Following the recent changes to Magnum Opus, it only makes sense to take a look at Magnum Opus Dissonance as well. While ZCE isn't much of a problem here, entries are still really arguable, open to multiple forms of interpretation, and - separate from that - nearly a third of them are actually shoehorns.

What Magnum Opus Dissonance tries to be (and why it is ill-defined)

The most noteworthy problem is that, much like Magnum Opus, it doesn't actually have a definition of what a Magnum Opus is.). The TRS thread couldn't reach a consensus on what it means, with the most common interpretations being the largest work, the most popular one and the most critically-acclaimed one.

The intended trope seems to be when an artist intentionally tries to create a Magnum Opus and puts a lot of effort into it, but it doesn't receive the critical acclaim or success they'd hoped for.

But this immediately creates a second problem: how do we quantify "success"? Is it popularity? Notability? Artistic quality? Sales? Innovation? Award nominations? Reviews? These categories don't necessarily overlap. For a Trivia trope, there's a lot of vagueness here.

What it currently is

Right now, Magnum Opus Dissonance is a combination of four tropes, each based on a different interpretation of Magnum Opus or a different kind of dissonance:

• The Failed Magnum Opus: Invoked use, and the closest to the intended trope. A creator puts all of their effort into their as-yet largest and most ambitious work and audiences and critics end up hating it.
• Magnum Opus Dissonance: (opinions in hindsight) in which opinion differs on which work is the best. The band prefers album X whereas fans and/or critics prefer album Y.
• The Unexpected Hit: an artist views one of their projects as So Okay, It's Average (or worse) and they don't put a lot of effort into it. Then it suddenly becomes a big hit.
• Best Known For: when an artist is remembered for something completely different than what they are most proud of, usually in a different genre altogether.

This creates a whole slew of issues:

• The first and (arguably) only "correct" interpretation is the least popular one.
  • Furthermore, calling this Magnum Opus Dissonance (instead of something like Failed Magnum Opus), is also a bit of a misnomer (more on that later).
• The second interpretation is the most common by far (especially in the wicks) and also the most problematic, since everything that was wrong with Magnum Opus just carries over.
• The third and fourth interpretations rarely even contain a Magnum Opus at all. But it can't be Magnum Opus Dissonance unless at least someone calls it a Magnum Opus, so these are just shoehorns.
• And finally, all of these four definitions are used completely interchangeably on top of the many ways you can even determine success.

But first, let's talk about the elephants in the room.

Fans calling out the one true Magnum Opus themselves doesn't seem to work

If the Magnum Opus wicks were any indication, people can't agree on it anyway.

While far less prone to arguing or multiple-entry-syndrome than Magnum/Parvum Opus, I can't help but wonder just how accurate even single, uncontested entries are. This would work much better if only examples were allowed where an artist makes it clear what their intended Magnum Opus was, and work from there. It won't take care of everything, but it's a start. Also ...

Different metrics, different conclusions

Quick, what's Christopher Nolan's Magnum Opus? The Dark Knight? Inception? Interstellar?

What if the creator's favorite work is not something that's obviously obscure and doesn't really come as that big of a surprise (if at all)? Incidentally, Nolan says it's Inception.

This "dissonance" stems solely from the work being decided on a different playing field than a reader might expect. Yet adding this as an entry "any time there is no clear consensus on the Magnum Opus" is not an option, because that's just People Sit On Chairs. People will always argue which album or movie was the best. This in turn changes the definition of Magnum Opus Dissonance to "an artist says album X is their Magnum Opus and some fans agree with it and some don't", which is even more People Sit On Chairs.

So the work probably shouldn't be a popular one either. This would make it [creator has to call out their Magnum Opus] + [it needs to be demonstrably obscure or mediocre].

The term 'Magnum Opus' is used too liberally

Magnum Opus suffered Trope Decay to the point where it simply meant "the best (blank) of this (set)".

• instead of albums, it's common for songs to be called a Magnum Opus
• instead of shows, sometimes seasons or single episodes are called a Magnum Opus (despite Creator's Favorite Episode already existing)
• web videos of 10 to 15 minutes apparently qualify as a Magnum Opus
• fan fics shorter than novellas apparently qualify as a Magnum Opus

Especially in the case of songs this is a problem. Some bands have such a large discography that it's far too unlikely the 'artist favorite' would ever match the 'fan favorite'. Furthermore, bands have a tendency to dislike their most popular songs anyway due to It's Popular, Now It Sucks!: they're just sick and tired of having to perform the same old songs at every gig. Even if "songs as Magnum Opus" wasn't Trope Decay, this could still turn into People Sit On Chairs.

Note how much this section overlaps with "fans shouldn't call out the Magnum Opus themselves".

Breaking down the three other types of Magnum Opus Dissonance

The "Failed Magnum Opus" (an invoked Magnum Opus ends up sucking)

This might need a rename (from Magnum Opus Dissonance) since it's so common for the artist's pet project to turn into a Troubled Production (Executive Meddling, Fatal Method Acting, the budget runs out ...). There's no dissonance if both the director and audience agree afterwards that the work was bad or underwhelming.

The Unexpected Hit (an artist creates a hit by accident) [shoehorn #1]

This one doesn't even have to be a Magnum Opus at all. In fact, fans will argue endlessly whether it is or not. At least they'll agree that the hit is in fact a hit. There's probably a trope here and certainly some fun trivia, but it falls beyond the scope of Magnum Opus Dissonance.

Trope-specific misuse: the work started small, and it's now a Magnum Opus, but that just comes with the territory. See: almost every webcomic, podcast and youtube series ever.

Best Known For (notability as a metric) [shoehorn #2]

In which a work or performance is considered so iconic, it's what people best remember the artist for, regardless of what else they might do afterwards (e.g. William Shatner as Captain Kirk).

Most of the time, the Magnum Opus isn't even named, just sort of implied. This trope is easily the most subject to YMMV, Opinion Myopia and overall vagueness ("this writer is best known for his comedies instead of his serious works"). Aside from "apples and oranges" comparisons if the other genre is just too off-beat, I also don't think sheer notability is a good metric to judge a Magnum Opus.

Again: fun bits of trivia, but very vague and the trope already borrows heavily from Tough Act to Follow, First Installment Wins, Creator's Oddball, Playing Against Type, He Also Did, New Sound Album, Creator Backlash, Genre Adultery and The Unexpected Hit (i.e. any time someone churns out something quick in a 'commercial' genre and it becomes an immense success that overshadows their entire career).

Trope-specific misuse: the Magnum Opus is decided by views. Some fan fiction authors and especially youtube personalities simply use exposure as a metric.

Misuse & Wicks

Magnum Opus doesn't necessarily need a strict definition, but it would certainly benefit from figuring out the things it isn't. There is very little obvious misuse, but that's mostly because it hasn't been decided yet what the proper use is.

Entries can roughly (I cannot emphasize this enough) be jammed into the following categories:

Wicks: 221

• Failed Magnum Opus: 25
  • Magnum Opus stated or obviously intended by artist: 21
  • Magnum Opus not stated by artist: 4
• Magnum Opus Dissonance: 92
  • Magnum Opus stated or obviously indicated by artist: 52
  • Magnum Opus not stated by artist: 40
• The Unexpected Hit: 28
• Best Known For: 29
• Too vague to call / apples and oranges comparisons: 17
• Non-examples (analysis, indexes, laconics, playing with, trope distinctions ...): 30

Main page examples: 206

• Failed Magnum Opus: 35
  • Magnum Opus stated or obviously intended by artist: 28
  • Magnum Opus not stated by artist: 7
• Magnum Opus Dissonance: 74
  • Magnum Opus stated or obviously indicated by artist: 44
  • Magnum Opus not stated by artist: 30
• The Unexpected Hit: 36
• Best Known For: 40
• Too vague to call / apples and oranges comparisons: 21

(examples that could be put in multiple categories were always filed to the higher-ranked category) This just details the sorting, not if the examples themselves fall under correct use.

Possible solutions

• Allow Failed Magnum Opus examples only. This seems to be the intended trope. The rest is misuse.
• Allow Failed Magnum Opus, but also allow Magnum Opus Dissonance examples. The latter interpretation is close to thrice as popular as the intended one and fills a relevant niche. The rest is misuse.
  • (they can exist as two different tropes, or as a single trope with subtypes)
• IUEO: drastic, but it means not having to bother with the vagueness of determining a Magnum Opus and then gauging its success. nor having to apply any restrictions (see below).
• Only clean out the worst misuse. While messy, the trope isn't a disaster to the extent of Parvum/Magnum Opus, and even the shoehorned examples make for an interesting read.

Possible restrictions:

Any number of the following restrictions can be applied to help clean up the example section:

• fans can no longer call out the Magnum Opus themselves
• it needs to be obvious (or outright stated) what the artist intended as their Magnum Opus - no guesswork.
• it needs to be demonstrably obscure, mediocre or massively outclassed by something else, not "from a certain point of view, this popular work isn't the obvious choice".
• the following are considered Trope Decay:
  • songs, seasons and episodes as Magnum Opus
  • characters (instead of character series) as Magnum Opus
  • awards as an indication of Magnum Opus (or lack of awards as the opposite)
  • anything that bases its Magnum Opus on views
• (... or any other suggestion you can think of)

Misused examples can be cut, moved elsewhere or put into a YKKTW, for those interested. Some of it seems worth keeping.

edited 16th Feb '16 5:51:49 AM by Freshmeat

Impressive work on the first post. Opening.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

I'd say split it into two tropes (Failed Magnum Opus & Unexpected Hit) and cut everything that doesn't fit into either.

Peace is the only battle worth waging.

"Unexpected Hit" sounds too similar to Sleeper Hit, at least in name. Perhaps "Throwaway Hit" would be closer to the intended trope here.

Black Sheep Hit is another related trope, but its description and examples are worded in terms of musical genres, and doesn't technically require that the creator dislikes the song (which in many cases can be very difficult to verify).

edited 21st Feb '16 1:50:12 PM by Prfnoff

I didn't know we had Sleeper Hit. Let's move Unexpected Hit examples there & make a new trope for Failed Magnum Opus (which I'd rename Failed Masterpiece, but that's just me).

edited 22nd Feb '16 5:39:49 AM by Spinosegnosaurus77

Peace is the only battle worth waging.

That seems like a very premature recommendation probably based on a misunderstanding. Sleeper Hit measures the meager commercial prospects and actual commercial success of works in isolation from each other, whereas many successes listed on Magnum Opus Dissonance are not there because they weren't expected to turn a profit for their creators but because they ended up overshadowing the works their creators did for the art.

To reiterate: "they don't put a lot of effort into it" is not part of the definition of a Sleeper Hit.

edited 22nd Feb '16 6:35:37 AM by Prfnoff

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm stumped.

Peace is the only battle worth waging.

Bump…

Peace is the only battle worth waging.

Decomposing is a good idea.

I say split off Failed Magnum Opus, it does have fairly clear criteria when it happens because of creator quotes and such. I do think it should be careful to stay towards more objective reasoning rather than just audience reactions.

I'm split on whether the dissonance definition is even tropeworthy. It sounds like it happens when audiences can't decide or agree which is the best work from a creator. To me, that's not really meaningful. At worst, this could lead to complaining and unnecessary arguments.

Edit: Fixed Mobile typos.

edited 9th Jun '16 1:50:32 PM by pokedude10

I'd prefer Failed Masterpiece (to avoid confusion, as Magnum Opus itself is IUEO), but I otherwise agree.

edited 10th Jun '16 5:08:11 AM by Spinosegnosaurus77

Peace is the only battle worth waging.

Sigh... This TRS discussion hasn't been active for months now. We better come down to a decision on this trope real soon.

Still no activity on this... I'm now hollering for either a clock being set on this, or possibly a final action or a crowner on this discussion.

Clock expired; closing.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report