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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#120601: Jun 9th 2018 at 4:48:56 PM

Cut the lines.

Here's what I did for Super Buu when I was asked to truncate him:

  • Super Buu has agency over his actions, unlike his previous forms and simply chooses to be an Omnicidal Maniac. When Piccolo distracts Super Buu to allow Goten and Trunks time to master the fusion technique, Super Buu irritably uses his "Human Extinction Attack" to eradicate the entire population of Earth. Tormenting those not killed by staying in Kami Tower, Super Buu turns Chichi into an egg and smashes it for annoying him and turns everyone else except Gotenks and Piccolo into candy before eating them alive. Absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo, Super Buu beats Gohan to near death while repeating a mockery of Piccolo's teachings to mentally torment him. Absorbing Gohan as well, Super Buu declares he will use his newfound nigh limitless power to enjoy systemically wiping out all life on every planet in the universe he comes across. Becoming enraged by neither being able to overpower nor outsmart Vegetto, Super Buu shrieks in frustration, releasing his power through them and begins warping the space between dimensions, causing them to collapse on each other and threatening the stability of the multiverse. A callous sadist, Super Buu would happily snuff out all sentient life just to spite Vegetto for besting him in combat.

edited 9th Jun '18 6:18:38 PM by 43110

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#120602: Jun 9th 2018 at 4:53:24 PM

[up] Looks good. I already added it to my Word file.

P.S. The WWII duo will go with the rest of the Call of Duty reformatting, which I hope to do along with the Star Trek stuff Tuesday.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#120603: Jun 9th 2018 at 5:32:02 PM

A rewrite for Clanden:

  • Fallout: New Vegas: Clanden is a mercenary and explosives expert working for the Omertas. Though appearing to be a mild-mannered individual, Clanden is in fact a Serial Killer who moonlights as a snuff filmer, constructing chlorine bombs for the Omertas; fully-knowing that his actions would kill people in a "fairly large area in a fairly small timeframe", only if they allow him to videotape himself raping and torturing their prostitutes until they die. When confronted with the evidence of his crimes, Clanden threatens to kill the Courier, claiming to have "nothing to lose", and if blackmailed into leaving New Vegas, Clanden will gadly accept the chance to "find girls to play with somewhere else".

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#120604: Jun 9th 2018 at 6:00:17 PM

Super Buu's character page has an Even Evil Has Loved Ones entry. Should I kill it?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#120605: Jun 9th 2018 at 6:15:06 PM

The Super Buu entry is pretty good, but I'm slightly confused by this one sentence:

"Super Buu turns Chichi into an egg and smashes it for annoying him and everyone else except Gotenks and Piccolo into candy before eating them alive."

That one sentence feels as if it's missing a word.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#120606: Jun 9th 2018 at 6:18:06 PM

I thought it was clear he was poly morphing people... if it confuses you that much though I can put another "turns" in there though.

[down] I... have to disagree about that implication.

edited 9th Jun '18 6:37:07 PM by 43110

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#120607: Jun 9th 2018 at 6:19:03 PM

edited 9th Jun '18 6:48:20 PM by AustinDR

JoeBlitz Call me... Del Noir... Since: Dec, 2016
Call me... Del Noir...
#120608: Jun 10th 2018 at 12:42:50 AM

So, I was scrolling through the Video Games section, and I couldn't help but notice this section regarding Jacqueline Natla of the Tomb Raider franchise...

  • In the first Tomb Raider reboot, Jacqueline Natla is even more cruel then her original counterpart, being the true Big Bad of the rebooted series.
    • Tomb Raider: Anniversary: Originally part of a ruling council in Atlantis, the woman who would take the name Jacqueline Natla led a coup against her fellow rulers, betraying them in order to start the Seventh Age. Defeated by her fellow rulers, she was imprisoned for eternity for her crimes. She was freed by a nuclear test in 1945 and became a corporate tycoon under the name Jacqueline Natla. She asks Lara to help her collect pieces of the Scion, an ancient Atlantean device. She quickly betrays Lara and tries to have her killed intending to use the Scion to create an army of monsters that she will unleash on the world.
    • Tomb Raider: Underworld: After her initial defeat, Natla returns as a prisoner of Amanda Evert, another of Lara's enemies. Natla manipulates both Lara and Amanda for her purposes, pretending to be Amanda's ally and sending a doppelganger of Lare to retrieve some artifacts for Amanda from Lara's manor. The doppelganger kills Lara's friend Alistair and sets the mansion on fire. Wanting revenge, Lara obtains the hammer of Thor and intends to kill Natla with it. However, Natla reveals that only she knows the way to open the portal to Helheim, the dimension where Lara's mom is imprisoned. Lara agrees to work with her, knowing her treacherous nature, but wanting to save her mother. Amanda tries to stop Lara, but Natla has the doppelganger try to kill Amanda, no longer seeing her as useful. Natla opens the portal to Helheim and discovers that her mother is dead. Natla mocks Lara and reveals she personally killed her father. Natla reveals her ultimate plan, to free the Midgrad serpent, which will destroy humanity. Lara seems to kill Natla again, but she is still alive. Though half-dead at this point, Natla is still capable of petty, cruel acts, as she orders the doppelganger to kill Lara and then kill itself.

Not contesting reboot Natla's status as a keeper, she sounds heinous enough. I just believe these two articles should be combined in some way, as they're about the same character within the same continuity. I recall Mary Lou from the Prom Night sequels had two separate articles for each sequel she appeared in, and it looked ugly as all hell. Thoughts?

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#120609: Jun 10th 2018 at 2:04:03 AM

I'll add an extra "turns" for Buu.

[up] You're probably right. Anyone wanna combine and condense?

[down] Yeah, that could probably use expanding.

edited 10th Jun '18 6:52:06 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#120610: Jun 10th 2018 at 6:21:25 AM

Speaking of Tomb Raider, this is the entry for Peter Van Eckhart of Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness and could do with a rewrite.

A few things is that one it's really short and barbeones as well as not the best and second he's potholed as the Big Bad of this game but according to his character page, he's actually The Dragon to the true Big Bad of this game Joachim Karel. Anyone know the work enough to give him a rewrite.

edited 10th Jun '18 6:23:03 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#120611: Jun 10th 2018 at 7:57:11 AM

I found this under Alastair's character page (Supernatural), and have no idea if it's accurate or means anything:

  • Even Evil Has Standards: Evil as he is, it seems that even Alastair may have some sense of integrity about him, keeping to his promise not to torture Dean if Dean continued to torture souls even after the first seal already broke. In "Heaven and Hell", he is openly contemptuous of fellow demon Ruby protecting the angel Anna but still holds a conversation with her. It is only when she reveals shortly after that she (supposedly) wants to betray the people she's sided with against Lilith by handing over the angel whose safety she's been entrusted with, that Alastair gets nasty with the name-calling and takes her captive to torture her half to death, remarking that she's living up to an apparent, not-so-great reputation of being devious and cowardly.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#120612: Jun 10th 2018 at 8:02:22 AM

That's...not really standards. He didn't keep torturing Dean because he wanted to corrupt him into a demon and had him torture souls for fun. The other is FAR from standards.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#120613: Jun 10th 2018 at 8:04:33 AM

So, cut the second part, move the first under Pragmatic Villainy (or just cut the whole thing)?

edited 10th Jun '18 8:12:14 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
dood9780 Half-Demon Dude In A Bizarre World from The Vortex World Since: Mar, 2014
Half-Demon Dude In A Bizarre World
#120614: Jun 10th 2018 at 9:36:48 AM

Soo... I guess I shall leave the write up for Nessiah to Kazuya Prota, mostly because... I have never done an entry before!

"Death's vastness holds no peace. I come at the end of the long road—neither human, nor devil... All bends to my will." -Demifiend.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#120615: Jun 10th 2018 at 10:46:26 AM

Did Nessiah get enough votes? I remember a few people changing there minds after your second post but is it at least five more upvotes than downvotes? There were a lot of abstains.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#120616: Jun 10th 2018 at 10:49:52 AM

I'll go check. Hold on and let me count.

edit: Okay. That was confusing.

So we got 7 [tup] (Not counting the propser), around 4 asbtains and 1 [tdown]

edited 10th Jun '18 10:53:55 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#120617: Jun 10th 2018 at 11:07:13 AM

Huh, only 1 negative? Interesting. But that's definitely enough.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#120618: Jun 10th 2018 at 11:08:40 AM

Yes to Morgana.

Anyway here is my Superboy write ups:

  • Judd Faust from season 1's Bringing Down the House is a famous musician studying for a Masters degree at Schuster University. Although he seems nice at first, he has a lot of sinister hobbies in his spare time. Faust wants to force a amusement park owner to sell to him (simply because he wants something he know he can't have) and to do this he sends his henchman Charles to bomb a base ball game being played at the amusement park. After Superboy foils that scheme, Faust sends Charles to kidnap the park owner, cover him with alcohol and put him in a roller coaster track so that he gets run over. Meanwhile Faust has started to date Lana Lang and one night takes her to see his special collection. Faust takes her to his basement which is filled with ghoulish torture devices and Faust plans to torture Lana on the rack and record the screams for his personal enjoyment, having done this to 3 other women already. Faust is so vile, Superboy briefly considers killing him.
  • Adam Verrell from the season 4 opener A Change of Heart is a respected philanthropist who is beloved by the public of Capitol City for his charitable deeds. Verrell donates a series of TV screens to Capitol City that have uplifting messages on them. However Verrell is secretly a nihilist who believes that humanity is collection of moral degenerates and plans to prove it by destroying Capitol city. The TV screens are actually mind control devices designed to drive people insane. A priest looks at one of Verrell's screens and flies into a rage, pushing 2 strollers with babies in them into traffic. Later at a public event, the a screen causes the mayor to go into a rage and take a gun from a cop and start firing on the crowd. After Superboy disarms the mayor, the screen causes the crowd to riot. Meanwhile Verrell is dating Lana Lang and puts a drug in her wine that makes her appear dead and frames Superboy for her death. Verrell takes Lana to his basement lair and puts her in a cage, threatening to electrocute her if she gets out of line. Verrell then kidnaps a mad scientist named Tommy Puck who was recently released from prison and forces him to increase the power of his mind control machine so that he can affect the entire city at once. Later Verrell wants Puck to further increase the machine's power, so that people will actively try to murder each other.

I think we have covered a lot of the old DC shows, we know that Batman 66 does not have a monster in it and I would assume the same thing about the 50s Superman show, though with that show I heard the first season was darker and more film noir then the later seasons that opted for zany sci fi hi jinks.

Marvel has fewer old shows to judge, the only I can think of is Mutant X and that sounds terrible.

Though if you want look at something really obscure, there were those Superman TV radio plays from the 40s, one serial actually featured Superman fighting a group that was the KKK with the serial numbers filed off.

Also I listened to a Wolverine Podcast from Stitcher and that featured a serial killer, but the serial killer had enough of FE that really do not think he count.

Anyway I guess I am in danger of becoming the guy who looks at really obscure super hero stuff, so I might aim for something different. [lol]

Did we ever cover the TV show Sliders? I assume there had to be an episode where they went to a Nazi controlled alternate reality or something like that.

edited 10th Jun '18 11:19:03 AM by Overlord

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#120619: Jun 10th 2018 at 11:20:36 AM

[up]Well I dont think we discussed Western The Marvel Super Heroes yet. S who knows maybe somone counts, they apparently had Red Skull in it which is always promising.

EDIT: I actually we dont think we discussed sliders but with how many epsiodes and worlds they went to, it might have some good candidates.

edited 10th Jun '18 11:22:04 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I know
#120620: Jun 10th 2018 at 11:27:26 AM

Well I'd like to dig The Crow: Stairway to Heaven in particular that iteration of Top Dollar.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#120621: Jun 10th 2018 at 11:28:42 AM

Overlord, please add to the Drafts in the appropriate spot; I've already set up the tree.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#120622: Jun 10th 2018 at 11:29:36 AM

[up][up][up] I actually have seen a lot of those Marvel episodes in the past, they are more like motion comics then anything else, almost direct adaptions of Silver Age comics, so I do not know if they are unique enough.

Its kinda weird how the second season of Spider-Man 1967 got darker from the second season, which was just Silver Age antics in season 1. The second season started getting back grounds like look they were inspired by LSD and some of the episodes which feature a villain who was an insane movie director who released a killer blob monster on NYC (and no he does not count because he cared about his henchman). I also remember a mad scientist appearing in an episode where he used anti gravity rays to lift NYC up and planned to smash it into the ground if he did not get money to build his own nuclear reactor. I am not saying anyone counts in that show, just that show gets really weird and kinda dark by season 2 (and really cheap by season 3).

edited 10th Jun '18 11:46:50 AM by Overlord

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#120623: Jun 10th 2018 at 11:52:48 AM

[up]Though The darkest spiderman cartoon was Spider-Man: The New Animated Series which featured such beautiful things like decapitations, death by electrocutions, among other stuff. Been awhile since I watched it, wonder if anyone counts.

edited 10th Jun '18 11:53:59 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#120624: Jun 10th 2018 at 11:59:06 AM

[up] I saw that show back in the day and I do not remember any real monsters from that show, I think most of the villains were too generic or had redeeming qualities.

That show was aimed at teens, so it being the darkest makes sense. Season 2 of the 67 show was stilled aimed at kids, but looks like the animators were doing acid at the time and the second season is more sci fi heavy then the first. But I think the peril was upped by season 2, that mad scientist who used anti gravity rays to lift NYC up also used a special form of radiation to take away Spidey's powers and came pretty close to killing him.

edited 10th Jun '18 12:16:40 PM by Overlord

TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#120625: Jun 10th 2018 at 12:19:47 PM

Another Fallout candidate for you all. This time from Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel, a spinoff that has been declared non-canon by Bethesda.

Who is Daisy-May Gomer? Daisy is a sex-addicted psychopath and the only female leader of a Raider alliance plaguing the Midwest. Daisy and her uncle, Jesse, are responsible for coordinating a meeting with other Raiders at their base, Rock Falls, this turned the Raiders into an organized crime group, and a real obstacle for the heroic Brotherhood of Steel. Unlike other Raiders, Daisy is clearly sane, and a capable strategist; A post-apocalyptic dominatrix, her uncle confirms that Daisy always keeps at least one man alive during her Rape, Pillage, and Burn periods, just so she can torture them for a long period of time, focusing on sexual violence.

When confronted by the Warrior, Daisy is amazed to see some "fine looking bucks", and tells him that she might have to "keep one or two of you as personal slaves". It soon becomes apparent by her dialogue that she also likes to hear the sounds of people screaming, especially if they scream her name, and she also enjoys kicking her male prisoners in the genitals. After she is killed, the player can find a male tribal locked in her cell, Nanuk, his dialogue reveals that Daisy has repeatedly mutilated his penis to the point it got infected by a "strange" disease, this would later result in Nanuk soaking his own penis in oil and burning it.

Freudian Excuses? Not insane like others Raiders.

Heinous? Despite her little screen-time, Daisy stands out as the only female Serial Rapist among the Raiders and an irredeemable bitch whose actions are a distubing combination of sexual sadism and a need for control.

Conclusion? Normally i wouldn't see a Raider as a candidate, since they tend to be equally-evil, but her extremely disturbing torture of Nanuk, and what he did to his own body as a result of her actions cemented her as a possible [tup].

edited 10th Jun '18 12:21:01 PM by TheMadCr0w


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