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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

HamburgerTime The Merry Monarch of Darkness from Dark World, where we do sincerely have cookies Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
#22876: Mar 14th 2014 at 10:13:58 PM

[up] Lost Galaxy is, along with its successor Lightspeed Rescue, one of the few PR series generally regarded as superior to its corresponding Sentai, I'm told.

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#22877: Mar 14th 2014 at 10:15:17 PM

[up]I've heard that. RPM often has that said about it as well, though in that case it's just strange because they took probably the silliest entry of Sentai to date, and made the darkest entry of PR to date.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#22878: Mar 14th 2014 at 10:18:46 PM

At any rate...for Tales From the Crypt, I restate I think Prince is the only keeper now (OE and I actually watched that episode together. It's directed by Tom Hanks of all people who gives himself an amazing death scene)

Otherwise, any other thoughts on what we need for film, Live Action TV, etc?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#22879: Mar 14th 2014 at 11:20:10 PM

Super Australian Nazi and Mr.Shadow get a [tup]

Shaoken Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#22880: Mar 15th 2014 at 12:12:05 AM

Austrian, not Australian. One is in Europe, the other is where I live.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#22881: Mar 15th 2014 at 12:58:31 AM

[up][up][up]No Grunwald?
Anyway, Nazi guy [tup] (P.S. He has a point; what would've happened if Hitler hadn't invaded Russia?).

[nja]BTW, for Nemesis, I propose we just say the title character so as to avoid the titular vs. eponymous debate tongue

edited 15th Mar '14 2:12:07 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#22882: Mar 15th 2014 at 1:07:47 AM

[up][up]Ah yes, my bad. It's late.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#22883: Mar 15th 2014 at 2:14:54 AM

I'll request the Nemesis on the locked pages thread late tonight/tomorrow morning.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#22884: Mar 15th 2014 at 5:33:28 AM

I already requested that Ivan Ooze be cut. Also, could someone do a rewrite on the Mission: Impossible example on the Monster.Live Action TV subpage? Also, here's a writeup for Black Doom. I've never played this game before, so correct me if I'm wrong. Here we go:

edited 15th Mar '14 6:02:02 AM by AustinDR

ZetaRidge Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#22885: Mar 15th 2014 at 5:48:43 AM

YMMV: True Crime: New York City

Complete Monster: Terry. Well, at first he doesn't seem so bad saving Marcus from getting shot, but then he fakes his death, gives the gangs inside information about the cops and embezzle millions of dollars, frames an innocent man, butts Marcus through events that would kill anybody, tries to get Marcus to join him in Mexico, tries to blackmail him to not arrest him, randomly fires at innocent civilians killing them and the whole reason: he saved Marcus so he could use him to kick this plan into action.

I'm not too sure about this one. I doubt Terry meets the heinous standard. TC: NYC is kinda like Grand Theft Auto except you play either like a bad cop or a good cop.

@22896 It's a good write up but it will need an expansion soon though.

edited 15th Mar '14 6:04:03 AM by ZetaRidge

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#22886: Mar 15th 2014 at 5:56:57 AM

Do you know anything about the video game?

ZetaRidge Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#22887: Mar 15th 2014 at 6:00:29 AM

[up] I did watch the walkthroughs and the cutscenes up on youtube. But I have not played the game on my PS 2 yet.

edited 15th Mar '14 6:00:57 AM by ZetaRidge

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#22888: Mar 15th 2014 at 6:01:54 AM

I've played the game, and I've argued against Terry's inclusion before. He's a standard baddie, who, in my eyes, doesn't even cross the Moral Event Horizon given the Asshole Victim nature of the cop he framed.

ZetaRidge Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#22891: Mar 15th 2014 at 7:02:07 AM

From The Fly:

Alan Hines aka Ronald Holmes, industrial spy and Big Bad of Return of the Fly. He betrays Phillipe to steal the teleporter's plans for himself and murders a British agent who tries to stop him. Then he discovers the teleporter can mix and match living things. His most dickishly evil move? When he knocks out Phillipe in a fight, he places the unconscious Phillipe in the teleporter and adds a fly, knowing Phillipe will come out a monster. This backfires on Ronald when the mutated Phillipe tracks him down and kills him.

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AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#22892: Mar 15th 2014 at 7:08:07 AM

Maybe he counts if mixing two living creatures in a teleporter counts as possible torture. Also, a little help on the Black Doom writeup I posted on the last page?

edited 15th Mar '14 7:11:06 AM by AustinDR

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#22893: Mar 15th 2014 at 7:41:02 AM

Have a rewrite for Waingro from Heat. Here's the original entry below...

  • Waingro. Murders a guard in the armored car robbery who he thinks looked at him funny, as well as rapes and kills multiple prostitutes. His final horrid act is to murder Trejo's wife and beat Trejo half to death, but not kill him because that would be a Mercy Kill. This all shows you how much better Neil is, even if Neil's gang becomes a gang of cop-killers after the bank robbery.

Here's my rewrite for him.

  • Waingro is an Ax-Crazy Psycho for Hire hired by criminal Neil McCauley to help in the robbery of an armored truck. When one of the guards "looks at him funny," Waingro murders him, necessitating the deaths of the other two guards to eliminate witnesses, turning a bloodless robbery into a triple homicide. His accomplices, disgusted at Waingro's actions, try to kill him in retribution but Waingro manages to escape. To get revenge on his accomplices for the attempted murder, Waingro approaches money launderer, Roger Van Zant, whose buyer bonds the group stole from the truck, and offers to work for him. Waingro tracks down McCauley crew member, Trejo, holds Trejo's wife hostage, forces Trejo to sellout information on his crew's bank heist, and then leaks that information to the cops. This leads to the shootout with the cops which claims several lives. Waingro then murders Trejo's wife and beats Trejo half to death, but refuses to kill Trejo himself because it's more painful for Trejo to leave him live. Instead, McCauley kills Trejo at the latter's request. Waingro is also a Serial Killer of underage prostitutes, whom he solicits then kills by bashing their skulls in. Neil and his crew may be criminals and killers, but they still have honor and standards. Waingro is just a psychopathic maniac motivated by profit and enjoyment.

edited 15th Mar '14 8:03:45 AM by OccasionalExister

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#22895: Mar 15th 2014 at 8:39:27 AM

Since I have the votes, here's also a write-up for El Patron.

  • El Patrón, the original Matteo Alacrán, from The House Of The Scorpion, the most powerful and evil druglord of them all. El Patrón rules over the country of Opium and punishes anyone who tries to illegally cross his borders by capturing them and implanting computer chips in their brains, turning them into eejits. These eejits are essentially human robots, programmed to do certain tasks all while their thoughts and emotions are repressed by the computer chip. Even El Patrón's security team and certain staff members have been implanted with chips, turning them into high-functioning eejits bound to El Patrón's will. The most common usage of "dumb" eejits is for manual labor in the fields used to create his drugs. Due to the harsh conditions and poor care, they tend to have a low life expectancy, leading to hundreds of thousands of bodies being buried beneath the poppies. El Patrón, like many druglords, keeps himself alive by harvesting organs from clones. Unlike most druglords, however, El Patrón doesn't destroy his clones brains, instead he raises them like they were his own children. He pretends to care about them and their future, lavishing them with gifts, all because he sees them as extensions of himself and views their happy childhoods as stand-ins for the one he never got. When the time comes, he harvests and kills them without hesitation, all to extend his nearly one hundred and fifty-year-old life. El Patrón cares for no one but himself and sees everyone around him as his possessions. The dead siblings he pretends to mourn he only valued, not for who they were, but because they were his. In the end, after his death, he still manages to murder everyone close to him, his entire family, his friends, and most of his staff, by poisoning the wine they drank at his funeral. He also coded the deadly force fields surrounding his country to only be dismissed by his DNA. Meaning that when he died and the country went into lockdown, nobody could leave and no supplies could get in. His ultimate reason for this was to murder his entire country just to have a "fitting tribute" to take with him into the afterlife, just like the kings of old.

Btw, anybody know how to put apostrophes over certain letters? There are a ton that should be in the entry but I have repeatedly tried and failed to put them in their proper place. Damn yahoo answers. EDIT: Nevermind, got it done. Good idea, ACW.

edited 15th Mar '14 9:40:59 AM by OccasionalExister

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#22896: Mar 15th 2014 at 8:53:50 AM

Nice guy. Good writeup (the COUNTRY'S named Opium?).

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#22897: Mar 15th 2014 at 9:18:16 AM

[up]It's set in a verse where druglords literally rule countries, so a lot of the names of countries are simply the names of the drugs they specialize in.

Btw, another possible candidate, this one, strangely enough, is from Grim Fandango. His name is Hector LeMans.

Who is Hector LeMans?

Hector LeMans is the Big Bad of Grim Fandango and is the one responsible for the corruption flooding the Department of Death. Grim Fandango is set in a version of the afterlife inspired by Aztec mythology. Grim Reapers not only collect souls here, but they sell them means of transportation with which to cross the Land of the Dead and head straight to the Ninth Underworld, the Land of Eternal Rest. What mode of transportation they're given depends upon how good a person they were in life as well as how much money they were buried with. The best means of transport is a ticket on the Number Nine, a train that turns the Four Year Journey of the Soul, into four minutes instead and shoots you straight to heaven. Hector, however, is a mobster that's managed to infiltrate the Department of Death through his corrupt underlings.

What has Hector LeMans done?

  • Hector LeMans has stolen hundreds of Number Nine tickets from their intended recipients, the people who were exemplary in life, and counterfeited them. He ten sells these counterfeit tickets to souls who weren't so good in life for loads of cash. However, "one's destiny cannot be bought" and the people who try to use the counterfeit tickets to get into heaven are plunged straight into hell instead. Hector keeps the real tickets for himself, planning on using all of them to buy his way into heaven.
  • Using a hypnotic pearl that causes people to jump overboard on their boat ride to the entrance to the Ninth Underworld, Hector captures the people who he's cheated out of their just rewards, so they can never spill his secrets. He then enslaves them with the intent of forcing him to work as miners for him forever at his Factory at the End of the World
  • He created the method of permanently killing a soul, called sprouting. Here, people are shot with sproutella, a special type of ammunition which causes flowers to grow throughout the skeletal bodies of their victims and kill them forever once fully grown. One of his first victims is Don Copal, a conspirator of his who fails him. The final level, however, shows his body count is higher than even imagined. He's murdered, hundreds, possibly thousands of people, and has built his hideout on top of a mountain of their corpses. He even has a greenhouse made in order to preserve their bodies as trophies.

Is he heinous by the standards of the story?

As the Big Bad, his deeds drive the story and are the worst of any character in the setting. ust so people don't get the wrong idea about the game, while the premise is odd and some of the situations seem absurd, none of that is Played for Laughs by itself. The game is funny, not because of the weirdness of the situations or because the characters don't take anything seriously, it's funny because the characters themselves are funny people, with protagonist Manny being one of the best snarkers in videogames. Despite it's premise, the game is treated seriously as a drama where the bizarre just happens to take place. The setting and the characters aren't Played for Laughs, and LeMans remains a dark presence throughout the entire game with none of his deeds being treated lightly.

Does he have a Freudian Excuse or redeeming qualities?

No. Like he says himself, he's just been a "very bad boy" in life and wants to bribe his way into heaven to cheat himself out of the consequences for his evil deeds.

Does he qualify?

Personally, I say yes. He's got more than enough deeds, he's treated heinously and he's never given any good qualities. He's just a greedy bastard who's ambition caused him to bring eternal death to the innocent of the afterlife and damned his customers to hell forever.

edited 15th Mar '14 9:24:45 AM by OccasionalExister

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#22898: Mar 15th 2014 at 9:32:07 AM

Nevermind.

edited 15th Mar '14 9:36:16 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#22899: Mar 15th 2014 at 9:36:05 AM

I guess for the apostrophes just copy and paste? BTW, for the first sentence: El Patron (the original Matteo Alacran) from House of the Scorpion is the most powerful and evil drug lord of them all.
I'll add that Heat writeup tomorrow morning when I request the addition of Nemesis.

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Irene Siiiiiiiiiiiip from Digital World Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
#22900: Mar 15th 2014 at 11:46:06 AM

@Austin: By the time Shadow The Hedgehog came around, Dr. Robotnik is specific to Gerald name-wise. The name Dr. Eggman is more specifically used. Other than changing that, it should be noted that Black Doom outright manipulated Shadow into trying to destroy the Earth, and help him conquer it. They're only biological by blood, as Gerald "created" Shadow in a giant tube(he's an artificial being, but couldn't do anything till he was given Black Doom's blood). Not that that specifically matters, just pointing out how he's biological. It may be notable for the write-up. Or not. I dunno.

...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.

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