Ambiguous Name (new crowner 8/28/13): Owl Be Damned

This trope is supposed to be "owls are scary", but is getting misused on its own page for "any owl in fiction", or for its counterpart The Owl-Knowing One, or for "owl as enemy, regardless of whether it's scary or not". I think the punny name is to blame for that; the page has nothing to do with being damned (scary is hardly the same as damning) and it sounds just like one of those "clever" puns of the "Our X Are Y" and "Everything's X With Y" snowclone families. Wick check below.

Feathered Fiend is a related trope, if not restricted to owls. Some pages paint The Owl-Knowing One and Owl Be Damned as opposite tropes (i.e. good owl / bad owl), but that's incorrect: "wise owl" does not imply he's good, and neither does "scary owl" imply he's evil, and neither are "wise" and "scary" mutually exclusive.

edited 8th Aug '13 1:07:47 PM by Spark9

Wick check, getting every fourth wick from the links page.

Correct (46%): Abels Island Animated Films Avatar: The Last Airbender - Other Characters Aztec Mythology Black Eyes of Evil Clockwork Creature Freckles Horror Of Dracula Labyrinth Lindsey Stirling Lost Tapes Okami Ravens and Crows Rock A Doodle Scary Librarian Stage Fright Aquarius The Adventures Of Milo And Otis The Secret Of NIMH Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot/ Knight Templar/ Would I Lie To You Series 5

Kind-of correct (non-scary owl listed as an aversion or subversion, 6%): I Love To Singa, My Big Fat Gargoyle Wedding, Sket Dance

Misuse for "The Owl-Knowing One" or for "any owl in fiction" (24%): Choujin Sentai Jetman Digimon Tamers Evil Roy Slade Happily Ever After Mix-and-Match Critters Other Internet Small Taxonomy Pools Sparklehorse Succubus Days Tales Of The Magic Land El Goonish Shive

Misuse for "owl as enemy or mook, particularly in a video game, but not a particularly scary one" (24%): Deptford Mice Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze Enemy Scan Feather Flechettes Help Yourself in the Future Katekyo Hitman Reborn Box Animals Kingdom Hearts Square Enix Villains Mega Man X Pokemon Anime Original Series Sheldon The Witcher

No context / meta / direct trope link: Es/Animales, Bride Of Frankenstein, Fairy Tail Tower Of Heaven Arc, Good Animals, Evil Animals, Petting-Zoo People, The Fourth Kind, The Owl-Knowing One, Un-person

Total: 48% misuse.

edited 9th Aug '13 10:02:28 AM by Spark9

That's suffering. I don't think Owl Antagonist is really a trope.

I could see a rename here. The description certainly tries to justify the trope status. I would take more to consider whether it's a separate trope from the others mentioned in the OP.

This is a valid trope. It just needs a tighter description, a misuse clean up, and possibly a rename.

The traditional association between owls and sinister magic, evil or bad omens is pretty well established. This is more specific and distinct from Feathered Fiend.

If anything it is Feathered Fiend, not this trope that needs to have its tropeworthiness questioned, because it is simply a list of all cases of Bad + Bird without any particular argument that there is a tradition of depicting birds as a category as bad because they are birds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owls#Symbolism_and_mythology

edited 9th Aug '13 7:20:06 AM by Catbert

This is clearly a valid trope. I think Mikuru was pointing out that "owl as antagonist" (e.g. in a video game) is not a valid trope; that's one of the misuse categories in the top post.

However, "owls are creepy" or "owls are ominous" or something like that is indeed a trope. I do believe it needs a rename given the amount of misuse we're seeing here.

Okay, looks like we are on the same page then.

The first idea for a name that comes to mind is Ominous Owl.

I'd agree to a rename based on misuse. Seems connected to the name, which is just a pun that doesn't add anything other than a pun.

Ominous Owl is a good replacement name.

(I've always read that word as omnious for some reason...)

edited 9th Aug '13 7:43:00 AM by AnotherDuck

I like Ominous Owl, but I just thought of a few more I thought I'd share in case they struck anyone's fancy:

Foul Owl, Awful Owl, Eerie Owl.

Just throwin' them out there.

I like Ominous Owl best. The alliteration makes it catchy.

I do too. Although Awful Owl has some weird charm to me that I can't put my finger on.

Question: would Ominous Owl solve the issue? That is, if that name is still generic enough (or sounding generic enough) that people use it as a wick for "any owl in fiction" or "owl that is evil", then we haven't solved anything.

I think a tighter description and a cleanup of existing misuse, plus having a few people put it on their watch list, should minimize misuse even without a multi word name that precisely describes the entirety of the trope.

One thing I think we should discuss is whether or not the practice of using the background noise of owl hoots or screeches to create a spooky atmosphere, even when owls do not appear on screen, should count as part of this trope or be a seperate trope.

Personally I would say the trope could be broad enough for the "Owl noises for spookiness" role.

edited 9th Aug '13 9:01:05 AM by Catbert

That was the first thing that comes to mind when I read this trope so I say keep it.

OK, the arguments above have convinced me: Keep this.

That said, Owl Be Damned does not indicate "ominous" any more than "antagonist", and since the trope is being misused for the latter, I would support a rename.

Unfortunately it has 48% misuse, so apparently many tropers have a different idea when they first hear this. I'm happy to hear it works for you, personally, but it evidently doesn't work so well for the wiki at large.

Agreed.

edited 9th Aug '13 9:29:45 AM by Spark9

Let me clarify: I was responding to Catbert's last statement directly, and I should have said "read the trope description". The description specifically says that part of the reason they're creepy is because of their hooting in the dead of night, so invoking that creepiness seems like appropriate use of the trope.

edited 9th Aug '13 9:42:55 AM by Larkmarn

I do think than argument can be made that having an owl be outright evil fits in with the notion that they are a harbinger of evil, and that this evil status is often indicated by having them be the antagonist to the good protaganist.

Main antagonist, yes. Random encounterin a video game, not really.

I liked Foul Owl, although we could go for pun and rhyme and say Fowl Owl. On the other hand, Ominous Owl is clearer and has a nice rhythm to it.

Foul is bad. Fowl is bird.

Yes, that's the joke.

Don't Explain the Joke. :P

But seriously, folks, it's not the first time I've used that particular pun.

edited 9th Aug '13 2:34:06 PM by StarSword

Oh.

I am way too literal. I thought it meant "owl who's a bird" and thought it was supposed to say foul.

I don't think Fowl Owl or Foul Owl is a pun that would work well. To me it seems like the pun would just make people forget what it means.

I don't see why owl hooting wouldn't be included. It's using an owl for spookiness. Visible or audible doesn't really matter.

I don't think an example should consider whether it's an antagonist or not, no matter if it's the main one. If it's a scary kind of antagonist it would fit. If it's a random enemy it could fit if the creepiness is played up.

I'm very negative.