To-do list:
- Move examples of East Asian fox spirits from Kitsune to Asian Fox Spirit, and move examples of fox spirits from other cultures to Fantastic Foxes. Remove any examples that don't fit either.
- Possibly move parts of the old description to Analysis.Asian Fox Spirit.
Original post
I would like to draft a proposal to rename Kitsune to Nine-Tailed Fox (which it is presently a redirect for), Asian Fox Spirit, or something similar if neither of those proposals work.Japan isn't the only country to have myths, legends, and stories featuring multi-tailed fox-spirits, nor is it the country in which multi-tailed fox-spirits originated. And while Japan may have been — and still be — the most-prominent source of Western-imported media featuring fox-spirits over the course of the 20th and 21st centuries, more and more Korean and especially Chinese and Chinese-themed works featuring multi-tailed fox-spirits have been coming out over the last few decades — i.e. Painted Skin, Jiang Ziya, White Snake (2019).
Wick Check
- AFK Arena — Solise, The Floral Wonder — "* Kitsune: She's based on one, being a Fox Folk with nine tails and supernatural abilities even for her own people." — UNCLEAR EXAMPLE
- A New Hope (Danganronpa) — Hora Island — SINKHOLE
- Arknights Nations — Suzuran — "Suzuran and her father are both nine-tailed Vulpos, which obviously point to them being based on the Kitsune." — INSPIRED BY HULI JING note
- Beware of Chicken — Nezan — "* Kitsune: Nezan is one of the Chinese variation, known as a Huli Jing. See Fantastic Foxes for more detail." — EXAMPLE, HULI JING; ZERO CONTEXT
- Buster Keel! — Dakki — "* Kitsune: She's a seven-tailed monster fox whose name and action are based on the infamous huli jing from Fengshen Yanyi." / "* Unusual Eyebrows: Her eyebrows have a peculiar shape, reminding the stylized, spiral-like tuffs of fur drawn on Kitsune in some depictions." — EXAMPLE, HULI JING
- Chinese Mythology — Daji — "* Foul Fox: She is sometimes identified with a malicious fox spirit, and... look at the other tropes attributed to her." — EXAMPLE, HULI JING
- Fushigi Yuugi — Chichiri — "* Kitsune: Chichiri isn't a literal kitsune, but numerous characters remark that his Cool Mask makes him look like one. His celestial powers, mostly based around illusion and shapeshifting, and his trickster-ish personality also line up with kitsune mythology." — MISUSE
- Fuzzy Logic — Musume Uchiha — * Kitsune: The kitsune, in fact. — ZERO CONTEXT EXAMPLEnote
- God Eater Aragami — Kyuubi — * Kitsune: As its name indicates, the Kyuubi takes the appearance of one, except with three tails instead of nine. — EXAMPLE, BUT LITTLE CONTEXT
- Gugure! Kokkuri-san — Kokkuri — Zero Context Example; just a link to Kitsune
- Honkai Impact 3rd – Honkai Beasts and Herrschers — Hellmaru — * Multiple-Tailed Beast: In keeping with its kitsune image, it has 4 tails. — INSPIRED BY; UNCLEAR EXAMPLE
- Honkai Impact 3rd – Other NPCs and Historical Characters Higokumaru''' — "* Kitsune: The in-game description of her mentions that she claims to be a human, but notes the 4 tails and the fox ears, and the fact that she likes inari-age (seasoned tofu skin). The description concludes that "she must be a fox". As ch. 12 and a supplementary comic shows, she didn't always look like this; it's implied that after the power of the 12th Herrscher is turned into the sword Jizo Mitama, her leftover body and original consciousness (i.e Rin) merged with that of the fox beast (which likely was a normal fox), causing her to gain fox features." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Juushinki Pandora — "* Eldritch Abomination: It is an ancient force whose power spurred the process of evolution, making it the source of the B.R.A.I., and is hypothesized by Lon to also be the source of humanity's myths about gods and monsters such as the Monkey King and nine-tailed fox as well. In the penultimate episode, it assembles a makeshift body from the amalgamated corpses of Dark Drive-equipped B.R.A.I., and in the final episode attempts to turn Neo Xianglong itself and all the M.O.E.V. into B.R.A.I." — SINKHOLE; EXAMPLE, HULI JINGnote
- Journey To The West - Demons — Nine Tailed Old Vixen/Juweihuli — "* Kitsune: She is a nine-tailed fox, but she's not particularly powerful or pretty, being an old crone in possession of a magic rope." EXAMPLE, HULI JING
- Journey To The West - Demons — The Spirits of Biqiu Kingdom — "* Kitsune: The White-Faced Vixen is, as the name suggested, a white-faced Hulijing." — EXAMPLE, HULI JING; LACKING CONTEXT
- Characters/Kanokon — Chizuru Minamoto — EXAMPLE, SINKHOLEnote
- Korean Mythology — "Gumiho: Name literally meaning 'nine-tailed fox', they are the Korean version of the Kitsune." — EXAMPLE, KUMIHO
- League Of Legends A — Ahri — "* Kitsune: Although referred to in development as a Gumiho, the Korean equivalent. Hence her vampiric nature. She becomes an actual Kitsune, to the point of being able to shape shift into one, in her Spirit Blossom skin, as the skin-line instead takes inspiration from Japanese folklore for the Ionian Spirit Blossom festival." — INSPIRED BY KUMIHO
- Monster Hunter Fourth Generation Monsters — Mizutsune (Tamamitsune) — "* Kitsune: Its vulpine appearance, its 4GU Gunner headgear describes as smelling of fried tofu, its weapons in Wings of Ruin referencing a man married to a Mizutsune turned into a woman. The list goes on." — NON-EXAMPLE, INSPIRED BY KITSUNE
- Monster Hunter Frontier Monsters — Dyuragaua / Mi Ru — "* Kitsune: They are based on the kitsune of Japanese folklore. Mi Ru takes this further with its ability to change forms." — NON-EXAMPLE, INSPIRED BY KITSUNE
- Naruto - Tailed Beasts — Kurama — "Kitsune: Kurama is a kaiju-sized nine-tailed supernatural fox." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Nura: Rise of the Yokai Clan - Other Yokai Groups — Hagoromo-Gitsune — "* Kitsune: She's a kitsune who survives by possessing the bodies of women. She can manifest fox tails, with the number of tails being equivalent to the number of times she has reincarnated." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Pathfinder Fey — Gumiho — "* Kitsune: Based on the creature of the same name from Korean folklore, gumihos are legendary nine-tailed foxes who, when disguised in humanoid form, use charm and guile to lure prey deep into the forest before revealing their true form, tearing out their victim's throat and feasting on their liver." — EXAMPLE, KUMIHO
- Persona 5: The Phantom Thieves of Hearts — In general — "* Animal Motifs: Akechi, Ann, and Yusuke have bird, cat, and fox Persona masks; Ann and Yusuke's respective Metaverse outfits even have tails attached to them that match their respective animals. This leads to Ann, Yusuke and Akechi have the heist code names Panther, Fox, and Crow, respectively. This also dips into Japanese Mythical Motifs for Akechi and Yusuke, as Akechi's mask is based on a Tengu, a crow based Yōkai known for having red faces and ridiculously long noses, while Yusuke's is a traditional Kitsune style mask." — SINKHOLE
- Raishon — Reika Tsukimori — "%%* Kitsune - Also the assistant of one. " — ZERO CONTEXT EXAMPLE
- Sengoku Youko — Several examples — ZERO CONTEXT EXAMPLE
- Summon Night — Hasaha — "%%* Kitsune" — ZERO CONTEXT EXAMPLE
- That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime — Tempest Citizens — Kumara — "* Kitsune: All the hallmarks of it, with ancient and modern depictions mixed into both her pre and post evolutions." — ZERO CONTEXT EXAMPLE; INSPIRED BY NINE-TAILED FOXES
- Teen Wolf Antagonists — The Nogitsune — "* Kitsune: A particularly evil one." — EXAMPLE, BUT ZERO CONTEXT
- The Game of the Gods — Kitsune — "* Kitsune: Not an example. Her name is kitsune "fox" but she is not a fox." — MISUSE
- The Gamers Alliance Five — 'Inari Okami — "* Kitsune: She's one of the mythic shapeshifting foxes." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE; LACKING CONTEXT
- The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet — Yayoi — No example given, just a link to the page in her bio saying she's similar to one. — NON-EXAMPLE
- The Vampire Diaries Book Characters — Shinichi — "* Kitsune: This is Shinichi's species, alongside his twin sister, Misao. Their origin is from Japan. Kitsune are described as intelligent beings and as possessing magical abilites that increase with their age and wisdom, every 100 years they get a tail, becoming more powerful, and when they reach nine tails (Kyuubi no Kitsune), they become demi-gods, reaching the omniscience, and almost the omnipotency. Foremost among these is the ability to assume a human form. While some folktales speak of kitsune employing this ability to trick others as foxes in folklore often do other stories portray them as faithful guardians, friends, lovers and wives. The folklore says they are afraid of dogs, running away every time they see one." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Touhou Kaeidzuka ~ Phantasmagoria of Flower View — Aya Shameimaru — "* Everybody Hates Mathematics: She shows in Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red that, while Ran Yakumo may enjoy doing math in her spare time, not everyone in Gensokyo shares her enthusiasm for the subject." — SINKHOLE
- Touken Ranbu — Konnosuke — "* Kitsune " — ZERO CONTEXT EXAMPLE
- Uma Musume — Inari One — "* Kitsune: Her name and motif are both based on the mythical Fox Youkai. (Makes sense, given the "Inari" present right there in her name)" — INSPIRED BY KITSUNE
- Warriors Orochi — Tamamo — "* Kitsune: As in the legend, Tamamo is a fox spirit. Her real form, Kyūbi, is the famed nine-tailed fox." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Warriors Orochi — Da Ji — "* Red Right Hand: Her feet are actually paws, fitting the legend that a kitsune cannot completely conceal her foxy nature." — ZERO CONTEXT; EXAMPLE, HULI JING note
- We Are Our Avatars — Mara Bjornsen — "* Kitsune: Has nine tails (normally physiologically hidden), power over flame, and can shapeshift into a fox. " — UNCLEAR EXAMPLE
- Werewolf: The Apocalypse — Kitsune — "Werefoxes native to east Asia, with powerful magic skills and close ties to Luna. They are the youngest of the Changing Breeds, coming into existence following the War of Rage." — UNCLEAR EXAMPLE
- ×××HOLiC — Kudagitsune / Mugetsu — "* Kitsune: Its true form." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE; ZERO CONTEXT
- Beasts of Burden — "* Kitsune: A kitsune is one of the creatures encountered in Occupied Territory." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE; LACKS CONTEXT
- The Sandman — K — "* Kitsune: The Dream Hunters is a fairly traditional kitsune romance, with Morpheus and other Sandman characters making cameos." — UNCLEAR EXAMPLE, LACKING CONTEXT
- Onmyōji — "Mythology Gag: Seimei often looks faintly vulpine; this is a reference to his mythological background where his mother was a kitsune. Specifically referenced by Hiromasa in-universe; upon first being introduced to each other, Seimei playfully teases Hiromasa about the myth." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Bungo Stray Dogs — "Dazai is frequently likened to a fox, and certain merchandise features him as a Kitsune. Not only are these creatures known for being cunning...but they also can be thwarted by the presence of dogs!" — SINKHOLE
- Anime & Manga — "* Kamisama Kiss has Tomoe, a male Little Bit Beastly Kitsune, posing as Nanami, a female human Ordinary High-School Student, a total of three times so far. The first when she was sick, he covered for her at school. The second time when she was attending the conference, he also covered for her at school. The third, well..." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE
- Bluebeard — "* "The White Road" by Neil Gaiman is a version of the "Mr. Fox" variant, with a twist - Mr. Fox may be innocent, having been framed by a kitsune. (That said, it's very ambiguous if you read the story closely.)" — UNCLEAR EXAMPLE
- Mail Fox Tales — "* Kitsune : Eva, as well as the servants and some of the Inari she meets." — EXAMPLE, KITSUNE; ZERO CONTEXT
- Tale of the Nine Tailed — "* Kitsune: The show revolves around the Korean variation, the gumiho." — EXAMPLE, KUMIHO; LACKS CONTEXT
- Elona — "Kitsune: The fox brother, one of his evolution paths allows him to become a nine-tailed fox brother." — UNCLEAR EXAMPLE
- Tally:
- Huli Jing: 8
- Kumiho: 3
- Kitsune: 11
- Unclear: 7 — overlap with other categories note
- Zero Context: 11 — overlap with other categories note
- Sinkhole: 6 — overlap with other categories note
- Misuse: 3 note
- Inspired By: 6 note
~Macron Notes: Added in the OP's wick check from here
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 17th 2022 at 11:35:18 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To expanding the trope to include "huli jing" and "gumiho", including an expansion of the description to note the differences between the types.
As to foxes from other parts of the world, to the best of my (admittedly non-expert) understanding, the East-Asian "supernatural fox" is sufficiently different to those found elsewhere that I feel that they warrant a separate page.
(And, as noted above, an adjustment to the "Fantastic Foxes" page to account for the expansion.)
As to the name, I'm in favour of "Asian Fox Spirit": it seems to me both fairly clear and sufficiently open regarding the potential numbers of tails.
Hmm... As shapeshifters, I see no reason that a gumiho, kitsune, or huli jing need necessarily take an East-Asian human form.
The question then, to my mind, is that of how one distinguishes such a fox taking a non-East-Asian form from another type of fox taking such a form—or indeed, another type of fox taking an East-Asian form.
I suppose that it would come down to contextual elements: number of tails; connection to East Asia; the use of one of the East-Asian fox-spirit names; etc.
I would say "no", as I have at least one example in mind of a "kitsune" that—as far as I recall—didn't actually shape-shift, instead being essentially a human with a fox-spirit aura. (That being from Teen Wolf.)
My Games & Writing
Oooh, that Teen Wolf one, makes me want to rephrase to:
"A core part of the Asian Fox Spirit is that they can access a human form?"
But, we're talking about basically the Asian Fox Spirit general idea now, so "personality" aspects like Shapeshifting Seducer can just be noted with wicks, it seems?
Edited by Malady on Apr 20th 2022 at 4:42:50 AM
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![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Based on the discussion above, is that a core part of such foxes...?
As to personality aspects, forgive me, I'm confused—how else would they be noted?
My Games & Writing
That was me being confused on how broad we are being.
If we were troping Kitsune + Huli-jing + gumiho only, then I might have advocated for a definition of "fox-themed Shapeshifting Seducer", a.k.a making Shapeshifting Seducer an integral part of the trope (super-trope), instead of a possible component of examples like we are doing, due to what seems to be a broader scope?
Edit: big crazy stretch: Naruto is Kyuubi's human form, Naruto has Sexy jutsu... Kyuubi is Shapeshifting Seducer-ish?
Edited by Malady on Apr 20th 2022 at 6:05:27 AM
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I'm inclined to feel that "Fox-themed Shapeshifting Seducer" is a little too narrow here, even with this being limited to gumiho, kitsune, and huli jing.
Again let me turn to the example of Teen Wolf, where—as far as I recall at least—the main-cast kitsune was not at all a seducer.
Seduction is a common aspect of such foxes, I believe—but I'm not convinced that it's a necessary one.
In fact, going over to Wikipedia, I see of kitsune as lovers this line:
Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Apr 20th 2022 at 7:21:06 PM
My Games & Writing
Mmm. Okay, so yeah, my vote is:
Edited by Malady on Apr 20th 2022 at 10:45:07 AM
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That's not unfair, I think.
Myself, I think that I would want some mention of common personality traits—noting for example that gumiho are more often portrayed as malicious, and so on.
I'm imagining simply a set of bullet-points within the description, one each for gumiho, kitsune, and huli jing.
My Games & Writing
Ala the "common varieties of elves" in Our Elves Are Different.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I've thought about it and I think renaming the trope to just Asian Fox Spirit would be fine, but that we should have the specific names of the various cultures' spirits as redirects if we don't have them already.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
x 3. Good enough. I know in the Trope Talk thread that resulted in this page getting opened someone brought up the issue of possible internal soft-splits for the different varieties. What everyone's thoughts on that? Personally I'd like to see some numbers to confirm if it would be worth it of if its better to keep in reserve for when the page gets larger.
For now, I don't think the page needs to be soft-split. Making note of the differences in the description should suffice for the time being, IMO.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I don't have a strong opinion on whether to soft split. I just think the main trope name shouldn't refer to a specific type of fox spirit but the redirects should.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
I really dislike softsplits, and there are some examples in the wick check that are ambiguous which type they mean.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Since some examples don't reference a specific type of fox spirit, I'm now against a soft split.
I'm against a soft-split, with reinforcing that position.
No soft split. Each example can say which variety of fox spirit is used, but a split assumes everyone knows which one (and when it's ambiguous), and it's going to make example sorting difficult and discourage new examples.
Professional Wick Checker
Asian Fox Spirit. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
a soft-split.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
I think I lean toward the Our Fox Spirits Are Different suggestion to group it together with other tropes about the various portrayals of mythical beings in fiction.
The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I guess Our Fox Spirits Are Different would work since different cultures' fox spirits have differences from each other, but I think Asian Fox Spirit is simpler and less derivative.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Are there even any other cultures with Fox Spirits? Wikipedia implies "no."?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_spirit
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I don't see how that's relevant when the point of this thread is to change the name to something language-neutral, since the trope name comes from a Japanese fox spirit, while the trope covers fox spirits from other countries and not just the kitsune.
Crown Description:
Consensus was to rename Kitsune because it covers Asian fox spirits other than the Japanese kitsune. What should its new name be?
A name I suggested a while ago was Our Fox Spirits Are Different. Someone told me there weren't enough differences between various depictions, but looking at this discussion, there are.