Lost And Found - TV Tropes

Lost And Found

You've got this trope sticking in your mind. You can remember the general idea, and maybe an example or two, but you'll be damned if you can remember what the thing's called, and the search function turns up nothing relevant. Ask about it here.
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Hodor2
Medium:
10:06:52 PM 2nd Jul 2015
edited by Hodor2
I wondered if there was a trope for a work averting a potential bit of Unfortunate Implications / Fridge Horror.

I was thinking of Minions as an example- the premise has it that the Minions are drawn to serve the most despicable villains in history. This would seem to raise questions of their association with Hitler and/or Stalin- and this is obviously something the creators thought of because the Minions hang out in the Arctic between the 1890's and 1960's.
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DAN004
10:06:52 PM 2nd Jul 2015
This is another case of "looking too much into it", I guess.

I mean, I don't think they're going to the Arctic specifically to avoid Hitler or Stalin.

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MarqFJA
Medium:
08:15:58 PM 2nd Jul 2015
Do we have a trope for when a person who is a Superman-level Physical God in terms of sheer power willingly subjects himself to Brought Down to Normal once a year in an effort to maintain his ability to relate to the mortals that he has sworn to serve/protect, and thus avoid becoming an instance of Beware the Superman and/or Smug Super?
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Micah
08:15:58 PM 2nd Jul 2015

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DAN004
Medium:
07:43:41 PM 2nd Jul 2015
How could we differentiate For Great Justice and Justice Will Prevail?
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Khantalas
02:43:30 AM 30th Jun 2015
To me, it looks pretty clear based on the descriptions: For Great Justice is about the motivation, while Justice Will Prevail is about the inevitable outcome.

Of course, the actual implementation might be wildly different from the descriptions.
DAN004
03:00:20 PM 2nd Jul 2015
Bump for secind opinions
calmestofdoves
05:16:35 PM 2nd Jul 2015
edited by calmestofdoves
I candefinitely see For Great Justice bleeding into the Justice Will Prevail... Not good.

I'd mostly agree with Khant, with some additional clarification:
  • For Great Justice is generic motivation, a superhero's raison d'etre in-universe. It's a justification for putting themselves in harm's way — because they think justice is really important. It's the answer to the question "Why did you decide to put on the tights and fight crime?"
  • Justice Will Prevail is an assertion, an opinion, an idealistic attitude held by a character in-universe: genuine belief in a Just World. The hero's bone-deep faith that justice will triumph can serve as internal motivation or as the basis for a team-focused pep talk when things look grim. It answers the question, "why should we even bother when the deck looks like it's stacked against us?"
  • The Good Guys Always Win, which has the same grammatical construction as Justice Will Prevail, is a third trope that some might mistake for a clone; in actuality, TGGAW is just a fact of the universe, a meta trope external to the work. It answers the question, "How does the next story arc end?"

Seems like the first two are going to need some serious policing?
DAN004
07:43:41 PM 2nd Jul 2015
While I can see the difference, in practice the two are almost inseparable, as if having justice as your motivation will lead to you having belief about justice.

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eroock
Medium:
04:57:18 PM 2nd Jul 2015
Do we have something like Mock Execution, when Alice puts a gun to Bob's head and after some gloating she pulls the trigger but it's revealed to be a water pistol or an empty magazine.
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randomsurfer
04:57:18 PM 2nd Jul 2015
Fake Kill Scare is close.

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randomsurfer
Medium: Live Action TV
04:44:22 PM 2nd Jul 2015
edited by randomsurfer
Is there a trope covering a person running for President of the US? Not anyone from the two major parties, or even a possibly viable third party candidate; a crank with no conceivable chance of victory.
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calmestofdoves
08:48:48 PM 29th Jun 2015
Closest thing I found was Dork Horse Candidate. Underdog Victory and Dark Horse Victory are also clearly related, but involve, well, victory, so at best you'd be looking at a subversion.
randomsurfer
07:44:04 AM 30th Jun 2015
I had already found Dork Horse Candidate too, but the way it's written it's specifically about school elections.
calmestofdoves
09:21:07 AM 30th Jun 2015
edited by calmestofdoves
Yeah, I think you're out of luck on anything specifically presidential, as that's not really something that crops up a lot. You'd be well within your rights to list a presidential candidate that fits the general outline of the trope under Dork Horse Candidate, thought.
Freezer
10:35:52 AM 30th Jun 2015
BTW, is there a particular example you had in mind?

randomsurfer
07:09:12 PM 1st Jul 2015
edited by randomsurfer
Well, in an episode of Barney Miller one of the perps of the week is running as an independent for president. He's brought in on a weapons charge, specifically carrying an unlicensed firearm. He points out how easily he bought it (on the street) and one of his first priorities is to crack down on that sort of thing. He also has a plan to reduce the 50 states into a smaller number of "superstates." (That scene is cut from syndication so I don't remember how many.) He has no staff, just one man running for president. It's all treated as a huge joke by everyone but him.

See also Lyndon LaRouche for a fairly well known real life example.

EDIT: and Howard the Duck, who ran on the "All Night" Party. And Pat Paulsen, who was more of a Comically Serious joke candidate. And Stephen Colbert a couple of times.
calmestofdoves
08:15:57 PM 1st Jul 2015
Found some reality TV tropes that seemed appropriate — Inept Talent Show Contestant and Hopeless Auditionees.

See also Joke Character, found while searching "joke contestant" and "joke entry." If it wasn't solely about playable video game characters it'd be great.
DAN004
08:31:55 PM 1st Jul 2015
Dunno, ppl use Joke Character for Butt Monkey (or Dork Horse Candidate) nowadays.
Scorpion451
06:46:10 AM 2nd Jul 2015
^^ I have an ongoing crusade against needlessly video-game only tropes with a few victories already- this sounds like a really nice example of a non video game joke character.
DAN004
02:58:08 PM 2nd Jul 2015
But seriously, that'd be warping the established meaning of Joke Character we already have.

At least make a new one. Many tropes are story/gameplay versions of each other.
SolipSchism
04:08:34 PM 2nd Jul 2015
Ordinarily I'd agree with you, Scorpion, but in this case I don't think the definition of Joke Character fits here, and not just because it's a "video game trope".

I could see an argument for either side, but in this case I think a new trope might be more appropriate.
calmestofdoves
04:44:22 PM 2nd Jul 2015
Crank Candidate, Extreme Fringe Candidate, Moonshot Candidate, pick your poison.

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DAN004
Medium:
02:59:53 PM 2nd Jul 2015
Do we have a trope for "Big Neutral"?
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Scorpion451
08:03:25 PM 6th Jun 2015
That would be the sleeping giant of Awakening the Sleeping Giant.
DAN004
12:59:34 AM 7th Jun 2015
More like, a leader of a neutral faction that goes along with a Big Good and a Big Bad.
DAN004
08:45:29 PM 25th Jun 2015
Bump plz.
Scorpion451
10:33:22 AM 26th Jun 2015
edited by Scorpion451
Same answer is still my first suggestion. The sleeping giant doesn't have to be a single entity, just a potentially game changing force that had previously been trying to stay out of the conflict. For a few possible examples, it could be...

If the force isn't of the "could curb stomp both sides of the fight if they really wanted to" variety it can also be Neutral No Longer (but wouldn't be as likely to qualify for big neutral status.)
Chabal2
11:03:44 AM 26th Jun 2015
DAN004
11:29:28 AM 26th Jun 2015
Maybe just one example coming to mind
  • Mega Man Zero 4: In between Ciel's Resistance and the Neo Arcadian Empire under Dr. Weil's rule, there's the Caravan refugee group led by Rafale, who sees the whole conflict as pointless and is more concerned of keeping the refugees alive and staying out of harm's way.

Scorpion451
06:41:07 AM 27th Jun 2015
DAN004
02:59:53 PM 2nd Jul 2015
No satisfactory answer yet, so bump

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callsignecho
Medium:
02:55:35 PM 2nd Jul 2015
edited by callsignecho
Is there a trope (besides All Men Are Perverts) to describe how the boys in The Almighty Johnsons instantly assume that the end of Odin's quest to find Frigg is when they consummate their relationship? In fact that was totally unnecessary, and never actually mentioned in the prophecy. She just had to choose her Odin.

I'm trying to see if there's a trope that covers how enthusiastically and without question the guys all assume it means they have to actually sleep together, to the point that one character's solution is just to have Axl bang every vaguely Nordic-looking hot girl that comes along. But when the real Frigg finally comes along she basically just points and says "that's the one." It's almost like the marriage was redundant, as well.
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Scorpion451
01:01:20 PM 30th Jun 2015
DAN004
02:14:24 PM 30th Jun 2015
So a trope about "too quickly jumping onto conclusions"?

I heard we have a ykttw to that effect before, its title was along the lines of "Stopped Reading Too Soon".
Scorpion451
02:36:48 PM 30th Jun 2015
^ I suggested Prophetic Fallacy in the "its exactly this trope" sense.
callsignecho
11:59:48 AM 1st Jul 2015
Prophetic Fallacy is almost the opposite of what I'm looking for. The prophecy just said, "Frigg will choose her Odin, and the house of Odin will be rebuilt." The guys—for no apparent reason besides "because, sex"—interpret that as meaning Frigg and Odin hook up. There's nothing misleading at all about the prophecy. For a prophecy it's actually unusually clear and literal.

And what I'm actually looking for is not a prophecy trope at all. I'm talking about how the guys made the interpretive leap from "choose" to "bang" without any hesitation.
SolipSchism
12:53:52 PM 1st Jul 2015
edited by SolipSchism
It sounds like it could be a riff on a Prophetic Fallacy but it sounds more like the broader Prophecy Twist.

The difference being that a Prophetic Fallacy occurs when the prophecy, while not wrong, is incomplete or deceptive; a Prophecy Twist is when the prophecy is simply vague.

If the prophecy said "Frigg will bang Odin," and when the prophecy comes true Frigg literally hits Odin in the head with a frying pan, that's a Prophetic Fallacy.

In this case, the phrasing of the prophecy is vague, but given the usual nature of these things, it's not unreasonable to assume that "Frigg will choose her Odin" implies sex or at least a romantic/sexual relationship of some sort; but it turns out that's simply not the case. The "twist" is that it's literally just what it says, unlike most prophecies.
Scorpion451
01:40:34 PM 1st Jul 2015
edited by Scorpion451
Having seen season 1 of the show myself (spoiler discretion appreciated by the way), still voting for Prophetic Fallacy, but Prophecy Twist works too. One big factor that warrants mentioning is that their oracle is an Erudite Stoner who tends to use a lot of euphemisms and innuendo. (ie, it was unusual that he just said something without any ambiguity or metaphor for once, even moreso than your usual prophecy.)

On the simple language side of it, might look at Imagined Innuendo; Seems like a good fit.

DAN004
08:33:28 PM 1st Jul 2015
SolipSchism
10:31:55 AM 2nd Jul 2015
^ "Choose" is hardly a metaphor for anything, literal or otherwise, especially in this context.
Scorpion451
12:18:23 PM 2nd Jul 2015
edited by Scorpion451
^^ & ^ Actually I think I follow Dan's chain of logic here: A situation like this could be a Literal Metaphor in some scenarios ("you must touch the sun to open the passage" = you have to touch the sun in the engraving on the wall, not set yourself on fire) In this exact example, however, there is no metaphor, just a plain statement of fact assumed to be a euphamism.

Also did some more thinking, and something hit me. Their idea isn't really a Non Sequitur, they're just Wrong Genre Savvy: They know that Frigg is one of the archetypical Earth Mothers. They know that Frigg and Oden were married in the stories. They also assume that the prophecy is going to be vague and poetic because prophecies are always vague and poetic, especially Olaf's. Thus you you get the Entertainingly Wrong conclusion that choose = chooses a husband, in the old school sense.
SolipSchism
12:29:53 PM 2nd Jul 2015
^ Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking, although you stated it much better than I was doing. :p
callsignecho
12:38:24 PM 2nd Jul 2015
^ That's it! They are Wrong Genre Savvy, and are expecting (hoping for) Aliens Made Them Do It. "Frigg has to put out cause that's how the prophecy is fulfilled...right?"

I might start a YKTTW for the proxy version of Aren't You Going to Ravish Me?. Like...Aren't The Aliens Going To Make Us Do It? Or something.
DAN004
02:55:35 PM 2nd Jul 2015
Maybe Literal-Minded as well, but inverted: the prophecy is read metaphorically when it means it literally.

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BradyLady
Medium:
10:07:25 AM 2nd Jul 2015
What's the trope for someone out for a walk who almost gets hit by a bicycle, dodges it, is relieved, and then ends up getting hit by a truck?
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Khantalas
10:07:25 AM 2nd Jul 2015
Sounds sort of like Take a Moment to Catch Your Death.

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Khantalas
Medium:
06:50:43 AM 2nd Jul 2015
I know we must have this, I've seen it several times before, and now I can't find it. What is the trope page for when a character blurts out something when he is pushed, and only afterwards realizes what he said is true. Usually happens with declarations of love, but none of the declaration of love tropes fit, and it can happen with other emotions (usually fear) or events.
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DAN004
04:24:15 AM 2nd Jul 2015
Maybe an example?
Khantalas
04:32:30 AM 2nd Jul 2015
For example, when two characters are arguing (in the example I'm thinking of, about why one is endangering himself in a duel), and one of them suddenly blurts out "because I love you!", and then realizes for the first time, yes, he does indeed love her.
DAN004
05:08:08 AM 2nd Jul 2015
So I guess it involves some kind of epiphany.
calmestofdoves
06:30:03 AM 2nd Jul 2015
I've been looking for ages, but the closest I've gotten is still Armor-Piercing Question.

Accidental Truth also came up, but it doesn't work the way you need it to work.
Scorpion451
06:50:43 AM 2nd Jul 2015
edited by Scorpion451
Complicated combo here:

Freudian Slip + Love Confession + Love Epiphany

(Sounds like some crosslinking is needed)


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Chabal2
Medium:
04:23:34 AM 2nd Jul 2015
edited by Chabal2
Something like Obliviously Hypocritical, where the character doesn't realize they're guilty of the behavior they're remonstrating in someone else.

For example, a scene that goes like this: two kids playing amateur detectives follow one of the suspects and witness her passionately kissing another man. Then they go back to the chief of police, tell him what happened, and add that she'll be expecting a baby sometime soon. The chief nearly has a heart attack thinking they witnessed the couple having sex, but wants to make sure. The kids look pityingly at him, and condescendingly tell him babies don't come from cabbages... they come when grownups kiss each other on the mouth. The much-relieved chief thanks them and looks into the suspect's unknown lover.

Here, the kids don't know they're wrong but think the chief is an ignoramus.

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DAN004
04:23:34 AM 2nd Jul 2015

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MacronNotes
Medium:
02:30:34 AM 2nd Jul 2015
Do we have a trope for a teacher (usually female) who has a tendacy to bring up their personal or love life in the classroom?
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Chabal2
02:30:34 AM 2nd Jul 2015

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ConnorGorden
Medium:
07:51:05 PM 1st Jul 2015
What is the trope for a hero being forced to stop fighting on threat of their loved ones being hurt by the big bad if they don't?
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SolipSchism
02:42:03 PM 1st Jul 2015
eroock
04:00:52 PM 1st Jul 2015
For the subtle variant see The Villain Knows Where You Live.
jormis29
07:51:05 PM 1st Jul 2015

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nurg
Medium:
07:00:57 PM 1st Jul 2015
What's the trope name for Fictional Character Invents a Real Historical Thing? Not Invention Pretension, which is when a character brags they were the one to create it, but a la Clan of the Cave Bear where Ayla invents the needle and thread (as well as a good deal more; busy Cro-Magnon, that girl).
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jormis29
06:06:50 AM 1st Jul 2015
nurg
06:16:54 AM 1st Jul 2015
The spirit of the descriptions for Inventor of the Mundane doesn't seem to fit exactly, but maybe that means the descriptions could use some expanding. Historical examples that are shown occurring in the story, not just referred to as "hey, I invented this in the past" probably should go into that trope too. Thanks very much!

(Sorry for my lack of linkage html.)
Scorpion451
08:29:30 AM 1st Jul 2015
edited by Scorpion451
"I invented this in the past" is Been There, Shaped History. It can also be inventor of the mundane if they invented something ubiquitous like needle and thread, but the "a character invented something hugely important" thing is Been There Shaped History.

See also This Is Going To Be Huge, It Will Never Catch On, You Will Be Beethoven, and Beethoven Was an Alien Spy.

To makes links on the site, just type the name in CamelCase. No HTML code required. There's also some fancier stuff like this involving brackets and braces, which you can read about here
nurg
11:19:21 AM 1st Jul 2015
Oh, these are good peripherals, thanks! And thanks also for the link lesson; I'll use it for my next post!
callsignecho
12:04:35 PM 1st Jul 2015
Oh man, I was looking for Been There, Shaped History! Thanks!
randomsurfer
07:00:57 PM 1st Jul 2015
Creative Caveman ykttw

FWIW Ayla doesn't invent needle & thread, but she is the first person (as far as we know) to apply the concept to suturing a human body which has been sliced open.

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harryhenry
Medium:
08:36:10 AM 1st Jul 2015
edited by harryhenry
Is there a trope for when a design for a poster/cover/whatever makes it so that some words are way larger or smaller than other words to trick customers into thinking it's something else? Here's some visual examples to make this less confusing: shark JAWS and BATTLE of LOS ANGELES
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Scorpion451
05:29:03 AM 1st Jul 2015
Bisected8
06:35:52 AM 1st Jul 2015
I think using different sized fonts that way would fall under Quote Mine.
Scorpion451
08:36:10 AM 1st Jul 2015
edited by Scorpion451
^ Only if its something like
"This is not the best movie I've seen this year"
—Famous Movie Critic

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sgamer82
Medium:
08:31:34 AM 1st Jul 2015
edited by sgamer82
Is there a trope currently on the site for when The Hero (or any character, really) evades the destruction of his home/hometown/home planet/etc for the simple reason that dumb luck had him somewhere else?

We have tropes like Doomed Hometown and Watching Troy Burn but they aren't quite the same thing as the idea I have in mind is that the character left home to do some minor or relatively inconsequential task and discovers that his home has been effectively destroyed.

While not strictly matching the above, the first example I can think of offhand is the Saiyans of Dragon Ball. Their home world was destroyed by Freeza, and only four survived because they were offplanet at the time. It's said that Freeza specifically kept Vegeta alive, so he isn't an example himself, but no such provision was made for the other three.

Another instance: Luke Skywalker returning to the Lars Homestead in Star Wars A New Hope. He would've been there had R2-D2 not wandered off in search of Obi-Wan Kenobi, forcing Luke to chase him.

In both cases, the characters evaded their own destruction due to outside events.
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calmestofdoves
04:41:55 PM 30th Jun 2015
edited by calmestofdoves
Late to the Tragedy seems closest, though the description is more about its use as a video game setup and less about showing up to your own genocide 15 minutes late with Starbucks.

ETA: But What About the Astronauts? might be even better.
sgamer82
05:12:54 PM 30th Jun 2015
edited by sgamer82
If it's okay with you, calmestofdoves, in the event I can't find the trope and end up creating a YKTTW for it, I'm going to try and incorporate that Starbucks line.

I remember now coming across Late to the Tragedy before. Definitely a "Compare to" trope, though it focuses on finding out what caused the tragedy in the first place. Not a strict requirement for this idea. But What About the Astronauts? could be a sub-trope since it's a similar idea that can overlap (in fact the Dragon Ball example is there).

If I do make this a YKTTW wonder what I should call it. I'd thought of Away During The Apocalypse, though the destruction may not necessarily be world ending.
calmestofdoves
05:20:51 PM 30th Jun 2015
edited by calmestofdoves
I think Away During The Apocalypse sounds too much like Slept Through the Apocalypse. I get that it's probably supposed to riff off the name of the existing trope, but at a glance they just look like they're about exactly the same thing.

Life-Saving Absence might work. Or something snarky like Good Thing You Were Out Of Town, or I Knew I Shouldn't Have Stayed Home Today for a riff on Arnold's line from The Magic School Bus. And absolutely feel free to use the Starbucks line :)
sgamer82
05:23:17 PM 30th Jun 2015
edited by sgamer82
Actually the similarity to Slept Through the Apocalypse is pure coincidence. I think I'd come across that trope but completely forgot about it, so it wasn't in my conscious mind at all.

I like Life Saving Absence, but it almost sounds like you're saving someone else's life by not being there, a la some of the entries in Daddy Had a Good Reason for Abandoning You.
calmestofdoves
05:29:11 PM 30th Jun 2015
Slept Through the Apocalypse is a fairly prominent link on Late to the Tragedy, so I assumed you'd seen it there.

Life-Saving Absence could be dressed up as needed with helpful adjectives: Convenient Life-Saving Absence, Accidental Life-Saving Absence, Well-Timed Life-Saving Absence, etc.
sgamer82
05:31:02 PM 30th Jun 2015
was slow to notice the extra ones you added.

Of the three there, I think Good Thing You Were Out Of Town could work the best.

I Knew I Shouldnt Have Stayed Home Today sounds like they survive by not leaving. Though that does make me think of an alternate form of the trope, avoiding disaster at school or work by skipping that day. I remember hearing accounts of that sort of thing happening on the Oklahoma City Bombing.
calmestofdoves
05:55:54 PM 30th Jun 2015
Knew I Shouldnt Have Stayed Home Today was kind of predicated on the assumption that the surviving character was being targeted, and would thus be better off if they weren't home when the tragedy occurred, as in But What About the Astronauts?

Sorry about ninja edits — I'm not used to the other person actually being there to read my comments as soon as they're posted.
sgamer82
06:10:40 PM 30th Jun 2015
S'all right, wasn't really trying to just been refreshing every so often.

If this ends up going to YKTTW, then the character may not necessarily need to be the target of the destruction involved.

That's actually makin gme think of something completely unrelated. Villain targets hometown, succeeds in killing the hero, but a random survivor ends up becoming a new hero. Hm...
DAN004
02:40:53 AM 1st Jul 2015
So... has it been made yet? The ykttw.
sgamer82
07:54:14 AM 1st Jul 2015
Not yet, but since we don't seem to have it I'll try and get out made sometime today. I think I've got the workable examples with Luke, the saiyans, and the Oklahoma City bombing thing if i can find the article
sgamer82
08:31:34 AM 1st Jul 2015
edited by sgamer82
You know, looking at it for comparison's sake, it seems like Slept Through the Apocalypse may cover this trope. Went ahead and posted the YKTTW anyway, figure I can get additional opinions.

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Dix
Medium:
04:01:54 AM 1st Jul 2015
edited by Dix
Is there a trope that covers situations where a character literally kills themselves? Not as a suicide, but themselves from another time/dimension/duplicates created by science as magic, etc.

As an example, Stewie Griffin has shot himself from the future; and in Schlock Mercenary a character killed an exact duplicate of himself so that everyone would think he was dead.

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DAN004
03:50:47 AM 30th Jun 2015
edited by DAN004
then it isn't exactly "killing yourself", it's "killing your Alternate Self".
Dix
05:25:25 AM 30th Jun 2015
edited by Dix
Ah, there we go - thanks Dan. A quick bit of digging doesn't show a specific sub-trope for killing your alternate selves (although it would have limited overlap with "Expendable Clone"), and I can think of at least five examples where the killing was part of the story.

Unless anyone can think of a reason why not - does this count as a sub-trope or a Same-But-Different - I'll submit this under YTTW for review.
DAN004
05:43:18 AM 30th Jun 2015
What's more important is why you want/have to kill your alternate self, or what can possibly happen/what you can possibly get from it.

At least if you do make the ykttw, make sure to note them.
Dix
06:32:32 AM 30th Jun 2015
edited by Dix
Will do - I should have been cleared in my reply and said that I can think of examples where killing an alternate is a central or intentional part of the story, rather than just a random happening.
Scorpion451
12:27:22 PM 30th Jun 2015
Might also look at Future Me Scares Me, I Hate Past Me, Evil Me Scares Me and Other Me Annoys Me for some common reasons this happens.
Dix
04:01:54 AM 1st Jul 2015
Will do, thanks

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Ion288
Medium: Live Action TV
03:10:49 AM 1st Jul 2015
Someone wants to kill or punish a character for crimes committed his parents or more distant relatives.

Babylon 5 has it under Sins Of The Father but that redirects to a Fan Fic.
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jormis29
02:26:22 AM 1st Jul 2015
edited by jormis29
It's plural, see Sins of Our Fathers. There is also Revenge by Proxy
Ion288
02:30:49 AM 1st Jul 2015
Thank you. Fixing entry
Dix
03:06:22 AM 1st Jul 2015
edited by Dix
Sins of Our Fathers - assuming you mean crimes committed by the parents, and not to them?

Edit - Also Ninja'd. Rassum-frassum-painfully-slow-work-proxy..
Bisected8
03:10:49 AM 1st Jul 2015
edited by Bisected8
The actual trope is Sins Of Our Fathers.

EDIT: Ninja'd. That's what I get for not refreshing a page before replying.

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zeromass
Medium:
09:44:09 PM 30th Jun 2015
when a maid/cat girl/talking pet calls someone master.
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Scorpion451
09:44:09 PM 30th Jun 2015
Just calling someone master is a Stock Phrase.

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Adept
Medium:
05:52:28 PM 30th Jun 2015
A trope distinction question: what's the difference between Ship Tease and Will They or Won't They?? The laconic references to each other, and at a glance, both seem to mean "characters have a lot of romantic subtext, but isn't an official couple... yet".
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PPPSSC
09:22:10 AM 30th Jun 2015
I think the difference is that Ship Tease can be a single moment that may not mean much other than a joke or fanservice for shippers, while Will They or Won't They? is when the writers continue to use Ship Tease rather than put them together officially past the point when the audience has decided the couple is inevitable.
calmestofdoves
09:28:00 AM 30th Jun 2015
edited by calmestofdoves
Yeah. Will They or Won't They? is for when the couple is basically a foregone conclusion; Ship Tease covers situations where they may never be a canon couple of any kind — see Bait-and-Switch Lesbians.
DAN004
02:18:38 PM 30th Jun 2015
^ "never" you said? I've seen a lot of Official Couples with a lot of Ship Teases long before they officially go together?
Scorpion451
02:37:43 PM 30th Jun 2015
edited by Scorpion451
^ may never. Important difference.
Adept
05:35:36 PM 30th Jun 2015
Wait, if Will They or Won't They? is a foregone conclusion, doesn't that defeat the purpose of They Do?
calmestofdoves
05:52:28 PM 30th Jun 2015
edited by calmestofdoves
We all know they will, we're just not entirely sure when in the canon timeline it's going to happen. Five seconds from the end, like Ross and Rachel? Or significantly earlier, like Castle and Beckett? They Do is specifically for the point in the story where Will They or Won't They? gets answered by the story once and for all.

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Malady
Medium:
05:29:40 PM 30th Jun 2015
edited by Malady
Is there a trope for when Internalized Categorism is more than internal, but like some kind of Externalized Categorism, in that the person transforms to conform into their category?

Positively: I believe I'm a superhero, so eventually, I'll turn into one.

Negatively: I believe I'm a demon, so eventually, I'll turn into one.

Is it just a specific manifestation of Your Mind Makes It Real?

Or Clap Your Hands If You Believe?
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calmestofdoves
05:15:46 PM 30th Jun 2015
Are we talking about a magical kind of transformation, or something more like Becoming the Mask?

Your Mind Makes It Real only sounds relevant because of the title — it's more about "if you die in the dream, you die in real life." The only mental thing that becomes real is whatever damage you're taking.

I'd say it's mostly Clap Your Hands If You Believe if it's magical, with maybe an occasional side-helping of Psychoactive Powers.

Other related tropes that came up in my search: Magic Feather, Motivational Lie, Placebo Effect, Achievements in Ignorance.
Malady
05:24:09 PM 30th Jun 2015
Yeah, I think it is Clap Your Hands If You Believe for magical transformations conforming with an internalized category.

But, if it isn't magical, like, from the Internalized Categorism of a certain African-American man who believes that black people are lazy criminals and rapists. If he doesn't live like that but initially, but starts to think "If they think I'm a criminal, why bother resisting?" and then becomes a criminal, isn't that Then Let Me Be Evil?
calmestofdoves
05:26:31 PM 30th Jun 2015
Definitely. And there's also Self-Fulfilling Prophecy for that sort of thing more generally.
Malady
05:29:40 PM 30th Jun 2015
Thanks for your help! Calmest of Doves!

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Micah
Medium:
05:04:15 PM 30th Jun 2015
edited by Micah
Do we have the trope where an imprisoned person shown doing calisthenics in their cell is probably going to escape shortly thereafter? Examples include:

  • Iroh in season 3 of Avatar: The Last Airbender spends several episodes doing progressively more difficult exercises in his cell while the guards aren't looking (and stuffing a pillow down his belly when they are, so they don't notice the change in his physique) before breaking out during the Day of Black Sun, when his guards can't firebend.
  • Sarah Connor in Terminator 2 is first seen in a mental institution, doing chin-ups to indicate the level in badass she's taken since the first movie. It doesn't take long before she's escaping in the middle of a Terminator-fight.
  • Jenny Mills on Sleepy Hollow is also first seen in an institution, doing chin-ups. She escapes at the end of the next episode.
  • Grant Ward on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. apparently has a whole exercise routine that he runs through starting at 5:30 every morning. This has apparently been going on for a while, but the first the audience sees of it is at the beginning of the episode which ends with him breaking out.
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jormis29
04:55:40 PM 30th Jun 2015
Micah
05:04:15 PM 30th Jun 2015
Sounds good. Thanks!

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ShorinBJ
Medium:
02:50:34 PM 30th Jun 2015
I'm looking for a trope that's something like a Shaggy Dog Story, but more...short term. See, I'm playing Dark Cloud 2, and after you fight your way through a sewer and all the hassle that implies, Cedric immediately shows up in a train. He just rode it out of town, and WTF? It's not even like you got out of town and found a quick, easy path that could be opened only from the outside the story renders your journey through the sewer pointless, except for the experience gained.

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Scorpion451
02:50:34 PM 30th Jun 2015
Sounds like Stupidity Is the Only Option for the player, while Cedric took a Dungeon Bypass on the train.

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Lyner
Medium:
02:48:16 PM 30th Jun 2015
What's it called when someone realizes something suspicious is not what they expect it to be, but something far worse, and possibly an impossible opposite?

For instance, an old book I enjoyed, a semi-Christian thriller called Leviathan, has a man in a bizarre island facility full of heavy security with an area surrounded by thick walls and other devices, but when a minor accident occurs he can immediately see by where the soldiers point the guns that the defenses aren't to keep people from getting into that area, but to keep whatever's in there from getting out.

In a much more recent, ongoing series, people are trapped, surrounded by high walls with electric fences, barbed wire, etc. For a while the characters wonder why so much effort was taken to make sure no one got out, but it's later revealed that these defenses were taken to make sure that something else doesn't get in.
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SolipSchism
02:26:20 PM 29th Jun 2015
Actually, it sounds like what you're looking at is a trope about a fortification actually being a cage, or vice versa, which is so common that I'm surprised I'm not finding it.

That setup is incredibly common. In Mass Effect 1 when you're entering the Noveria labs, one of your squadmates (I usually have Wrex with me) wonders aloud why the turrets are facing inward. (Wrex's dialogue is along the lines of "What idiot installed these turrets facing backwards?") and the other character has a comically-ominous line to the effect of, "omg they're not intended to keep intruders out, but to keep something in."

Tons of works have the "Oh my gosh, the defenses aren't intended to keep intruders out, they're meant to keep some horrible creature in" variant, and I'm sure the inverse isn't terribly rare.
DAN004
02:32:34 PM 29th Jun 2015
I wanna call it "Fortress or Cage Reveal".
SolipSchism
02:36:52 PM 29th Jun 2015
I've been scouring the wiki for the last few minutes and I'm finding nothing. My mind is almost blown. I'm certain someone is just minutes away from dropping in here with the trope. If it doesn't exist I'm going to sue TVTropes.
calmestofdoves
09:51:58 PM 29th Jun 2015
Inward-Facing Fortress, Outward-Pointing Prison would be a cool pair of redirects to one long title.

I tried looking too, but best I got is Epiphanic Prison, where you only realize it's a prison if you have an epiphany. The inverse, I suppose, would be when you only realize it's NOT a prison when you have an epiphany.
SolipSchism
09:41:08 AM 30th Jun 2015
^ No—you're getting caught up in the word "prison" and the idea of having a realization about it, but in fact that trope is not even remotely close to this. Read that description more closely and then look at some of the examples. That's way more of an abstract trope than we're looking at here. That's more closely related to Lotus-Eater Machine or even Ironic Hell in some cases—it's a prison that you can't escape because you metaphysically don't realize it's a prison, you think you're in an Ironic Hell or frolicking through the fields or whatever. And once you have your epiphany, the illusion is broken and you can escape.

The trope we're looking at doesn't have any weird metaphysical or illusory trappings like that; it's a facility that appears to be either a fortress or prison, and turns out to be the opposite. I think the "Fortress-turns-out-to-be-prison" variant is more common than the inverse, but examples could back that up or refute it.
calmestofdoves
11:15:47 AM 30th Jun 2015
Hey, all I said was "the best I got," Skizzles. I know it's not quite right, but the "can't escape until you realize it's a prison" is consistent. If you genuinely think you live in a fortress designed to protect you, you'll have to notice that the turrets are facing inwards before you realize that maybe it's a prison instead.

Epiphanic Prison does include examples where there are walls of some kind between the prisoner and the outside world, yet the most important part of the prison is that the prisoner doesn't know it's a prison. There doesn't have to be a virtual reality or magical illusion for the trope to apply. For instance, there's The Truman Show, or Rapunzel's tower in Tangled, where she thinks she's in an isolated valley in an unclimbable tower to prevent people from kidnapping her, when really she's been a kidnapping victim her whole life. There are several other examples of characters being kept in such luxury they don't even notice they're in a prison — but the luxury is real, not the result of a Lotus-Eater Machine.

The reason the overlap isn't complete is that (1) obviously Epiphanic Prison doesn't cover stuff that seems like a prison but is actually a fortress, and (2) it doesn't cover stuff that was never meant to conceal its nature from its prisoners but looks like a fortress at first glance to the people breaking in to it, as in the Mass Effect example.
calmestofdoves
11:29:45 AM 30th Jun 2015
edited by calmestofdoves
The first thing that came to mind for me was the City in a Bottle setup from The Island, where the clones are kept complacent with the fiction that they've survived an apocalypse by staying inside, but of course the reason for all the layers between them and the outside world isn't the threat of radiation, it's because they're prisoners.

I also thought of Rapunzel's Revenge, where Rapunzel grows up in Mother Gothel's fortress never knowing that (a) she's a kidnap victim or (b) the world outside is a Crapsack one and Mother Gothel is its Evil Overlord. Her attempt to break out is more Defector from Decadence than this particular trope, but I thought of it because the first thing Gothel does after Rapunzel gets wise is stick her in a real prison. So she was essentially a prisoner in the fortress the whole time, but only realized it when she tried to leave. Same thing happens to Ella in Just Ella, where she doesn't realize she can't break her engagement or leave the castle until she tries, at which point she wakes up in the dungeons.

Can even happen in real life with Abusive Parents, where you don't realize how much you're not allowed to do until you actually try — lots of controlling parents justify their rules by saying they're meant to keep you safe, when all they really do is keep you locked away, and this will become much more obvious when you start trying to break rules and are met with not concern for your well-being but rage and locked doors. Not quite what you were going for, but seems related?

I'm thinking of taking this over to YKTTW because Skizz is right, it needs to exist, but now I'm sort of conflicted about how many variants can be smoothly included in a single trope.
SolipSchism
12:50:49 PM 30th Jun 2015
edited by SolipSchism
I still think it's too distinct to even relate it to Epiphanic Prison, because the overlap is completely coincidental. Nothing about the trope we're discussing suggests that you "have to realize it's a prison" before you can escape. Just because a trope involves a reveal doesn't mean it's related to every other trope that involves a reveal.

That said, I think the core definition of this trope would be "A facility that appears to be a fortress designed to keep intruders out is Revealed to actually be a prison intended to keep something terrible in—or vice versa." The key factors of the trope would be The Reveal, and the inward/outward defenses. Most importantly The Reveal, because the moment The Reveal happens is when the trope comes into play.

It also needs to be commented on in some way, because if it's not, then there's no indication that the characters actually had the realization that is necessary to the trope. Even if it's only implied, there needs to be some verbal acknowledgment of it by a character.

EDIT: I haven't seen Tangled, but based on your description I'm inclined to say that's shoehorning. For it to be an Epiphanic Prison, the epiphany needs to inherently be necessary for escape. I don't know the specifics, though, because I haven't seen it.
calmestofdoves
01:43:29 PM 30th Jun 2015
You're focusing on this part of the definition...

A prison doesn't need to have four walls, a ceiling, and a floor.

...while I'm focusing on this one:
After all, if you think you are free, no escape is possible.

I'm interpreting the "a prison doesn't need to have four walls," etc, as metaphorical — there may be walls, but if the person trapped behind them doesn't think of themselves as trapped, then the prison is an Epiphanic one, because they won't try to escape unless they have an epiphany. I can see the logic for restricting the trope to only prisons that are literally escaped via epiphany, but going by the current definition, which includes lines like...

Sometimes it's understanding of one's surroundings, of why one is trapped, and thus what must be done to escape.

...I think prisons that have to do with deception and manipulation rather than literal illusions of freedom are accepted. And, if manipulating someone to think their prison is a fortress is a legitimate case of Epiphanic Prison, then there's definite overlap with the Fortress Reveal or About Face Fortress or Inward Facing Fortress Outward Pointing Prison or whatever we're going to call it, because the Epiphany would be The Reveal, which you've pointed out is the important part.

Maybe it would help to have some more examples? I'm gonna start something on YKTTW and if I botch it horribly you can take it over.

SolipSchism
02:12:54 PM 30th Jun 2015
edited by SolipSchism
The problem is that "X can overlap with Y" does not mean X and Y are related tropes, or worth mentioning as such. Big Bad can overlap with Does Not Like Shoes (for example, a Big Bad who Does Not Like Shoes), but the two tropes are not related. They're just not mutually exclusive, like most pairs of random tropes. That's all I'm saying. There is potential for overlap in the same sense that any two tropes that aren't mutually exclusive have a potential to overlap—that does not make them related.

I don't think you'll horribly botch a YKTTW. I may disagree (strongly) on one point but that's not a gamebreaker. Care to drop a link here when you create it so I can find it easily? :D
calmestofdoves
02:48:16 PM 30th Jun 2015
Hmmmmph. I think they're related in the sense that it would be logical to mention Epiphanic Prison in the "related tropes" word cloud at the end of the description, but feel free to continue arguing for why that should not be so: About-Face Fortress

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Thainen
Medium: Videogame
12:57:33 PM 30th Jun 2015
Do we have these ones? Obvious tropes, but I can't find either. Enemies that use a simple pattern: 1)Melee enemies that always dumbly move directly towards the player, no matter what; 2)Shooting enemies that shoot slow (at least so slow that they can be dodged) projectiles directly at the player, so constant movement would make sure you're not hit.
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jormis29
06:14:26 AM 30th Jun 2015
randomsurfer
07:28:06 AM 30th Jun 2015
1 might be The Slow Walk or Self-Destructive Charge (give or take a charge).
Dix
07:56:10 AM 30th Jun 2015
edited by Dix
1) also sounds as though it would be a sub or specific class of Mooks
bitemytail
11:13:10 AM 30th Jun 2015
Scorpion451
12:57:33 PM 30th Jun 2015
edited by Scorpion451
1) Any and all of the already mentioned tropes, plus:

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Xinea
Medium:
07:51:31 AM 30th Jun 2015
Looking for a trope where person A and person B are talking face to face. Then person B has to make a confession or say something of great value... and turns AWAY from person A in order to say it. They proceed to have the conversation with Person A talking at Person B's back.

Happens in most soap operas. One of the things that irked me about Smallville.
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DAN004
10:58:13 PM 28th Jun 2015
Also happens in One Piece when Bartolomeo (who is Luffy's Fan Boy) tries to talk straight to Luffy as he's too embarrassed.
DAN004
10:58:14 PM 28th Jun 2015
Also happens in One Piece when Bartolomeo (who is Luffy's Fan Boy) tries to talk straight to Luffy as he's too embarrassed.
randomsurfer
08:59:49 AM 29th Jun 2015
Xinea
03:10:09 AM 30th Jun 2015
I think that's exactly it. Thank you!
Scorpion451
07:51:31 AM 30th Jun 2015
Interesting to note that this is actually something people do in real life with a little dramatic exaggeration. People who are confessing something they find shameful, or who are calling someone out that they don't want to confront, will often actively avoid looking directly at the person. Its also used to indicate that someone has disappointed or disgusted you with their behavior, to the point that you cannot look at them.

Its pretty fundamental body language- if a cat sits facing away from you staring at the wall or ground and/or licking a front paw while making occasional glances over their shoulder at you, it's basically this trope. They're saying "I'm really obviously ignoring the fact that you're ignoring me" or "You did not just see me roll off the couch. I have no idea what you're talking about."

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Khantalas
Medium:
03:26:08 AM 30th Jun 2015
I'm pretty sure we must have this, but since I couldn't find it:

Do we have a trope for a character who believes in nothing, but is willing to accept anything that can be demonstrated to him? Sort of like the Arbitrary Skepticism, but without the arbitrary part.
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calmestofdoves
10:17:44 AM 26th Jun 2015
Very funny, Skizz, but I think Skeptic No Longer is actually a decent fit. It's linked right on the Arbitrary Skepticism page, though, so maybe you, Khantalas, saw it and weren't satisfied?
Khantalas
11:07:24 PM 26th Jun 2015
It might be Chairs. On it's own, it doesn't drive much of the narrative. Usually, though, I see it paired with either the Agent Scully or the Agent Mulder (and sometimes both), acting as a foil to the beliefs of their partners.

As for Skeptic No Longer, that trope is more about a character who goes from believing in the non-existence of something to accepting its existence, such as someone saying "vampires aren't real" the whole movie finally accepti they exist after being attacked by one.
Scorpion451
09:13:28 AM 27th Jun 2015
edited by Scorpion451
^ How is that different from what you're describing? (Legitimate question, not sarcasm.)
Khantalas
12:31:03 AM 29th Jun 2015
The difference is between going from "vampires aren't real and you are silly for thinking they are" to "yes, I was wrong, and vampires are real" and going from "vampires might or might not be real, but I'm not going to rule it out" to "now I've met vampires, I know they are real".
Scorpion451
07:11:34 AM 29th Jun 2015
Sounds like just degrees of the same trope.
SolipSchism
10:28:20 AM 29th Jun 2015
edited by SolipSchism
^^ Also, "X might or might not be real but I'm not going to rule it out" is more agnostic than skeptic.

Agnosticism is all about allowing for possibilities which haven't been explicitly disproven—it's about not making any assertions until there is certainty (and, taken a bit further, the opinion that certainty itself is impossible, but that doesn't really apply here). If you tell me vampires exist, I'll say "Maybe, maybe not. I don't know, and I can't know, with the experience and information I currently have. I'm not even going to make a guess."

Skepticism is more oriented toward doubt in the absence of proof. If you tell me vampires exist, I'll say "No, that's absurd. Until you prove they do, I am going to assume they don't." Notably, skepticism generally places the burden of the proof on the person making the positive assertion (i.e., the person claiming vampires exist has to prove they do; the default assumption is that they don't, and no proof is needed).

In contrast, agnosticism places the burden of proof on anyone making any assertion; there is no default assumption except as to the possibility that anything not yet proven or disproven might be true.
Scorpion451
01:07:52 PM 29th Jun 2015
Other wiki covers the idea pretty well. Basically a true skeptical viewpoint boils down to "Never assume anything. This includes assuming you are correct."
SolipSchism
01:39:04 PM 29th Jun 2015
^ In the real world, yes. But even then, skepticism tends towards doubt in the absence of proof, whereas agnosticism tends toward refraining even from doubt—just abstaining from having an opinion at all.
Dix
03:26:08 AM 30th Jun 2015
edited by Dix
Actually, this sounds as though it would fit as a part of "Unfazed Everyman" - they may start out quite ordinary but accept whatever weirdness they encounter as being just another day.

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MarqFJA
Medium:
08:08:45 AM 29th Jun 2015
Is there a trope for when a fictional work references a real-life recent event and does anything from the equivalent of hanging a lampshade on a trope, to actually changing the course of history?

Example: All of the many Sailor Moon fanfics, one-shots or multi-chapter, that were written as a respone to the IAU's decision in 2007 to strip the planetary status of Pluto and demote it to a "dwarf planet", ranging from Sailor Pluto complaining about the news to her compatriots, to her coming to the IAU session in her full Sailor Soldier regalia and arguing against the decision in vain, to her deciding to just force them at the point of her magical staff to reverse their decision.
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Freezer
07:54:03 PM 28th Jun 2015
eroock
01:25:50 AM 29th Jun 2015
MarqFJA
08:08:45 AM 29th Jun 2015
Yeah, Ripped from the Headlines is it. Thanks.

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rin14100
Medium:
07:24:20 AM 29th Jun 2015
Is there a trope for a rich character who spends copious amounts of money on selfish purposes?
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DAN004
04:11:24 AM 29th Jun 2015
Define "selfish purposes"?
rin14100
04:19:45 AM 29th Jun 2015
edited by rin14100
stuff like funding evil projects, being an asshole or wasting it
Scorpion451
07:24:20 AM 29th Jun 2015
Numerous tropes. Idle Rich; the less charitable, more "Lets go buy a zepplin today." forms of Uncle Pennybags; Screw the Rules, I Have Money!; Corrupt Corporate Executive; Morally Bankrupt Banker; Conspicuous Consumption; Money Fetish...

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SgtFrog1
Medium:
07:09:20 AM 29th Jun 2015
edited by SgtFrog1
Do we have "Mind Horror" to go with Body Horror? I was reading an article on why people with Alzheimer's act a certain way (sometimes violently), how it's almost literally bits and pieces of your mind breaking off and fading away.

"Alzheimer's type dementia doesn't mean "Well, your brain is now totally gone and you have no control of your thoughts anymore." No, it starts slowly, little things, like where you parked, what you had for supper, the way to the beautician's... little things. But those losses are inexorable. They never stop, and they are cumulative throughout the day. All day; every day."
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Scorpion451
07:09:20 AM 29th Jun 2015
That would be Psychological Horror

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jgoulden
Medium: Film
02:00:54 PM 28th Jun 2015
A fairly obvious and well known setting is used in a show, but explained as something else. I was thinking in particular of the opera scene in The Fifth Element. It's obviously filmed in the Royal Opera House, and Ruby Rhod lampshades it by saying "It's an exact replica of..." Is this a trope?
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Chabal2
02:00:54 PM 28th Jun 2015
edited by Chabal2

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MeerkatMario
Medium:
12:12:50 PM 28th Jun 2015
I am looking for a trope where a character loses his/her voice and the others can't understand him/her. One example I know is in Super Mario Logan's "Bowser Loses His Voice!" where Bowser loses his voice after laughing too much from watching a Charleyyy and Friends episode.
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jormis29
05:43:41 PM 27th Jun 2015
rodneyAnonymous
02:30:37 AM 28th Jun 2015
Also possibly Tongue-Tied.
Scorpion451
12:12:50 PM 28th Jun 2015
edited by Scorpion451

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Iziahejf
Medium: Live Action TV
10:34:22 AM 27th Jun 2015
edited by Iziahejf
Is there a trope used to define a special episode like Buffy the Vampire Slayer's musical episode, and town-wide-laryngitis-epidemic or Supernatural's Changing Channels episode where the Winchester brothers find themselves in different TV shows, or the episode where they find out they really are in a tv show, or the time loop episode where the day that Dean dies never ends? I explored The Gimmick, but that trope didn't prove to be the correct one, and instead a gimmick of characters rather than an episode that tries to change the natural flow of a tv show with an element to make it stand out such as previously listed.

Thank you! List as many close ones as you can.
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randomsurfer
08:00:00 AM 27th Jun 2015
Something Completely Different, which is an index of assorted "departing from the general formula" tropes.

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StarTropes
Medium:
07:32:08 AM 27th Jun 2015
What is the trope for when someone tells you to do something and then behaves in a way that makes it harder for you to do it? For example, you're a detective and someone tells you to solve a case but refuses to cooperate with your investigation.
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DAN004
08:36:50 AM 24th Jun 2015
StarTropes
12:48:37 PM 24th Jun 2015
Not quite what I'm looking for. And I'm not specifically thinking about investigations with unhelpful witnesses (that was just the example that came to mind), but the general idea of someone nagging you to get something done while (deliberately or otherwise) making it harder for you to do your job.
SolipSchism
12:53:57 PM 24th Jun 2015
I can't help but think of the Illusive Man in Mass Effect 2, or to a lesser extent, the Council in the first game: Setting you to a task, but refusing to give you the slightest bit of assistance and often actively being a pain in your ass (the Council refusing to give you anything other than a title, and the Illusive Man frequently sabotaging your efforts under the guise of trying to help, by luring you into traps, feeding you misinformation, etc).

StarTropes
01:07:22 PM 24th Jun 2015
Yeah, kinda like that. Or, if we're talking investigations, someone who gives you a case to solve and doesn't just refuse to cooperate, but does things like stonewalling you when you try to gather information.
StarTropes
05:48:22 PM 26th Jun 2015
Bump.

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Ramona122003
Medium:
12:00:54 AM 27th Jun 2015
Hello,

Is there a trope for execs shoehorning in disliked characters? I know some examples go under Executive Meddling, but what do you call a character who gets shoehorn to the point that people call them a Creator's Pet, despite the creators themselves having no real fondness for them, but are forced to include them.
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Freezer
12:00:54 AM 27th Jun 2015

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notShemp
Medium:
05:24:39 PM 26th Jun 2015
Is there a trope where when after someone tries to convince someone to do something by talking to them but they refuse so as a last resort they offer a bribe which works. An example would be from Family Guy, in season one "Brian: Portrait of a Dog", when Brian is on trial, Peter speaks up for Brian and gives an emotional appeal to let Brian go:
Judge: Mr. Griffin, this dog is a danger to society. Albeit an articulate and charismatic one. But the law is the law and it can't be circumvented by pretty words.
Peter: I'll give you each $20.
Judge: Deal. He can go.

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Scorpion451
12:45:02 PM 25th Jun 2015
edited by Scorpion451
calmestofdoves
12:53:10 PM 25th Jun 2015
So, the times when the Comically Small Bribe actually works?
notShemp
01:09:43 PM 25th Jun 2015
I was thinking Every Man Has His Price at first but this is when the bribery is used as a last resort when nothing else works or does this also applies to that trope?
Scorpion451
05:24:39 PM 26th Jun 2015

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DAN004
Medium:
02:36:40 PM 26th Jun 2015
So I have this character. She's frequently going through existential and identity crisis because she's going through a new life against her will and forced to take on a new identity, and she's torn between embracing her new life with her friends or trying to go back to her old life because she feared that her friends may start hating her if they knew what kind of person she was. She at one point wonders if she'll lose her "old self" because of it.

What's the trope for this?
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DAN004
07:04:58 AM 21st Jun 2015
To make it clearer, the point of the trope is in "the hard decision she has to make".
eroock
08:14:45 AM 21st Jun 2015
edited by eroock
...
DAN004
02:48:43 AM 23rd Jun 2015
Bump
DAN004
08:46:28 PM 25th Jun 2015
Sorry, but bump
calmestofdoves
10:55:37 PM 25th Jun 2015
My sympathies for the lack of response — perhaps it would help if the description of the situation weren't so aggressively vague. Is she a spy, a superhero, on the run from the government, in a witness protection program, or just a transfer student in a new clique?

I'm definitely seeing shades of Refusal of the Call, Loss of Identity, Living a Double Life, Can't Stay Normal, Becoming the Mask, Secret Identity Identity, platonic The Masquerade Will Kill Your Dating Life and so on. Refusal of the Call is of course about a choice, but Leave Your Quest Test has more of that existential angst you're going for.

Then there' s your brief allusion to the fact that maybe this character's new friends wouldn't like her old self — that suggests things like Keeping Secrets Sucks, The One Who Made It Out, Reformed, but Rejected, and, if she picks the old life, Then Let Me Be Evil.

Conflicting Loyalty is the most obvious match, but it's probably too broad to be satisfying.
DAN004
12:26:28 AM 26th Jun 2015
Well, I tried to make my question be as all-encompassing as possible, but the particular example that made me ask this is... indeed, a school clique.

No spoilers here, btw
  • BlazBlue Remix Heart: Protagonist Mai Natsume, a female first year student in the Military Academy, was once a guy who suffered Gender Bender by a magic artifact and is forced to live in the girls' dorm room. She hides this fact from her new friends and tries time and time again to become a normal guy. Slowly but surely, however, she startes to like her new life because she felt that being a girl is nice, she can get True Companions and her life becomes brighter overall than before ("he" was a sheltered aristocrat with a hard life). She still feels uneasy from time to time and fears that her friends may hate her if they ever know abut her condition.

calmestofdoves
01:51:51 AM 26th Jun 2015
edited by calmestofdoves
Becoming the Mask seems far more relevant now, for starters, as does Secret Identity Identity and Keeping Secrets Sucks, but knowing the exact context suggests the even more relevant Second Law of Gender Bending and Shapeshifter Identity Crisis.

see also: You Can't Go Home Again, Stranger in a Familiar Land.

What exactly is the "choice" you mentioned?

DAN004
03:35:35 AM 26th Jun 2015
The choice was whether to stay a girl or go back normal.

Shapeshifter Identity Crisis is perfect. (the others are good too, thanks for that :D)

SetsunasaNiWa
02:36:40 PM 26th Jun 2015
There can be room for First Law of Gender-Bending (or second), justified.

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SolipSchism
Medium:
02:00:11 PM 26th Jun 2015
Do we have something along the lines of Have I Mentioned I Am Heterosexual Today?, but for religion? i.e., a religious character in a mostly atheist or unknown cast, who frequently makes remarks or references to remind you that they are religious?

Examples would include Shirley from Community, in whom this trait is frequently lampshaded, and Mercedes from Glee, who is less obnoxious about it but does reference her faith much more frequently than any other character, like Rachel, who mentions her Judaism maybe a few times a season.
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DAN004
01:57:13 PM 26th Jun 2015
SolipSchism
02:00:11 PM 26th Jun 2015
That'll certainly do. Thanks!

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MeerkatMario
Medium:
11:33:38 AM 26th Jun 2015
Is there a trope that depicts a character as being kind and gentle, but really destruction-inducing inside?

I can think of the best example of this: in the Supermarioglitchy4s Super Mario 64 Bloopers episode "A Trip to Teletubby Land" (or whatever it's called) Mario sees some Teletubbies walking around peacefully, only for them to suddenly start causing havoc around their town.
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partner555
08:29:59 AM 26th Jun 2015
PPPSSC
09:28:34 AM 26th Jun 2015
DAN004
11:33:38 AM 26th Jun 2015

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Aszur
Medium: Videogame
11:25:28 AM 26th Jun 2015
Is there a trope for when NP Cs react to the P Cs running around? Run Don't Walk is always active but no one seems to question it.
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SolipSchism
10:12:52 AM 25th Jun 2015
That would probably just be a Lampshaded Run Don't Walk.
Scorpion451
12:56:44 PM 25th Jun 2015
edited by Scorpion451
Possibly also Conversed or Discussed, and sometimes He Knows About Timed Hits.
SolipSchism
01:03:37 PM 25th Jun 2015
^ Wait, what does that last one have to do with this?
Scorpion451
11:23:08 AM 26th Jun 2015
I've seen it now and then where NPC's break the fourth wall while lampshading the trope. I remember in the Pokemon game where they switched to run by default there was something like "Running forever without having to hold B. Ah, the wonders of modern technology!".
SolipSchism
11:25:28 AM 26th Jun 2015
^ Ooh. Huh. I didn't think that'd be common enough to warrant a mention, but yeah, I can see it now.

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Chabal2
Medium:
11:02:32 AM 26th Jun 2015
edited by Chabal2
What's the relationship trope where men avoid commitment at all cost, while women look solely for a husband, with a wedding being a clear defeat/victory for each? It's not quite The Casanova (the guy isn't necessarily unattractive, but would clearly have difficulty bedding any woman he sets sights on) nor Gold Digger (the woman usually wants love/affection, not just financial security) and it's the step before Awful Wedded Life.

As an example, someone summing up this situation by misquoting the inscription on the One Ring: "One ring to hold them, and in the darkness bind them".

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SolipSchism
10:36:57 AM 26th Jun 2015
Taken to its logical extreme in a joke about gay men and lesbians: "Gay men can't commit, lesbians can't not commit."

Or "Men use love to get sex, women use sex to get love."

Mars and Venus Gender Contrast is a very broad Super Trope that would cover this, but it might be reasonable to have a more specific trope.

You also have All Men Are Perverts and All Women Are Prudes, for another logical extreme.
Chabal2
11:02:32 AM 26th Jun 2015
edited by Chabal2
Yeah, it's an unholy mishmash of them all. Awful Wedded Life's picture would be better suited to this one.

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Rikun
Medium:
01:38:17 AM 26th Jun 2015
Is there a trope for the tendency of the government to weaponize any kind of scientific discovery? No matter what the original purpose of a certain experiment is, there always appears to be a military application to it.
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DAN004
01:38:17 AM 26th Jun 2015

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calmestofdoves
Medium:
11:39:09 PM 25th Jun 2015
edited by calmestofdoves
Is there a trope for when information leaks and the protagonists freak out and point fingers, assuming one of their own must be The Mole, but it turns out they just got hacked or bugged or otherwise compromised in some other simple mechanical way?

I'm thinking specifically of the Stargate Atlantis episode where the Wraith keep turning up at their landing sites and the Expedition suspects the Athosians, but it turns out to be a homing beacon in Teyla's necklace that Sheppard accidentally turned on.

I'm trying to remember other times conspirators started suspecting one another instead of coming to the seemingly straightforward conclusion that the traitor they're dealing with is battery-powered.
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calmestofdoves
06:26:35 PM 24th Jun 2015
edited by calmestofdoves
Did some digging on my own.

Related to electronic moles:

Related to accusing your friends of being The Mole:
  • Divided We Fall, for infighting among heroes that aids the enemy
  • Divide and Conquer, for when the villain is directly responsible for the infighting
  • A House Divided, for when heroes stuck in a bad situation start to lash out at each other
  • Blame Game, for when accusations of wrongdoing zigzag around the group
  • The Scapegoat, for when the wrong person takes the fall

All of these apply or are relevant, and I'm getting the impression that what I was originally looking for is just Too Rare to Trope.

At this point I'm wondering if there's any trope for when the hero (or the detective) has incorrectly narrowed down the suspect pool and is systematically going through a list that doesn't include the perpetrator because "it has to be one the following people," or, in the case of the heroes who can't figure out why the enemy keeps learning their plans, "it has to be one of us!" Except no, it really doesn't.

Any tropes for that?
SolipSchism
09:46:54 AM 25th Jun 2015
Well, there's Red Herring for clues that lead you to the wrong conclusion. You might start there (since the "wrong conclusion" thing is what you're going for).
calmestofdoves
11:39:09 PM 25th Jun 2015
edited by calmestofdoves
So far I think Beneath Suspicion is as close as I've gotten, for a reason that people get left out of what I'm tentatively calling the Arbitrarily Limited Suspect Pool.

Ten Little Murder Victims, Closed Circle, and Locked Room Mystery came up in my searches, and are examples of when it wouldn't really be arbitrary to have a limited suspect pool... assuming, of course, that the suspect has to be a person; I still kind of want to pursue a trope called something like The Mole Was A Bug.

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MarqFJA
Medium:
03:02:48 PM 25th Jun 2015
edited by MarqFJA
Akira is a Harem Genre male protagonist with several girls romantically pursuing him (and maybe one or more guys). He loves his love interests back, and would gladly choose a Marry Them All resolution (or some form of Polyamory) if it was possible. But he admits that he knows very well it's pretty much impossible to Marry Them All, and thus that if he is forced to pick one and be done with it (resorting to No Romantic Resolution is anathema to him), he'd pick this one girl/guy who stuck with him through hell and high water much more than any of the others (who themselves are still bona fide True Companions to him), and whom he ultimately feels a much stronger love for than any of the others.

Is there a trope for this? And while we're on it, if this lucky girl/guy is the first or last member of the harem to be either introduced to us viewers/readers or to have met the character in-universe, would s/he qualify for First Girl Wins / Last Girl Wins?
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DAN004
02:03:12 PM 21st Jun 2015
As for the FGW/LGW thing, it's true.

As for your main question... dunno. It all boils down to "wisely choosing one", right?
MarqFJA
07:39:53 AM 23rd Jun 2015
Yeah, sort of. Of course, he will still feel a lot of distress from the broken hearts he will leave in the wake of his decision, but he rationalizes that it's picking the lesser of two evils in the absence of an actual total-good, because he would feel even worse if he broke the heart of that one Love Interest (or, alteratively, if said Love Interest became forever out of his reach, e.g. via death or being romanced by someone else).
Scorpion451
11:09:32 AM 23rd Jun 2015
Might look at Patient Childhood Love Interest and Childhood Friend Romance for when they're the harem member whom he/she never even thought of as anything but their long-time friend. Theres also Just Friends for newer friendships. Quite often Everyone Can See It but them.
DAN004
02:21:54 PM 23rd Jun 2015
My own opinion: "wisely choosing one" is what is expected to any harem protagonist that it's when they don't (such as Tenchi Solution) that it becomes noticeable.

But maybe Supporting Harem would fit? (in that the protag is definitely hooked onto one girl but he also gets to try several others?)
MarqFJA
03:02:48 PM 25th Jun 2015
@DAN004: The problem is that most harem protagonists are explicitly only romantically interested in one girl (or two at the most, with one of them at least eventually becoming clearly the more-loved one). It's rare to find one who genuinely loves the other girls back in a more-than-platonic way.

And I think you're looking for Harem Seeker rather than Supporting Harem.

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Multikirby
Medium:
10:14:48 AM 25th Jun 2015
Is there a trope during cheesy endings in which the main cast echoes one or more phrases that were said earlier in the movie to add some sort of cheesy happiness to it?

EARLIER IN THE MOVIE... Being faced with certain disaster. Alice: This is it, isn't it? Bob: Don't give up hope just yet.

AT THE END... Alice and Bob have to say goodbye, and Alice is worried they'll never see each other again. Alice: This is it, isn't it? Bob: Don't give up hope just yet.
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SolipSchism
03:55:21 PM 24th Jun 2015
PPPSSC
05:05:56 PM 24th Jun 2015
More like Meaningful Echo, since there's no irony.
SolipSchism
10:14:48 AM 25th Jun 2015
I don't think so. Meaningful Echo focuses on a phrase being given more meaning; Ironic Echo is about it having a different meaning.

But it could be either, depending on the context.

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TauCeti
Medium:
06:29:49 PM 24th Jun 2015
I'm not sure if we have this one or not. Maybe it should go in YKTTW? I think there is some sort of trope called something like 'Obvious Joke' in which someone makes a joke/pun/Shout-Out that is obvious to the reader/characters in the situation. Even though it's quite obvious they're going to add it in, they still do it. Could be subverted. Could be lampshaded. Help?
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calmestofdoves
05:42:35 PM 24th Jun 2015
edited by calmestofdoves
You mean like when the situation gives a perfect setup for an Incredibly Lame Pun and everyone is going "Don't say it... Don't say it..." and then a character goes ahead and makes it anyway?

I'd call that the comedic variant of You Just Had to Say It, or possibly an in-universe version of Narrating the Obvious.

See also Never Heard That One Before, Captain Obvious, Overused Running Gag, Stock Shticks.
Scorpion451
06:11:18 PM 24th Jun 2015
calmestofdoves
06:29:49 PM 24th Jun 2015
I can hardly believe that I looked through all the tropes I linked above and still didn't see Obligatory Joke linked anywhere. Might need to go back and put it on some of those pages...

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actuallycuchulainn
Medium:
05:38:46 PM 24th Jun 2015
Is there a trope for when a character assumes they've covered every possible outcome, but then the antagonist does something they never expected? Like, the hero takes out weapons X and Y, but then the antagonists points out that they never assumed there would be a weapons Z.
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StarTropes
01:42:37 PM 24th Jun 2015
actuallycuchulainn
05:38:46 PM 24th Jun 2015
Yessss thank you!!

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Lyner
Medium:
05:03:59 PM 24th Jun 2015
What's it called when a character's family and/or friends are utterly, absurdly oblivious to his/her suffering, even when he/she spells it out to them? I've seen this done in several places to varying degrees, but one of the worst would have to be Nyan Koi!. The main character suffers from a rather bad cat allergy, bad enough that minor proximity risks giving him respiratory problems. His family knows about his allergy, but they make absolutely no attempt to try and help him avoid excessive exposure to the family cat Nyamsses. In fact, they send her to wake him in the morning and have her sit at the table with them at every meal, ignoring the risk of getting dander in his food and possibly giving him a severe reaction. If he complains about their apparent attempted homicide, they just complain that Nyamsses is part of the family too and everyone else in the family loves cats. Like I said, I've seen other cases, but this one takes the cake. It's often played as a sort of comedic situation, but said comedy can certainly be a little dark when you stop and think about it.
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JoieDeCombat
07:19:03 PM 23rd Jun 2015
jormis29
08:43:54 PM 23rd Jun 2015
Lyner
05:03:59 PM 24th Jun 2015
No Sympathy sounds like it could be just about right. Only difference is too minor to justify a separate trope: the scenarios I was asking about were cases where the victim is subject to repeated if not continuous misfortune and pain, rather than one really bad day.

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Chabal2
Medium:
12:30:34 PM 24th Jun 2015
edited by Chabal2
What's the trope where instead of Suspiciously Specific Denial, the person being interrogated holds on to the one positive (or not-as-negative) aspect of an incident?

For example, in Kaamelott a raiding force hits the town but pulls back without killing anyone. Arthur keeps questioning Bohort (who was in charge of security) and bit by bit discovers that the guards weren't patrolling because they were gambling with other knights of the Round Table, with Bohort trying to minimize everything by repeating throughout the interrogation that there were no victims (and eventually makes it a Madness Mantra).
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Scorpion451
11:23:24 AM 23rd Jun 2015
The Unapologetic, Argumentum Ad Nauseam, and Selective Obliviousness are at the least very closely related.
Chabal2
05:03:56 PM 23rd Jun 2015
I'm not sure about closely...

For example, a kid bringing a report card with one C+ and all other Fs. If he keeps pointing at to the (barely) passing grade he isn't really apologizing or hoping he can get his parents to get sick of yelling at him, not can he ignore the failing grades.
eroock
07:26:33 PM 23rd Jun 2015
It's not Wild Card Excuse either...
DAN004
09:24:18 PM 23rd Jun 2015
It all boils down to "but hey, at least I did one thing decently".

Wants a Prize for Basic Decency?
Scorpion451
12:30:34 PM 24th Jun 2015
edited by Scorpion451
^^ I think you might be misunderstanding the tropes I suggested, because the report card example would be all three.

  • Argumentum Ad Nauseam: bringing up the C+ over and over again
  • Selective Obliviousness: He thinks passing one class makes the rest go away or willfully is choosing to pretend that it does.
  • The Unapologetic: He isn't willing to apologize or take responsibility, and/or thinks there's nothing for him to apologize for.

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ConnorGorden
Medium:
12:08:56 PM 24th Jun 2015
Hey guys, so I feel like I know the answer to this one already, but I can't remember it. What's the trope for dying on your own terms? A good example would be in the Twilight Zone where a librarian in a tolterian state that has eliminated books is sentenced to death for being obsolete. Ultimately, while he still dies, he is able to do it live on television proving how weak the regime truly is.
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jormis29
11:57:24 PM 23rd Jun 2015
Chabal2
12:51:11 AM 24th Jun 2015
Baconator96
02:06:38 AM 24th Jun 2015
edited by Baconator96
Either the above trope, or perhaps Face Death with Dignity ? I don't agree with Better to Die than Be Killed, seeing as how especially in your example, he's actually executed instead of killing himself to prevent that. Maybe Obi-Wan Moment?
DAN004
03:14:33 AM 24th Jun 2015
What is Obi-Wan Moment anyway?
Baconator96
03:32:37 AM 24th Jun 2015
A character who's been through a lot embraces their death with serenity and dignity.
Scorpion451
12:08:56 PM 24th Jun 2015
edited by Scorpion451
The supertrope is Dying Moment of Awesome; as the recap page puts it, that Twilight Zone episode is all about the librarian's Dying Moment of Awesome and uses a lot of its subtropes.

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GeneralSpecific
Medium:
08:47:38 AM 24th Jun 2015
Do we have a version of Earth All Along that isn't exclusive to earth and covers things like alien planets/dollhouses/snow globes/etc instead? Or perhaps something that's essentially "Character thinks he's in Location A but then discovers that he's actually in Location B"?
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DAN004
03:16:26 AM 24th Jun 2015
Depending on how they thought they're in the Location A in the first place.

Is Artificial Outdoors Display in play?
calmestofdoves
06:01:37 AM 24th Jun 2015
edited by calmestofdoves
Not So Remote (aka Civilization All Along) might work for some of those cases, and if you're lucky, at least one of the related tropes in the description will be close too, like Fauxtastic Voyage or Soundstage All Along.
SolipSchism
08:47:38 AM 24th Jun 2015
It could also at least fall under the more generic Reveal Shot.

Side note, Hey, I didn't know Not So Remote had launched. Neat. :D

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