
  - A vampire being dead doesn't stop them from being burned by magical fire. The affects of poisons are explicitly magical in nature. Biological resistance protects you from disease and being dead prevents a disease or natural poison from spreading, but alchemical effects are magical in nature and can affect even the undead. Karliah chose a poison whose effects were magical in nature, rather than simply a natural poison. Since no brewable potion or poison in-game mimics Karliah's poison, and Mercer didn't seem to think it was being used to keep you alive, it's safe to assume she used some very exotic alchemy to create the effect, and this is certainly possible; we know from The Infernal City that it's possible to make an "impossible" flying potion but it requires unknown ingredients from the Deadlands, so a potion able to paralyze vampires is entirely plausible, but it would likely require obscure ingredients.
  - Once again, necessary Railroading. The questline would go too off the rails if you'd never been able to experience Mercer's deception or if you would have killed Karliah then.

Gelebor and Gallus' journal

Aside from the fact that it would make the quest too easy, why couldn't Gelebor be able to translate Gallus's journal? It's evident from speaking to him that he understands modern Tamrielic. What Could Have Been....
- For the same reason you can't tell Maven Black-Briar "Oh, you'll call the Dark Brotherhood? You mean that Dark Brotherhood that I single-handedly slaughtered? Yea, good luck with that." when she mouths off to you. A lot of quests simply don't interconnect, even though really, they probably should.
- There's also the fact that Gelebor is DLC only. The quest had to be scripted to run with or without him, since the vanilla game was out for quite some time before Dawnguard was released.

Brynjolf reading Gallus' journal

How is it that Brynjolf is able to read Gallus' journal? It's written in Ancient Falmer, and Enthir is only able to read it with the charcoal imprints the Dragonborn retrieved from Calcelmo's laboratory, which they and Karliah left in Winterhold.
- Enthir probably wrote out the translation, giving Karliah something solid to show the Guild.

Ages

Delvin doesn't look particularly old, nor does he use the "elder" wrinkled head and body meshes, yet he is consistently spoken about as though he's old. He even refers to himself as old, but when considering his physical appearance and a Breton's extended lifespan, isn't he only old by Nordic/Imperial/Redguard standards? Wouldn't he still be middle-aged by a Breton's standards?
- He might simply be one of those people who ages gracefully and looks younger than he really is, especially if he takes care of himself and eats well.
Additionally, when Karliah gifts her bow to the Dragonborn, she claims she's had it "almost her entire life". However, she's an elf, which means her lifespan is very long in comparison to a human's. Specifically, it means she would have lived quite a long time before meeting Gallus and becoming a Nightingale. Given that Gallus was human, he, Mercer, and Karliah couldn't have been Nightingales for that long (by elven standards, anyways) before Gallus' death. Even accounting for the 25 years afterward, it still doesn't seem like Karliah could conceivably have been a Nightingale for "almost her entire life".
- Karliah's exact age is never specified. Though elves live longer than humans, they seem to grow up at a similar pace and reach maturity at the same age.

Mercer Frey, Unstoppable Badass

So before you can go after Mercer Frey, Karliah insists on taking you and Brynjolf to become Nightingales. She insists it's the only way you'll ever stand a chance against him... But like, why though? He may be a master swordsman with some degree of magical talent, but he's still just a guy. You outnumber him three to one, and the Dragonborn alone can (and may indeed already have) kill much more powerful entities like Alduin, Miraak, Eye of Magnus-boosted Ancano, Harkon, and numerous other dragons, Daedra and monsters. He does have the Skeleton Key, but it wouldn't do much to help him in a fight, and the player may well have a dozen other powerful Daedric artifacts of their own by that point. It seems a bit silly to say you have to basically sell your soul to Nocturnal for a shot at taking down a guy who's maybe one degree above Badass Normal.
- We, the players, know that he's not that difficult an opponent to beat, but Karliah doesn't. She assumes that Mercer is too powerful to beat without Nocturnal's blessing, and she's right in the sense that if only one or two people went after him they'd be dead due to his illusions confusing combatants into attacking each other. Karliah doesn't have perfect foresight and can only speak of what she assumes, and in this case she simply overestimated Mercer's abilities and underestimated the Dragonborn's.

The Dark Brotherhood

The Dark Brotherhood setup

So, the Dark Brotherhood goes to all the trouble of hunting you down, subduing you, and spiriting you away to a secluded location for your "recruitment." And this after possibly having made several attempts on your life via hired thugs you encounter in the game world. Why don't they take the next logical step and strip you of your armour and all but one weak weapon to perform the killing? Otherwise, it's just laughably easy to bump off the DB member who's supervising the proceedings. Worse yet, she registers no surprise or apprehension when you approach her with a warhammer readied. Granted, magicka-based players would still be a threat, but still...
- Stripping you of your equipment would railroad you into one particular method of killing. Astrid isn't just seeing if you have the will to murder someone under orders (though that is her main objective), she also wants to observe exactly how you operate, and therefore what she can expect to put up with once you're integrated into the "family." While it would've been cool if she did react more to the player attacking her (boss fight, anyone?), her final words seem to indicate that, for whatever reason, she accepts her death just as well. Perhaps it's the will of Sithis?
  - Fair point about Astrid's last words. It's just that, under the circumstances, it was like Al Quaeda capturing the crew of a main battle tank and then allowing them to keep their tank while in captivity. Moreover, the game has shown us both a hand-binding mechanic and a Thu`um muffling mechanic (Ulfric being gagged in the opening scene), not to mention NPC behaviour being influenced by drawn weapons. The sequence easily could have been made to feel more dangerous, with the choice to attack the Dark Brotherhood rather than obeying them feeling more consequential and satisfying as a result.
- Astrid was likely being optimistic and willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, because you pretty much outright said that you wanted to become a member of the Dark Brotherhood when you accepted Aretino's contract. Most people, when confronted with a child who wants to have an assassin murder an old lady would just back out, but you actively sought the kid out, listened to his request, and killed Grelod. Astrid's got a decent reason to think you're interested in joining the Brotherhood and has good reason to let you keep your gear.
  - Well, if that's the case, they must have been pretty desperate to acquire new talent. Enough so, in fact, to set aside concerns about infiltration that plague every clandestine organization at odds with authority. Infiltrating the DB is a valid motivation for a notionally "good" character to bump off Grelod. On the other hand, I guess it could be considered counter-intuitive for the Dragonborn to kill her in a bid to join the Brotherhood, unless of course the player is meta-gaming...
  - Um, yes, they are pretty desperate, seeing as they all but ceased to exist and cannot work normally anymore, are short a Listener, don't have new recruits at all, and so on...
  - Given that it is entirely possible for the Dragonborn to hear of Grelod's cruelty before going to Aretino, it doesn't seem all that strange that a Dragonborn could be roleplayed as sufficiently ruthless and bloodthirsty to kill Grelod for Aretino while also being too moral to work for the Dark Brotherhood (seeing murder as a solution doesn't necessarily mean you are a cruel, murderous bastard, after all).
- Also on the Dark Brotherhood ending, why did Astrid think that Maro would be totally cool with her as long as she just handed you to him? There doesn't seem to be a good reason for him to really stick to the deal since he'd probably know that she was the one who ordered you to kill his son.
  - It was a pretty stupid move on her part. But the other reason she made the deal was that she wanted you dead and gone too. During her confession, she admitted that she just wanted things to go back to the way they were before Cicero, the Night Mother, and you showed up. She was probably thinking "two birds with one stone".
  - Maro may have already found the sanctuary and was about to strike, and Astrid learned about it. In an attempt to avoid it, she offered to let Maro take revenge on the player (who killed his son) and, probably, to give up on Motierre's contract in exchange for sparing the others. It was still stupid of her to not anticipate getting crossed (indeed, combined with her letting the player keep their gear makes me think that she's way too trusting for a leader of the DB), but I guess it's something.
  - Maro had, indeed, found out about the sanctuary. If you kill Astrid rather than be recruited by her, he tells you where the sanctuary is right on the spot.
  - Maro apparently didn't have much reason to pursue the Dark Brotherhood until you either killed Astrid or started the contract with Motierre. In the former he just learned you killed their leader, leaving the DB disorganized and easy for an assault, while in the latter you killed his son and framed him for treason. The man obviously had his berserk button smashed at that point.

The Emperor and the Brotherhood

Why is the Emperor so... accepting of death, anyway? Is he remorseful over the banning of Talos worship, is he really just that tired of the world, or does he simply realize that it's impossible to stop you and decides to go along with it peacefully?
- It is probably a combination of factors - remorse over having had to sign the White-Gold Concordat (not just the banning of Talos parts), realizing that it is impossible to stop you, realizing that whoever got you to do it may simply find another way if you die, being a bit tired of the world from the stresses of running the Empire in a time of extreme crisis...
- That, and he realizes that with him gone, a more competent heir may take the throne; so you may have actually done him and the Empire a huge favor, and not even realize it.
- He indicated that he didn't think the Brotherhood would be so easily stopped even before you reached him. He'd probably done his best to get things in order and reach acceptance of what was happening as soon as the first hint of the plot appeared. Once you get to him, you've already dealt with a number of people who are would have had a better chance of stopping you than him. Regardless of any other reason he might have accepted it, there was little reason for him to think he had a way out of it at that point.

Astrid and the Dark Brotherhood

One of the conflicts in the Dark Brotherhood questline involves Astrid evidently abandoning the Five Tenets for a more standard rule of "Respect the family". The thing is, isn't that what the Five Tenets was all about? Don't do anything to mess with the Brotherhood and be a good little killer who follows Sithis/The Night Mother. Exactly what did Astrid do that was considered heretical?
- Making a deal with the enemy of the Dark Brotherhood in an effort to kill you comes to mind...
  - The problem is, that wasn't just heretical, it was against the new rule too: you're not respecting your family if you are arranging for a member's death because his joining happened to coincide with a lot of change. Plus, she was supposed to be doing heretical things before that.
- Astrid had basically declared herself Night Mother. "Respect the family" meant "Respect, obey, and never question my commands because I am the head of this family.' The first'' of the Tenets is Never Dishonor the Night Mother. The second is Never Betray the Dark Brotherhood or it secrets. Astrid broke the two big ones. And likely the rest as well, but off screen.
- My question is... How did she get burnt? Did she do that herself or...did someone else do it?
- The black sacrament, the ritual used to invoke the Dark Brotherhood, involves taking part of the target's body (like nails or finger clippings) and burning it. In this case, she used her whole body instead.
  - You're also suppose to stab the effigy with a nightshade-coated dagger and chant. Given that she was still very much alive and Nazir and Babette didn't hear her at all, the Night Mother probably took pity on her halfassed black sacrament, and she just got burnt in the sanctuary fire.
  - Also, as the contract giver, she needed to be still alive in order for her to tell the Dark Brotherhood assassin who to kill. Of course, the victim was herself, but I'm not sure the Night Mother cared that much in this case.
- Speaking of Astrid's betrayal: Did she go to Maro asking him to kill you? Or did he come to her saying, "I know where your hideout is. Tell me how you plan to kill the Emperor or I'll burn it down with you inside it." And if Astrid did contact Maro, how did he learn of the location of the Sanctuary?
  - In the 'good' version of the Dark Brotherhood quest, Maro does indeed know where the Sanctuary is and sends the player to it. Don't know if Astrid knew that or not, but Maro likely knew.

"You're the Listener? Ok, I'll buy it!"

Maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems really out of character for someone as paranoid as Astrid to just accept that this newcomer who she knows hardly anything about is suddenly hearing the Night Mother's voice. What would be more likely, that after years and years of silence, the Night Mother would finally decide to speak to someone, or that a random newbie would lie about it in the hopes of getting special attention?
- At first, she actually is skeptical about that. She's not sure whether the voices the Dragonborn claims to hear are from the Night Mother or not, but she would like to see where it goes. Since the Night Mother is actually providing contracts, the way she's supposed to (specifically with Amaund Motierre), it quickly becomes apparent that the Dragonborn couldn't have gotten that information otherwise. Cicero in particular was convinced because the Night Mother gave a sort of code phrase to relay to him, but as for Astrid, she doesn't seem to really care whether the Night Mother's voice was real. Her authority was being challenged, that was that.

Gaius Maro's Patrol

In the Dark Brotherhood quest line, you're tasked with killing Gaius Maro, a high-ranking member of the Emperor's personal bodyguard, as he makes his rounds inspecting the security of all of Skyrim's holds in preparation for the Emperor's visit. All of Skyrim's holds. Including the ones that are in open rebellion against the Empire. Including Windhelm, the capitol of the rebellion. Including The Palace of Kings, the headquarters of the rebellion. He walks right in, in full Imperial regalia. To check security. For the Emperor's visit. The Emperor that they are at war with. And nobody thinks this is weird.
- It's not really that strange. Negotiations and diplomatic actions have to happen, and those can and often were carried out by kings, even in wartime. The were rules and customs to how war was fought, and if you want to negotiate in any reasonable manner you'd need to make accommodations for security for visiting dignitaries, even the ones you're at war with - especially if the visitor is a king. In that context, it's not really surprising that the Stormcloaks would allow a very small unit of Imperial officers into Windhelm to check to make sure things are safe for the Emperor should he come to negotiate. They'll be extremely unhappy to see them, but they'd be allowed into the city ahead of any negotiations to make sure that the Emperor might be safe.
- This is backed up if you're at a certain point in the Dark Brotherhood questline. If the Emperor's ship is outside of Solitude when you're getting ready to attack Solitude as the Stormcloaks, Ulfric will refuse to attack Solitude while he's there for risk of harming him, as he doesn't want to risk all-out war. This would explain why the Stormcloaks would tolerate a Penitus Oculatus agent in Skyrim inspecting the defenses and security for the Emperor's visit. Ulfric may be a rebel, but he's a king who respects his fellow rulers.
  - Throughout history, kings have done everything in their power to cast regicide as despicable, including heaping brutal Rewarded as a Traitor Deserves punishments on would-be kingslayers - even for killing hated rivals that those kings would gladly have personally slain. Ulfric justifies his own act of kingslaying by casting it as a formal challenge from a legitimate, superior claimant to the throne. He has no such respect for covert assassins. Denying another ruler his security or otherwise doing anything to encourage assassins is a threat to his own plans that could come back to bite him even if he wins.
  - That and there's a pragmatic reason: if he sabotages the security of his rival during a diplomatic/personal visit, then that's a signal to other rulers that they might also get away with skimping on the security if Ulfric ever visits them. One of the reasons why diplomatic protocol is so often observed is because if you dispense with it, your rivals and allies will do the same, and that makes your life harder.
- Memetic as it's become, there's a reason the "This is madness!" "THIS IS SPARTA!" scene is such a big deal. Killing a duly-appointed messenger on a diplomatic mission has been a war crime pretty much since humanity developed the concept of war crimes.
- Also, Stormcloaks have no reason to kill or harm the emperor. They don't want the Empire gone, just out of Skyrim. Which is the opposite they would get if the emperor was attacked.

The Civil War

Ulfric's dossier

Why can't the Dragonborn do anything useful with the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric? Like confront him with it, or make it public? If you supported him, surely you'd want him to have it, and if not, surely it would be useful in discrediting the Stormcloak rebellion (weakening the Empire is just what the Thalmor want, and all that).
- Presumably it's not firm proof. Could easily just have been faked so it is of no use to anyone because there's nothing marking it as genuine.
- Still, would have been an interesting conversation when he was confronted with it.
- The dossier doesn't really say anything to discredit him. The Thalmor have tried talking to him about... something before and then they tried to arrest him so he won't ever talk to them again. That's pretty much it. Everyone with common sense realises that the civil war continuing is in the Thalmor's favor but they think it's worth fighting anyway and it only drives both sides to try to achieve victory as soon as possible.
  - The Dossier implied that they tricked Ulfric into thinking that he was partly responsible for giving away valuable information to them, and on one occasion they tried to contact him with... less than stellar results. It's implied that Ulfric is more of a pawn than an actual agent of the Thalmor. Confronting him with the info would do little than to anger him, since the Dossier directly says they need to prolong the war for Thalmor interests, and Ulfric certainly wants the war to end. There would have been little plotline difference, since Windhelm guards and Ulfric himself doesn't exactly welcome Thalmor with open arms to begin with.
- Remember that the term 'asset' doesn't mean 'ally' when it comes to intelligence work. Ulfric started an uprising in Skyrim which they viewed as advantageous. But one must take the dossier in its entirety, and that document clearly and unambiguously states that victory by Ulfric Stormcloak in the civil war is to be avoided. That neatly blows away any theory that siding with Ulfric somehow helps the Dominion; it clearly does not.
  - Even if upon learning of the Thalmor's manipulation, Tullius sympathizes with Ulfric and Ulfric ends his rebellion, Tullius would likely still execute Ulfric either to give the civil war some meaning and closure or to prevent him from starting war with the Thalmor, which would likely end the peace between the Dominion and the Empire.

Ulfric and the Thu'um

Where did Ulfric learn the Thu'um?
- At one point Ulfric says that he studied with the Greybeards before the great war.
- Arngeir will also tell you this if you talk to him about it.

Ulfric and the Thalmor

Is Ulfric seriously secretly aligned with the Thalmor?
- Frig no. If you're referring to the dossier, they were specifically saying that they were manipulating him into starting the Civil War to waste the resources of Skyrim and the Empire during the struggle. They also point out either side winning would be bad for them, and if that's the case Ulfric would not be trying to actually win. The fact that the Thalmor are driven out of Stormcloak territory and Ulfric tells Elenwen to shut up to her face and call her "that Thalmor bitch" should make it clear that he hates them. What made you think otherwise, if you don't mind me asking?
- It's more ambiguous than that. He indisputably worked with them in the past, and the Thalmor (according to the dosser) still consider him to be an asset, but an unreliable and potentially uncooperative one. In other words, he is aligned with them to the extent that he believes it will advance his own agenda (Nord independence, and his own personal desire to rule — which of these you feel is more important to him is, again, a matter of interpretation.) They're definitely not on the same side, and ultimately want opposing things, but their goals do align to a certain point. His public hostility to them may or may not be feigned (depending on how cynical you believe he is), but regardless it is necessary for anyone who wants to unite Skyrim under his control to at least feign offense at the Thalmor, given Thalmor unpopularity there. His backstory does make clear that he doesn't actually care about the core issue of Talos-worship and the White-Gold Concordat — he only started to talk it up after events in the Reach (and, possibly, his Thalmor handlers explicitly telling him that the White-Gold Concordat was intended to divide Skyrim from the rest of the empire) made him realize it was a good way to unite Skyrim under his control. From the Thalmor perspective, basically, he's like a tinpot dictator they're backing as part of an ongoing cold war with the Empire; and nothing in the game particularly contradicts this interpretation.
  - If by "worked with them in the past" you mean "broke under torture", then yeah, sure.
  - I'm sorry, but where is it "made clear" in his backstory that he doesn't care about Talos? I've played through the Stormcloak questline several times now, and I see no indication that Ulfric is nothing if not sincere about his beliefs, what given his tendency to rant emotionally to his obedient second-in-command about how much he loves his people. The bloody Markarth Uprising doesn't mean anything - it's merely the first time he popped up on the Empire's wretched radar. He was most likely talking about Talos long before then. Hell, the town priest of Windhelm specifically mentions his piety when presented an off-hand question about the general religiosity of Windhelm's populace, so what the hell are you on about?
- A bigger question is why haven't the Imperials publicized the fact that Ulfric was, at one point, a Thalmor agent? The dosser is indisputable evidence of that, and even if people would dismiss it the Imperials lose nothing by making the accusation. One possibility is that they don't want to offend the Thalmor while they have the civil war as a distraction, but it's odd that the game never remotely addresses it — you would expect to be able to at least run it past them if on the Imperial side, or to ask Ulfric about it if on the Stormcloak side.
  - Unfortunately, the dossier actually isn't "indisputable" evidence of that; the pro-Imperial Jarls are going to believe it, and the pro-Stormcloak Jarls are going to go "That's an Imperial forgery!", and there's no way to prove it either way to a skeptic because its not like forensic handwriting analysis exists in Skyrim. So it actually will be disputed, to hell and back.
  - Aside from people choosing to believe in it or not, it really isn't "indisputable evidence" of Ulfric being a Thalmor agent, as it does not say that to begin with, asset does not mean ally in spy lingo. All it actually says is that Ulfric was manipulated into starting the civil war and that the Thalmor want the war to continue.

Why does the Legion assume you're a Stormcloak?

So... why did those Imperial Legionnaires assume the PC was a Stormcloak? He was hobbling across the border alone, unarmed, barefoot and in clothes that were fashioned from potato sacks. The actual Stormcloaks are always armed and always wearing easily recognizable Stormcloak armor. The PC had neither weapons nor anything that even remotely resembles the Stormcloak tunics. How do the Legionaries fail to see that indiscriminately killing innocent people in cold blood is only giving others a huge incentive to join the rebels? And why would anyone who is not a Nord be with the Stormcloacks anyway?! Especially an Imperial, High Elf, Dark Elf, Orc, Argonian or Khajiit - anyone of those races being involved with the Stormcloak, uhhh that just wouldn't happen. The rebels want all of them dead. If they so badly wanted Ulfric dead ASAP, why did they not kill him first? Why put the random unknown hobo ahead of the most important and potentially dangerous prisoner present? (since he can very skillfully use the Thu'um, the fact that he's gagged doesn't mean they are completely safe..) That doesn't make sense either.
- As my answer to this Headscratcher is rather long, I've divided it into three paragraphs:
  - The actual circumstances surrounding your capture are deliberately vague, but it is reasonable to assume your capture was a matter of military pragmatism. In the heat of battle, a soldier must treat everyone but his own fellows as a threat or a potential threat, else he stands to get himself or his friends killed. Restraining you was a means of eliminating you as a threat—and the fact that you're still alive shows that that the soldiers weren't necessarily out to spill blood if they could help it. After the ambush is over, the Legionnaires, not recognizing you as one of their own, naturally assume you're one of the rebels they've been sent to capture. It's only later, once you arrive at Helgen, that it becomes clear that you're "not on the list."
  - After that point, all blame rests solely on the shoulders of that one Imperial captain, who clearly exhibits some Blood Knight tendencies. As for her reasons for ordering your death, there are a number of possibilities. It could be simple racism, especially in the case of High Elves, Orcs, and beast races. It could be she wants to eliminate any unfriendly witnesses: she doesn't know your political leanings, and could rightly assume that you will spread word of the Empire executing prisoners of war without proper trial. Or, she might assume that you're a dangerous agent of some unseen force—possibly the Thalmor—in which case she would want you eliminated quickly to prevent you from passing on intel.
  - And finally, for why the captain orders you to the chopping block before Ulfric. In terms of game design, it's so you can get a good, scripted look at Alduin descending from the clouds and ruining Helgen's day. In terms of in-universe logic, she really has no reason to rush things along. No one had any reason whatsoever to assume a dragon, or anything else for that matter, was going to prevent them from executing every one of the prisoners in due time. Ulfric is obviously restrained quite handily, both body and voice, else he most likely would've killed his rival, General Tullius, when the man was standing right in front of him. The captain could be ordering you up first due to any of the reasons noted in the previous paragraph (racism, suspicion, etc.). Regardless, she was probably planning on saving Ulfric for last, just for the sake of theatrics—it'd have much more gravity to execute the traitor king after all of his followers have fallen, after all.
- Welll IMHO it's more likely, given that the PC was dressed in rags, that they suffered some other misfortune, maybe got robbed and left for dead, and were picked up with the rest of the trash by the Imperial guards doing a sweep of the towns. Wasn't the guy who panicked and ran off only to get shot down by the archers only a thief and not a Stormcloak as well? Ending up on death row in the intro was largely down the Imperial officer of the day having a bad case of PMS. I don't think they could have honestly believed the PC was a Stormcloak, especially if they're an Imperial, and elf or a beast race; the Stormcloacks hate all of those races and would absolutely never accept them into their own ranks (the fact that they accept the player character regardless of race later on is simply gameplay and story segregation; I'm pretty sure there aren't any non-Nord Stormcloack NPCs in the game. Plus it's unlikely players who are not playing as a Nord would want to join the rebels anyway..)
  - No. The fact that they're willing to accept a non-Nord PC as a Stormcloak indicates that at the least they're willing to use non-Nord mercenaries. The Empire most likely assumes that you're a mercenary. Not wearing a Stormcloak uniform or gear could be explained by them as you ditching your gear to seem like you're not associated with them. This is an extremely common tactic. If anything, the Imperials arresting everyone in the area of the ambush makes sense, because that's what every competent military and police force in the world does when detaining suspects or HVI targets inside a specific area, specifically because the bad guys like to ditch their gear if they think it will help them escape. They sort things out after the situation has been put under control. Of course, the Imperials didn't do that second part, but Hadvar was notably protesting what was happening.
- As for why they didn't kill Ulfric first, the biggest reason was probably to exploit the drama of the situation (killing the army in front of him while he's bound and gagged certainly rubs it in his face and makes a better story). But there's also practical reasons- if something were to happen and the prisoners were to escape after the executions started, any that weren't scared into submission would be incredibly pissed off and would have Ulfric's execution without a trial as new motivation and a recruiting tool ("This is how the Empire treats us. Is that what you want?"), plus Galmar Stone-Fist is still alive back in Windhelm and able to take the reins of the rebellion. If Ulfric were to survive, the movement wouldn't have his trial-less execution as motivation, plus he'd now have to contend with a reputation for having led his men into an ambush and to their deaths, which would not make recruiting new followers any easier.
  - But why drag the PC up to the block first when it's pretty clear they're not a Stormcloak and the others have no clue who they are?
  - It's pretty clear they're not a Stormcloak? Based on what information? That you're not wearing a Stormcloak uniform? You could've taken it off at some point to try and escape (as the troper above stated). The Stormcloaks are shown to be willing to hire non-Nords as shown by the fact that non-Nord players can join the Rebellion, and the Stormcloaks not knowing who you are could simply be chalked up to them feigning ignorance. You not being on their lists could simply be chalked up to them being slightly off-count with their numbers. When the Imperials caught you with the Stormcloaks, they made the rather astounding logical leap that, maybe, you were a Stormcloak as well, and apprehended you accordingly.
  - Most likely they were planning on executing you and the horse thief first. If you weren't a Stormcloak (which you weren't but they don't have a way of knowing that) and they let you live, you'd be more likely to join the Stormcloaks since they were the side that didn't arrest you without a chance to explain yourself, and even if you didn't take sides you were still a witness to the Empire performing a mass execution of enemy combatants without a trial. Either way, you'd be more likely to cause them trouble in the future than not. Plus, if they started with the two non-Stormcloaks, the deaths of two people unrelated to the conflict would be on Ulfric's hands, further rubbing the situation in his face and upping the drama. The only reason why they started with that random Stormcloak soldier instead of you was because he knelt down in front of the chopping block and yelled "get on with it!" in the middle of the last rites.
  - It's pretty clear they're not a Stormcloak it's utterly absurd to think a non-Nord would be a Stormcloak, especially an Elf which these guys clearly only want to exterminate, and the fact that the player had no Stormcloak armor and was sitting around mostly naked, and the fact that it's obvious none of the actual Stormcloaks has a slightest clue who the hell the player is. Why execute the goddamn player first, again, because if they're trying to be idiots and not just get killing Ulfric over with and want to make it as traumatic as possible, why drag the unknown sucker that nobody else knows instead of lopping the heads off all his top lieutenants first in front of him? It still doesn't make any sense. The player's just an out of place piece of crap loser who very clearly is out of place.
  - especially an Elf which these guys clearly only want to exterminate Incorrect. Only the most extreme of the Nords actually want to exterminate the Elves as a whole. Most others (Ulfric included) simply want the Thalmor and the refugees from Morrowind out of Skyrim, and even if they were trying to exterminate them it isn't absurd to imagine Elves fighting for the Stormcloaks. There are plenty of instances of Slavs and Jews aiding the Nazis in World War II even though Nazi ideology declared them to be inferior. and the fact that the player had no Stromcork armor and was sitting around mostly naked As stated twice before, Soldiers taking off their uniforms to avoid detection is a common tactic in war. What's the first thing that you'd want to ditch in order to not get caught by enemy soldiers? and the fact that it's obvious none of the actual Stromclocks has a slightest clue who the hell the player is. Please point me to the part in the execution scene where one of the Stormcloaks jumps up and says "WAIT, WE DON'T KNOW WHO HE IS!", because I've watched it and I seem to be missing that part. They acknowledge that they don't know him on the ride there, but the only Imperial who could've heard that was the lowly Legionnaire driving their cart, and he probably didn't care an awful lot. why drag the unknown sucker that nobody else knows instead of lopping the heads off all his top lieutenants first in front of him?. Because all his top lieutenants are in Windhelm, all of Ulfric's party at the time was made of low-ranked soldiers. He wasn't exactly expecting to get captured, you know.
  - It's possible to be anti-Stormcloak without being pro-Legion (or anti-Legion without being pro-Stormcloak) - think Balgruuf before you force him to pick a side in the civil war quest. Even if the PC is of a race the Stormcloaks explicitly discriminate against, that doesn't necessarily mean the PC is pro-Empire - consider the Forsworn of the Reach, who have motivation to dislike both factions (not to mention will attack the player even if they're a neutral Breton). Also, it's questionable as to whether the Imperial who orders your execution would know or care about the Stormcloaks' racism, and it's entirely possible she's racist herself.
  - Actually yes, those were his top lieutenants that got caught with him, Hadvar says so if you escape Helgen with him and speak to him about it later. But still, if they want to lop the heads off everyone else first just to make Ulfy suffer, why not kill the people they know to be his favourite pets first? Then he would certainly die with a lot of psychological pain. Why the random oddball weirdo? And if ditching the uniform is a popular tactic in the TES world, not a single other person appeared to think of it... (and about the Elves thing, it seems more than a few Nords are pretty extreme, given how town guards in pretty much every city will address and elven PC.)
  - I'll admit to being incorrect about the Lieutenants. Perhaps they simply didn't think too far ahead on the matter and refused to get any more elaborate than 'kill his whole party in front of him'? For all we know the entire thing was just thought up on the go by Tullius. I did not say it was a 'popular' tactic in TES, I said it was a common tactic in war when you wanted to evade an enemy, just because nobody else in Ulfric's party did it doesn't mean you weren't capable of it. And Nords harassing elves in the cities =/= Actively wanting to exterminate their population in Skyrim. Saying mean things to you is a lot different to, say, organizing lynch mobs to get you and trashing your house every time you're gone.
  - Note also that in the Stormcloak questline, at one point you have to impersonate an Empire courier and if you wear anything other than the Imperial ensemble, you are questioned for being "out of uniform" and have the option of explaining that you "ditched it for this - easier to sneak past the enemy this way." So it's clearly possible; it's just that the "victory or Sovngarde" mentality may mean it doesn't happen very often except possibly in covert operations.
  - Well still, the likelihood of anyone who isn't a Nord being interested or in any way involved in the Stormcloacks intrigues is close to zero, elves and beasts especially since they do clearly dislike them a lot, given how the dark elves in Windhelm are treated, and the Argonians, who aren't even allowed in the city (stuff like that doesn't give a person any motivation to join them). They're only fighting for Skyrim, so anyone who is not from there, would not likely care about the war at all, they'd have no motive. But I still don't believe they actually thought the PC was with them. I think they thought, "Well, this person's here, we don't know who they are but if they're here they must be a bandit or an outlaw of some kind, might as well just kill them anyway." When you talk to Balgruuf or Ulfric about it, they seem to believe that this was the case, like it was with Lokir (Ulfric specifically orders you to keep your "criminal past" in the past).
  - That's also a perfectly fair assumption. After all, the only other guy who was caught in rags was a self-admitted horse thief. At the very least they could have just assumed that you were in cahoots with him or something.
  - There's nothing to state that a non-Nord would be unwilling to work for the Stormcloaks. What if you were a believer in Talos and sympathetic to the Stormcloak cause? The Stormcloaks are perfectly willing to let non-Nords join them, so long as said non-Nord is willing to prove their loyalty to the cause. In fact, if you're not a Nord and working with the Stormcloaks, then that would actually say a lot about your loyalty to them and, by association, your guilt.
- The PC is entirely innocent, just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and Hadvar says as such. It's just some Ax-Crazy commander who wants to kill you for going on a walk. Her soldiers clearly don't like it, but there's nothing they can do.
- Note that the Empire Captain, while a Blood Knight, does have a point. Either you are a Stormcloak or sympathizer who happened to ditch his armor so he can lie his way out of the execution, a local bandit who probably killed people before and can't be counted upon to hold his word, a hired Mercenary that evidently wasn't on your side but somehow was in the combat area (and hence, must have had some motives to be in an active warzone) or a random merchant at the wrong place at the wrong time. Note that all of this is possible from the Captain's point of view, since you could be lying 4 times out of 5, especially since your life is on the line. For her choice, worst case scenario, Skyrim looses a random merchant, best case scenario she kills one of Ulfric's Lieutenants. Given that Merchants die left and right in Skyrim anyhow, she can afford to make one little mistake to make sure no Stormcloak escapes and makes a Martyr of Ulfric.
  - Also this whole headscratcher seems to start with the assumption that there needs to be a reason. First of all, we're in a medieval like society, law and justice was quite different then, while certainly not nonexistent you could be punished at a whim already by law. Secondly, we are in a civil war situation, where usage of law and general rights tends to diminish even today (not giving too many examples - rule of cautious editing - but let's just say that lawgivers tend to be more leaning towards the practical solution instead of having a headache about standard procedures and letting potential troublemakers go scot free), even in more enlightened societies. More, this can trickle down with rank and file soldiers or officers, who are under severe stress, going berserk some way or the others. While it may not be logically justified to assume the PC as a Stormcloak, I can easily see it happen, even today, even from a democratic army.
Everyone assumes that the player was already in rags and/or a prisoner when he was captured. The rags you and the horse thief are wearing are standard for prisoners. The Stormcloaks weren't put in rags because Tullius wanted to make an example of them, which works better when the bodies are dressed as Stormcloaks, especially Ulfric and his lieutenants. Also, keep in mind that Tullius originally planned to execute them in the Imperial City, but turned around and decided to do it in Helgen. Later, in the Cidhna Mine quest, you have the option of discussing your past, and you can say thaht the first time you were put in shackles was at Helgen, meaning that, no, you didn't travel through Pale Pass as an escaped prisoner wearing potato sacks for clothes and straw for shoes. It was just a case of incompetent and corrupt soldiers.
Another possibility is that you DID technically commit a capital offense. You tried to sneak across a provincial border during a civil war. Depending on Imperial law, that may be a reason for the death penalty.

What shout did Ulfric use to kill the High King?

Unrelenting Force?
- He's got Unrelenting Force and the Disarm shout. Elisif, and everyone else in her court aside from Falk, screech endlessly on how Ulfric 'blasted him apart with the Thu'um', but as we all know Disarm is Exactly What It Says on the Tin and Unrelenting is Wreaking Havoc, neither of them can blast a man apart. Even so, it's clear he did at least use a Thu'um, so it was likely Unrelenting. Mostly because Ulfric says he knocked Torygg down and then stabbed him.
- Also, Unrelenting Force sends people flying and is obviously kinetic in nature, so, judging by the effect, this Shout is a rough equivalent of hitting the target with battering ram or a speeding car. It maybe does not "rip people apart" but is definitely capable of breaking bones and rupturing organs.
- If you ask Ulfric about it, he'll explain that he used Unrelenting Force to knock the High King down and then stabbed him in the chest. (Which is how most players use it, too.) The tale grew in the telling.

Did Hadvar get promoted for no reason?

The first time you see him he wears regular armor, the next time you see him he's wearing Officer's armor. What did he do to get promoted? Escape Helgen and hide out in his uncle's house?
- IIRC, he didn't change armor. And usually by the time the Dragonborn meets him again in the Legion questline, enough time has passed for him to logically be promoted.
- Most likely, the reason Hadvar and Ralof get promoted following Helgen is that they managed to get out at all. It's also vaguely implied that they would have been up for promotion sooner or later, anyway.
- The Imperial Officer's Helmet has a crest on top, the standard Imperial heavy armor helmet doesn't, and Hadvar's helmet doesn't have a crest. He didn't get promoted, he just switched his light armor out for heavy armor.
  - Hadvar outright SAYS he was promoted when you meet him in a mission after the battle for Whiterun, and he's now in a command position for the first time. Hadvar still wears the studded leather armor during "The Jagged Crown". So most likely he was promoted after completing this.
- Tullius knows Hadvar by name in the intro, and surviving Helgen is considered impressive by both sides of the civil war. Presumably some Legion officer bit it in Helgen (like that captain) and Hadvar got their job.

Talos shrines in Imperial cities

Why are the shrines of Talos still intact if the Imperials take over a city? Wouldn't they be torn down or replaced with a shrine for another divine?
- Only if the Thalmor get around to doing it. There are many hints that the Imperials despise the outlawing of Talos worship just as much as the Stormcloaks.^note They just have no choice in the matter, as going against the White-Gold Concordat would mean resuming hostilities with the Aldermi Dominion, which would be suicide both politically and militarily for everyone in Cyrodiil. There's also the matter of the really really loud and annoying Talos preacher in Whiterun who seems to be beneath the notice of the Empire aligned authorities.
- One other important thing to remember is that while Talos isn't allowed to be revered as a god, he is allowed to be remembered as a great war hero and emperor. So a statue of Talos can legally remain, under the excuse that it's simply a statue of Tiber Septim, and as long as you're not blatantly worshipping the entity represented by it as a Divine, then it's okay.
- Also, even if you're following the White-Gold Concordat to the letter, it's a bad idea to pull down the statues to Talos in the province where he is most beloved and respected, as that would likely spark rebellion and help fuel the already-existing rebellion. The people of a hold might follow the Jarl's loyalties to the Empire, but pulling down Talos statues will likely push many over the edge who wouldn't otherwise have thrown in with the Stormcloaks, resulting in not only the Stormcloaks gaining more manpower but the hold suffering economically as part of the population leaves.

Markarth's value in negotiations

During the negotiations between the Stormcloaks and the Imperials in the main quest, Ulfric demands the city of Markarth. First of all, its rather silly that he thought he'd get an entire hold just for a temporary cease-fire. Second, why Markarth? If no quests in the war storyline have been completed, it's surrounded on all sides by Imperial territory, with Solitude to the north, Whiterun to the northeast, Falkreath to the east, Cyrodiil to the south, and High Rock to the west. So that means he has no way to resupply the city or get the silver from the city to him. And for Markarth, sending extra supplies is absolutely necessary, as it is under constant threat of the forsworn. Wouldn't asking for Falkreath make a lot more sense?
- Falkreath Hold isn't very strategically important. It's pretty much just a huge tract of alpine forest. That means it'd be difficult to defend, and the holder would gain little war materiel in doing so. By taking Markarth out of Imperial hands, Ulfric is denying them a key resource—the silver mines—and is putting pressure on their right flank. It matters little that Ulfric can't really make use of the silver; as long as he puts troops in and around Markarth, the Imperials have to respond by diverting forces to address him. That inevitably means gaps will open in their lines elsewhere, and that's what Ulfric really wants—to weaken Imperial forces overall so that he can begin his offensive campaign. General Tullius, of course, realizes this and attempts to balance the scales by demanding Riften; by basically pulling the same ploy.
- Except he has no way to send troops there to put pressure on the imperials. Any re-enforcements he would send would need to pass through imperial territory. So first of all, he couldn't send any troops at all during the temporary truce. And after that has ended he can't enforce for the same reason he couldn't take Markarth earlier: Whiterun and Falkreath are in the way.
- And yet, Stormcloak troops get into the Hold somehow—you can see as much after the truce is made. That's the other thing: the two sides did agree to a cessation of hostilities for a short time. It's entirely possible that Ulfric sent a train of soldiers and supplies to the city during that period. In fact, that was likely one of the provisions the two sides hashed out—agree to let each other occupy their new territory without harassment. Regardless, both Ulfric and Tullius are gambling on their gains in the short term; each simply wants to keep the pressure on the other, not use their new Holds for any real economic advantage.
- I assumed those soldiers were from the Reach Stormcloak camp.
- What I don't understand is why both sides demand new territory at all? We're there to get both sides to agree to a ceasefire because the flippin' world is about to end. The even weirder thing is that both sides will still agree to trade territories even if the trade you suggest is massively unfair to one side. Why doesn't the faction getting cheated just say "the deal's off, let's just stop fighting for a bit without trading territory?"
- You have to remember that these are sworn enemies. Both Ulfric and Tullius are bringing the war into the peace conference, as it were. The territory demands are essentially military skirmishes, except in diplomatic form: by prodding each other in this manner, they learn just how far the other is willing to bend while still in pursuit of their own gains. Said gains are also the motivation behind the demands even when faced with apocalypse.^note It's also an exchange of mutual trust. By allowing the other side to occupy new territory unmolested, it shows each is willing to respect the terms of the agreement and to exercise the necessary discipline over their troops to ensure that the ceasefire is upheld.
- Well, in our world people have never been good at dealing with threats unless it's right on top of them. If the ES world is anything similar they'd probably agree to cease hostilities only when Alduin is outside the window breathing fire.
- For what it's worth, Whiterun/Balgruuf isn't technically Imperial-aligned if you haven't done any of the civil war quests - it's listed as "Imperial" on the battle map because that's the side it would take, but it's technically neutral until Ulfric forces his hand.
- It's Personal. The Markarth Incident, which Ulfric spearheaded, was the first major event that led to the Stormcloak Rebellion.

How are the Stormcloaks a threat?

So how are the Stormcloaks a threat? Their rebellion seems to made up of a bunch of farmers with pretty low quality equipment and the Imperials are veterans. What do the Stormcloaks have? The fact that they're Nords?
- They have you.
- They also have half of Skyrim and a lot of defected Legionnaires. They can't really take on the Legion's forces head on, but there are other tactics they can use.
- Their equipment is of comparable quality to the Legion's, and these are Nords. Nord troops have been a major part of the Legion's armies throughout the Empire's history (it was Nord-composed Legions that arrived to drive the Almerri from Cyrodiil in the Great war) and Skyrim is one of the nastiest and most dangerous parts of Tamriel. Nords by nature have to be tough and competent warriors, and they have a strong martial tradition. And they were kicking the Legion's ass until Tullis arrived and turned things around.
- The Stormcloak troops are veterans too. Many of them fought in the Great War, and a number fought at Markarth. Even the ones that didn't have been guarding holds, which means patrolling roads populated by bandits and other sundry dangers, and periodically taking the fight to whatever threatens the hold. Plus, the average farmer in Skyrim frequently has to deal with trolls, bears, bandits, and other sundry dangers. Remember, this is the land where the average response to a dragon descending on your city is grab whatever weapon you're carrying and go after that scaly bastard.
- The Stormcloaks are really analogous to the Germanic and Celtic tribes that the historical Roman Empire fought a lot. One of the defining elements of those Gauls and Picts was their aggression and the ferocity of their attacks; a common, paraphrased saying among the Romans was that the Gauls would break within five minutes of fighting against a disciplined Roman shield line - but the Roman shield line had to survive five minutes of fighting a Gaul horde. The Stormcloaks wield light armor and assault with heavy two-handed weapons and can, very quickly, kill Legionaries, but if the Legionaries survive the first few swings they can usually kill the lighter-armored and shieldless Stormcloaks. The Gauls were also deadly ambushers and many Roman Legions were destroyed by Gaul armies due to surprise attacks or being outnumbered and flanked. The Stormcloaks fight in a similar fashion, using terrain and surprise attacks to defeat better-equipped Imperial Legionaries. There's also the added point that the Romans were so successful because they were able to mass-produce professional armies with standardized gear, so they could easily replace expended Legions, which is something the Empire of Tamriel can't do so readily. Therefore, the Empire has to be more cautious and conservative, which gives the Stormcloaks an edge.
- Also, if you ask him how the war is going, General Tullius will complain that he's not getting the reinforcements he's requested and how he's having to try to fight the war with "a bare handful of legions". Keep in mind, the Empire knows that the Thalmor will break the "peace" that exists the moment they see an opening, so the Emperor likely isn't willing to pull too many troops off the border. If the Empire didn't have to worry about the Thalmor and were free to bring all of their power to bear on the Stormcloaks, the forces of all of Cyrodiil plus half of Skyrim would likely be more than sufficient to overwhelm the other half of Skyrim.
  - Farmers with impromptu weaponry rising up to fight off a larger and better equipped force of professional soldiers almost always results in the farmers getting a terminal case of sword, historically. Successful rebellions like that were extremely rare in real life. The Stormcloaks are professional ex-soldiers who are well-equipped and well-led, and it shows.

Balgruuf not siding with the Stormcloaks

When presenting Balgruuf with Ulfric's axe, why isn't there an option to try and convince Balgruuf to side with Ulfric? I'm not saying that it should work, wouldn't it make sense for a thane of Whiterun who's also a Stormcloak to try and convince his Jarl to join (what he believes to be) the right side?
- Balgruuf's opinion of Ulfric and his motives seem very low if you talk to him as he gives you his axe. He makes it pretty damn clear he doesn't buy Ulfric's more noble motive and shows little more than disdain for the man. Presumably even someone as schizophrenic as the Dovahkiin can realize the odds of Balgruuf doing a 180 on that are nearly non-existent.

Hadvar and Ralof taking their time

Why is it that no matter how long you take to get around to joining either the imperials or the stormcloaks, neither Hadvar or Ralof ever manage to get to Solitude or Windhelm before you?
- Take Your Time. For an in-story answer, the dragon invasion has left the war at a complete stalemate.

Long-Term survival for Stormcloak Skyrim

Long-term survival for a successfully seceded, Stormcloak Skyrim. How does that even work? First, succession. Allowing that Ulfric is a competent, effective leader of an entire province and will live out his natural span (by which I mean no untimely assassinations, illnesses, or injury etc.)—he's got to be at least in his 50s and has no apparent heir. Military power and charisma is how he would become ruler of Skyrim, and those administrations in the real world built on that tend not to be lasting regimes even when there's some idea of how succession will work out. Second, infrastructure. Ralof refers to "Imperial walls", and IIRC the roads at the least are built and maintained by the Empire, possibly also other infrastructure elements we don't see much of in the game but probably would still exist, like water management. It seems to me that an autonomous Skyrim would not have the resources, money, or civil administrative structuring in place to effectively maintain the infrastructure and subsequently the lifestyle built during their time under imperial rule. Third, the Dominion. Ulfric expects to successfully resist a power that forced the entire empire to do as it wished, and do it on his own? *How*? And he *would* be alone, Skyrim's prospects for outside alliances are not exceptionally fruitful: In-game dialogue establishes that High Rock wants little to do with Stormcloak Skyrim. Cyrodiil is obviously not an option. While Valenwood and Elsweyr share Skyrim's hatred of the Thalmor and desire to hurt them, their ability to provide meaningful aid is unimpressive because one, neither of them are resource-rich or centralized/urbanized enough to effectively and efficiently direct the resources they do have to Skyrim, two, they're severely handicapped getting aid *to* Skyrim—their choices are marching overland through a Cyrodiil that is at peace (technically) with the Dominion and at loggerheads with Skyrim, or attempting to sail through Thalmor-controlled waters and past Thalmor-controlled ports—and three, once they *got* there I can't imagine that "we hate elves"/"khajiit are not allowed inside our cities" would endear them to these allies. And Black Marsh and Morrowind might be willing to ally with an independent Skyrim, but not a Stormcloak Skyrim, headed by a man who has Dunmer live in ghettoes and Argonians live on the docks. Hammerfell would be the best bet for an ally, and even then they have very different views on Talos and are already at war with the Dominion—who knows how much help they can spare. In essence while I can see the moral and ideological reasons for an autonomous Skyrim to exist, I just don't understand how it could be a stable entity.
- a) Ulfric is not so old as to not be a father, and even if he doesn't the position High King isn't strictly hereditary: the King is selected from the current Jarls, almost all of whom would favour an independent Skyrim by that point. b) What precisely makes you think Skyrim doesn't have the resources to manage itself? Or that the Empire does? Those roads, those cities and villages, existed long before the Empire and will likely exist long after, it's not beyond the Jarl's abilities to maintain them - they aren't exactly Roman highways. As for the "Imperial walls", given the state we find most forts, even the occupied ones, I doubt the empire put much effort into maintaining them. c) Ulfric does not count on friendship to get allies. Everybody hates Alinor right now, and the enemy of my enemy is a potential ally (and not much more).
- Succession: Succession in Skyrim is dependent on who the Jarls elect as High King during the Moot, not hereditary. Jarl positions are traditionally hereditary, though as we see in-game, they can easily be forced by whoever has military supremacy. Since every Jarl at that point backs Ulfric, they'll elect a successor who will likely share his views. Probably a Silver-Blood.
- Infrastructure: All infrastructure we see in Skyrim is supplied and maintained by the Jarls of each Hold. Very little of it is Imperial; in fact, Imperial control is relatively hands off in most of its provinces as a whole. The Empire mostly provides military might and a central governing body that keeps the provinces unified. The fortresses are referred to as "Imperial" because they're manned by Imperial troops.
- The Dominion is a mutual enemy of every single nation on Tamriel (save Valenwood and Elsweyr, which are actually part of the Dominion). They can't move into Skyrim overland because every overland approach is occupied by either Imperial or hostile independent forces like Hammerfell or Black Marsh. They won't have an easy time approaching by sea because the Empire will still have naval forces operating around the western, eastern, and southern seas thanks to High Rock and Morrowind. Attempting any hostile action against Skyrim will result in passing through hostile Imperial land or sea holdings. Just because the Empire is technically at peace with the Dominion doesn't mean they're going to allow military access; they're chafing enough as it is with mere justiciar presence. And note that while the Empire did sign a peace treaty with the Dominion, this was only after the Dominion's armies were annihilated at the Battle of the Red Ring and driven from the Empire.
- Allies: The Dominion is hostile to everyone on Tamriel save their client states. If the Dominion attacks Skyrim, they'll have to pass through hostile territory to reach it, which will result in a second Great War, which would likely result in an alliance of necessity between the various nations against Dominion aggression.
- Finally, there is one single, massive advantage that a Stormcloak-controlled Skyrim will have: the Dragonborn whose actions led to Ulfric taking command of it. Not to mention that said Dragonborn will have also journeyed to Solstheim and established relations with House Redoran, potentially reviving a second-era alliance between Nord and Dark Elf. That alliance would come just in time to enfranchise the large Dark Elf population that moved to Skyrim after the Red Year, bolstering their ranks even further. If Ulfric isn't as racist as his city seems to be, anyway...
  - High Rock is ambivalent towards anything to do with Cyrodiil if they're willing entertain emissaries of a rebellion. After the Stormcloaks win the war, there's no reason to assume they wouldn't throw their lot in with what would be essentially the most powerful human kingdom on the face of the earth. Hammerfell may have religious differences with Skyrim, but that doesn't mean there can't be an alliance. If anything, the similarities they have in political views will be enough to make one. Hell, you can find a book in game written by a Redguard diplomat visiting Skyrim and his opinion of the Nords is very positive. Never mind the multitudes of Redguard throughout Skyrim who have integrated themselves into Nordic society. As for infrastructure? Very little of Skyrim's infrastructure is maintained by the Empire. The majority of it is overseen by the Jarls and Thanes and freefolk of the holds. Skyrim is not a feudal society - chieftains derive power from their people, like the medieval Norse the Nords are inspired by, and each hold pretty much looks to itself to get by.
  - High Rock may not be ambivalent towards Cyrodiil, so much as playing it safe by allowing emissaries. They're making sure that whichever side wins, they've got a foot in the camp door. If the Empire wins, then they've never severed ties, so can argue that they were simply following diplomatic procedure (much like Skyrim allows a Thalmor embassy). If the Stormcloaks win, they allowed the emissaries, so that's one less reason for Ulfric to see them as an enemy. Either way, they've got some leverage to protect themselves from being a target.
- Whether or not Cyrodiil is a viable option as an ally boils down to one question; how pragmatic is Titus Mede II(or his heir, should you complete the dark brotherhood questline)? Whatever resentment may exist after the rebellion, it's ultimately in the Empire's interests to support Skyrim's independence once it's won.
  - At that point, however, the Empire will have lost at least one Legion(If not more) to the Stormcloaks as well as their top military mind in Tullius, who would have been more than useful if hostilities were to resume in the near-future(which it's implied that they will when you speak with Tullius). Whether Titus is assassinated or not(which is probably a yes, considering that Bethesda generally Word Of Gods that someone, not necessarily the player character, performed a guild's questline), the Empire is going to be completely destroyed by the end of the Stormcloaks gaining Skyrim's independence. High Rock will be entirely separated from Cyrodiil without Skyrim and Morrowind, while rebuilding, is still pretty much a smoking ruin as a result of the Argonian Invasion and at the mercy of a now-volatile volcano. And that's not mentioning the fact that Cyrodiil was still recovering from the devastation of the Great War by the time of Skyrim, having had every city in the province sans Chorrol, Bruma, and Cheydinhal completely sacked by the Dominion(which also reportedly committed huge atrocities on the Cyrodiilic populace in the process) while Skyrim was relatively untouched by the carnage wrought by the Thalmor. So how is the Empire going to replace the legions they lost to the Thalmor as well as against the Stormcloaks when their only remaining provinces consist of a sparsely-populated province that's still rebuilding after being utterly destroyed and their home province which still hasn't recovered from the Great War, especially when I bet Mede was really counting on Skyrim's untouched and unscathed populace(as well as High Rock, who is now severed from the Empire as a result of Skyrim's independence) to help replenish the Legions in time for the second war.
    So what good will Cyrodiil be able to do other than offer sparse, pathetic resistance to the inevitable Dominion conquest, having lost their best commanders, a large chunk of what remained of their forces from the Great War, and their Emperor to boot? And whose to say that Cyrodiil would help even if they could, considering how much blood and treasure they'd lost to Ulfric's pettiness?
  - If its taking them 25 years to even begin to stand up on their feet after a 4 year long war where they basically sacrificed one of their constituents and have since been beggaring the remainder with high taxation, they deserve to crash and burn in my opinion. And if Tullius was their last excellent military mind, they were never going to be much help in the inevitable second act, since Tullius honestly, despite the game's saying so (and bearing in mind that a lot of in-universe information in the Elder Scrolls is subject to bias and propaganda) is really not that good of a military leader. He has arguably the strongest military force at his disposal, and yet is locked in a perpetual stalemate with a guerrilla resistance movement, splitting the entire country down the middle, perfectly. Even if he did manage to kill Ulfric, that wouldn't have taken out the Stormcloaks, because their command structure would still be intact, the Jarls, Galmar and the other named officers leading the camps. Not that capturing Ulfric was an inspired stroke of military genius anyway, as he seemed to have done everything in his power to make it easy for him, exploring the extreme south of the country leading into Cyrodiil, and all. But given what they'd have left after the Stormcloaks win —
  - Okay, one legion may be destroyed, but then not even completely, the remainder will likely pick up and go home and be absorbed into the others (the Imperials have more than ten, IIRC). There would still be at least nine legions making up the Imperial army, all under likely competent generals. Tullius even states that he's continuously petitioning for reinforcements to meet the Imperials in battle, but is denied because his bosses want as many spare men as possible guarding the borders, watching for Dominion raids. So, no, they're passable militarily. Even if they do lose their absolute best infantry with the Nordic independence.
  - Titus's death has the possibility of actually turning out to be better for the Empire than bad, as it will likely allow someone more competent to take up the position of Emperor, the person ordering the assassination says as much, and cites the example of Pelagius Septim's assassination in the Temple of the One in 3E 41, eventually leading into the ascension of Kintyra Septim, whose rule was marked with much economic prosperity. Anyway, I wouldn't bet on the Empire falling into ruin because Skyrim secedes, worse things have happened to it, and it still endures.
  - The problem is it could also go the opposite way. Titus Mede II's death could end up putting a hawkish, belligerent leader in power, and jeopardize the Empire by alienating the other provinces and throwing them into a losing battle. Or it could lead to the reign of an unstable leader (akin to Nero or Caligula in our history).
  - Titus was the guy who was able to marshal his forces for the counterattack that drove the Thalmor out of Cyrodiil prior to the signing of the White-Gold Concordat. So I'm not entirely keen on saying his assassination will only be a good thing, as the sole black mark on his record is the Concordat, which was obviously made as a stalling action so he could recover his armies in time for the inevitable resuming of hostilities. In the case of Kintyra, she'd basically been running the Empire for years prior to Pelagius' assassination, and she didn't have a fractured, hanging-on-by-a-thread Empire to deal with, either.
  - Hyperbole. 25 years is a long time for anywhere to recover from a disaster. It may be that as a result of tax revenue from Skyrim and High Rock, provinces that have remained affluent and stable, that the Empire has managed to scrounge together enough finance to restore the main components of its damaged infrastructure. Also, Cyrodiil was never 'sparsely populated', it was ever the highly developed, cosmopolitan centre of oh so great Empire. So much so that its economic model was put in place in other provinces during the Third Era. Even if you want to argue that the destruction of southerly towns in Cyrodiil means that Cyrodiil is a smoking crater, it's still been 25 years for those cities to be rebuilt and refugees to come back, a new generation to be born, and life to spring anew.
  - The Thalmor don't have the man-power to avail the power the Empire gave to them. Even Tullius admits that the Thalmor can't do much in the provinces without the tacit approval of Imperial authorities. Particularly in Skyrim. They're the only thing keeping the Thalmor in it in the first instance.
- And, even if Cyrodiil is a smoking ruin by the time of its independence, it would still ultimately be in the best interest of Cyrodiil to maintain good (or civil at least) relations with what essentially be the single most powerful human kingdom on the planet and their only connector with High Rock and what little remains of their failed Empire.
On a different note regarding Ulfric's competency as a leader of Skyrim - he is basically what all Nords would love in a king, which is to say a competent war-leader who is favoured by the gods and someone who could air out disputes between clans in an efficient way. Skyrim as a whole is... seemingly based off Scandinavian countries in the Early Middle Ages (to the extent to give it a stereotypical Viking flavour - the parts that aren't directly lifted from ancient Norse culture or Norse mythology are fairly standard medieval fantasy fair) where the ideas of what constituted a good king were battle-skill, fairness and generosity. Indeed, the very "institutions" you seem to be disparaging have only not worked out in the modern world due to being inorganically forced upon places that they were never intended for. In the mediaeval ages, particularly amongst Germanics, Might Makes Right wasn't just the norm, it was an enshrined, venerated and revered institution. Viking Age Scandinavia had dozens of kings spread out amongst the various territories that eventually became Norway, Sweden and Denmark, so decentralisation doesn't really hamper the formation of badass or effective armies. See the sons of Ragnar Lothbrokr. Even when people like Sveyn Forkbeard, Harald Fairhair or Harald Hardrada became kings of their respective countries, it was mainly through measures similar to what Ulfric does in the game. Especially in Hardrada's case, as he had no legitimate claim to Norway's throne whatsoever unlike Ulfric who has a perfectly valid claim to Torygg's throne after beating him in what was basically a holmgang. Ulfric wouldn't have to do any of the subtle economical micromanagement that we believe kings do, the other holds would basically look to their own with him just generally not caring so long as they honour their oaths to fight alongside him when they call. All Ulfric, or anyone else, would have to do as king would be a) keep the Jarls in line and make sure they don't get at their throats perpetually in feuding and b) lead the Nords to victory in battle. He would have already demonstrated his ability to do so with winning the civil war, and seeing as he has his warriors garrisoning the holds after he conquers them, I doubt he'll have any trouble with that. Even after he basically helps them rebuild their armies with Galmar as their trainer, Ulfric most likely would still have an army capable of taking on the rest of Skyrim and beating them bloody. So, he would likely have no trouble maintaining his legitimacy as king.
- The Stormcloaks' absolute refusal to entertain the Thalmor nullifies their greatest assets. It is a mistake to think of the banning of Talos as just a one-off slap in the face to the races to Men, it is in fact part of a multi-level assault on human culture to humiliate and demoralise them. Alinor could not beat the Empire even with their insane advantages the first time; their forces took a battering, the element of surprise is gone, and the elven birthrate ensures they will only replenish slower. So they have changed tack - direct military conquest didn't work, so now their game is political warfare, espionage and cultural subversion. If you can get a people to quietly (however grudgingly) accept a ban on their religion and the systemic persecution, kidnap, torture and execution of their countrymen then they will accept your rule sooner or later, and that is a greater result than winning a hundred battles one after another. It has been many years since the Great War and an entire generation of children in the Empire have grown up not recognising Talos as a god. The Thalmor have the best spy network in all Tamriel, it's not even an argument. They even host parties among the Empire's noble class, normalising themselves and blurring the line between friend and foe while learning huge amounts about the Empire's internal workings. They don't need to go to war a second time, they have nearly already won in that regard.
  - A major concern is that, if Ulfric banishes the Thalmor, then they'll go back to their forte of espionage and subterfuge. By allowing their presence, the Empire is able to keep a check on them. They are in the open, strutting about in their robes, and are a known quantity. They host parties, but most know not to trust them. If they're forced out, then they go to ground. Unseen eyes and knives, unchecked activity, etc. To quote the old adage, "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer".

Why doesn't Ulfric propose an alliance?

Okay, I know that it obviously couldn't happen for gameplay reasons, but it seems odd that Ulfric never even considers the possibility of allying with Hammerfell. So far the Redguards of Hammerfell are the only ones who have actually been able to drive back the Aldmeri Dominion. Keep in mind that this was after Titus Mede renounced them from the empire. So right now, both the Stormcloaks and the Redguards have resentment towards both the empire and the dominion, and don't seem to have any bad blood between each other. You would think that Ulfric would at least mention the idea in passing after liberating Skyrim.
- He may well have been planning to, but such an alliance would be outside instant, immediate scope. He might consider it later on but like most people in-game, the post-event dialogue just lacks that kind of nuance.
- If you listen closely to radiant dialogue, Ulfric actually is making efforts towards creating alliances with various factions.
- Hey, the game starts with Ulfric and you having been nabbed at a border crossing. Which border? Given where you are and where you end up its either Cyrodiil's or Hammerfell's. Maybe Ulfric was trying for an alliance with them, but Tullius headed him off at the pass.
- A more likely alliance would be with Morrowind. There's a significant Dunmer population in Skyrim after the Red Year, and an alliance would benefit both nations. With new information from ESO, it is learned that Skyrim and Resdayn/Morrowind previously had shared an alliance during the late Second Era against a fallen Empire held under Molag Bal's influence and an earlier incarnation of the Aldmeri Dominion. An alliance between the two states allows the Dunmer extra land to settle in and bolsters Skyrim's military presence with Dunmer soldiers.
  - A 'more likely alliance' except for the fact that Ulfric hates the Dunmer and the Dunmer hate Ulfric. If Ulfric wanted an alliance with Morrowind, you'd think the man would ease up on the Grey Quarter a bit but nope, every day is racism day in Windhelm.
  - You two know that there is no Morrowind any more, right? It was taken over by Argonians who were rightfully angry over the whole "enslavement by Dunmer and getting our heads cut off to make decorations" thing.
  - Morrowind still exists, and the Houses are still intact. House Redoran was able to drive out the Argonian invaders and retake Mournhold, though they had to move the capital to Blacklight instead because of how badly Mournhold got sacked. Their strength is scattered but there is still a Morrowind, however diminished it is.
- Hammerfell is unhappy with the Empire but they're not in a position to really do anything. An alliance with the Stormcloaks would mean war between the Empire and Hammerfell, which is not to either's benefit since their greater concern is the Thalmor. If Ulfric tried an alliance with any of the ruling powers in Hammerfell, he'd likely get a cold reception.
Something else to consider is that Ulfric is a bit touched in the head. He may be harboring some latent paranoia that Hammerfell is working with the Dominion, and, as such, be loath to try to forge an alliance when they could easily sell him out to the Thalmor.

Stormcloak initiation

As very badass as swimming out into the Sea of Ghosts, fighting Snow Bears, Ice Trolls and fending off hypothermia to reach Serpent Stone Isle is, isn't it a bit odd that the test to join the Stormcloaks is to kill an Ice Wraith when that's what all Nords in the Old Holds do to basically earn their citizenship in a Strength Equals Worthiness coming of age ritual? I mean, Ice-Wraiths are easily a mid to high-level enemy in-game and there's of course all the other stuff I've just mentioned, but it seems odd how Galmar plays it up as a big thing when Ice Wraiths are basically something he's probably killed as a kid.
- It makes more sense if you're not playing as a Nord. You need to prove yourself as being able to take part in the culture of the Nords and survive their initiation trials. Non-Nords within the Stormcloaks are likely rare and Galmar's taking care to make sure you can be a component of the culture you seem to be wanting to fight for.
- Totally makes sense for non-Nords, but I primarily meant in the case the player is a Nord. I mean, if he's a Nord, Skyrim is the player's home and birthplace right?
- Do recall that even if you're playing a Nord, you were out of Skyrim for some time and were explicitly caught crossing the border. For all they know, you were born outside of Skyrim and never knew your homeland, or became soft by living somewhere else. If you're a worthy Nord, then it's no challenge for you. if you're not, then you can become worthy by going through the rite of passage.
- If you join the Legion instead, Rikke assigns you to clear out an entire bandit-infested fort alone, because you're "more than just militia material" and she "wants to see what you're capable of". Galmar's logic is likely similar - this isn't a challenge every Stormcloak foot soldier has to do, it's a challenge he wants you to do, to see if you're serious and see if you live up to your heroic reputation.

Thalmor and Imperials in Stormcloak-controlled Skyrim

Even if you complete the Civil War in favour of the Stormcloaks, the Thalmor Embassy remains untouched. Why would Ulfric allow the Thalmor's greatest stronghold in Skyrim to remain intact, especially when it's in proximity to the capital? In addition, the Penitus Occulatus continue to operate in the region if it's Stormcloak-controlled — they even allow the Emperor to enter the harbour outside Solitude. Why would they allow him and his bodyguards that kind of autonomy?
- As I understand it, they just fought a war to free themselves from the Empire, so their resources are depleted. If they attack the Emperor or the Thalmor now, they'll be risking an all-out war against the full brunt of the Empire + the Thalmor, which is something they can't afford. Not sure why they don't wipe out the Thalmor embassy, but I can imagine they let the Emperor stay, though they gritted their teeth the whole time.
  - There's also the Doylist answer: that you can potentially complete the entire civil war quest before doing "Diplomatic Immunity", the part of the main plot that requires you to make small talk at Elenwen's party. After that, well...
- The Thalmor Embassy is still an embassy, and Stormcloak Skyrim can't quite afford to fight the Thalmor at the moment. Shutting down the Embassy would be an act of war and the Thalmor would immediately invade. They can't afford to shut it down just yet.
- Remember that war isn't exactly a binary state, especially when it comes to medieval-style warfare. Just because you're engaged in hostilities with another nation, it doesn't mean that you can't maintain an embassy or diplomatic relations. The Emperor may well have been allowed entry to the harbor near Solitude simply because Ulfric doesn't want to further escalate things. It's one thing to drive Imperial presence out of Skyrim, but another thing altogether to engage in open frontline land warfare with all of Cyrodiil, and presumably immediately after Solitude fell Ulfric started diplomatic talks with the Empire. Also, while the Penitus Oculatus are an Imperial agency, they're specifically the bodyguards of the Emperor and a security agency tracking down the Dark Brotherhood, who are a mutual enemy of both the Imperials and the Stormcloaks. Ulfric would have reason to leave them be if they're defending a foreign ruler he's in talks with and trying to eliminate a legitimate threat to his new kingdom.
- There's an even bigger problem. Ulfric Stormcloak lacks the unilateral authority to openly fight the Thalmor. Yes, the Stormcloaks won the civil war and every hold in Skyrim is now ruled by a Jarl that supports him, but until the Moot convenes and he is formally declared High King, he can't just call for all the holds to send soldiers to drive out the Thalmor.

Headscratchers / The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim 2

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Headscratchers / The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim 2

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The Companions

The College of Winterhold

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The Dark Brotherhood

The Civil War

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