Needs a rename: The Commissioner Gordon

This is not a page about the character Commissioner Gordon. As such, it needs to be renamed. "Superhero Detective Ally" comes to mind.

Doesn't have to be an ally of a superhero, either. But Tropes Are Flexible. Can you get a wick check out of the way? I've noticed that things get a lot more attention if it can be shown that the trope needs something to happen to it.

Before we start throwing out ideas for a name, lets make sure we understand what the trope is about.

"The Reasonable Authority Figure that helps the local Super Hero."

It sounds to me that a Super Hero being involved is a requirement, but being a cop or detective is not a requirement. Some of the examples are mayors or deputy mayors.

edited 11th Feb '12 9:52:52 AM by Catbert

How do you do wick checks? Sorry, I don't use TRS that much.

Also, I wouldn't use the term superhero. Adventurer, crime-fighter or do-gooder might also apply.

Maybe "Hero's Detective Ally"?

Why not? Super Hero is part of the definition.

"Hero's Detective Ally" is Friend on the Force, Cop Boyfriend or other tropes.

edited 11th Feb '12 9:54:52 AM by Catbert

Starting a wick check. Wicks are mostly going to be divided among ones referring to a character role (in other words, correctly using the Wiki Word as a trope) and references to the character the trope is named after (generally, a needless wick).

• Acrobat—Trope
• Bad Cop/Incompetent Cop—Character Reference
• Batgirl—Pothole, Trope
• Dirty Cop—Character Reference
• Precocious Crush—Pothole, Trope
• Unwilling Suspension—Character Reference
• Vigilante Man—Character Reference (even though this trope could have ties to the trope Commissioner Gordon, the term is never used in this context this page)
• The Fowl—Trope
• Characters/TheBigO—Trope
• Taking the Bullet—Character Reference
• Repeating So the Audience Can Hear—Character Reference
• I Am Not My Father—Pothole, Character Reference
• Off on a Technicality— Character Reference
• HilariousInHindsight/Film— Character Reference, although done to contrast with diametrically opposing character roles.
• Epic Tales—Trope
• Dark Victory—Trope
• Mighty Orbots—Trope
• Red Panda Adventures—Trope, although example also uses 'Subverted' as a verbal chaff.
• Plot Immunity—Character Reference
• Inspector Lestrade—Trope, twice appearing on the page.
• Jon Sable Freelance—Trope
• Smash the Symbol—Character Reference, although the context directly concerns to the character's relationship to Batman.
• Reasonable Authority Figure—Trope
• Lightbringer—Trope
• Hopper Shot—Character Reference, although potholed under "Lt. Gordon".
• Characters/Batman—Trope
• Ephebophile—Pothole, Trope
• Evil Power Vacuum—Pothole, Trope
• Freudian Excuse—Character Reference
• Get into Jail Free—Pothole, Trope
• Kitty Norville—Trope
• Twilight Heroes—Trope
• Quotes/Ubermensch—Character Reference
• Verbal Tic—Character Reference
• The Real Remington Steele—Trope
• The Executioner—Pothole, Trope
• Roboteching—Trope
• Selective Obliviousness—Character Reference, although the context directly concerns to the character's relationship to Batman.
• Courageous Cat And Minute Mouse—Trope
• Legion Of Nothing—Trope
• Superman Stays Out of Gotham—Character Reference
• Da Chief—Character Reference, although the context directly concerns to the character's relationship to Batman.
• Bamse—Trope, but shares a line with Friend on the Force
• Trivia/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold—Character Reference
• Distressed Damsel—Pothole, Trope, and the entire example this wick appears under should belong under Distressed Dude.
• Stealth Hi/Bye—Character Reference
• Superhero Prevalence Stages—Trope
• Characters/EagleEyeMysteries—Trope, twice appearing.
• Good Hair, Evil Hair—Character Reference
• Quotes/GollumMadeMeDoIt—Character Reference

Out of 50 wicks...

• 28 are used to refer to a trope.
• 22 are used to refer to the character.
  • 4 I'll say are okay, given context.

Note: I'm not looking very much into whether or not trope uses are correct; many of them are nothing more than a character name, maybe including an official title from a police dept. (Chief, Det., Officer, Lt., Inspector, etc.). However, even when only counting negligible character references, that still leaves us with a definite 36% misuse.

edited 11th Feb '12 11:46:18 AM by SeanMurrayI

Also, one more time: The trope is not just about detectives helping heroes. It is about a Reasonable Authority Figure helping a Super Hero.

Also, Commissioner Gordon was a commissioner, not a detective.

I think Masked Hero is probably a better fit for this trope than Super Hero. Batman isn't a superhero after all. He's a Masked Hero. He lacks super powers.

Grr, I really need to YKTTW that trope.

edited 11th Feb '12 10:03:54 AM by shimaspawn

Because it's being used for anyone with a secret and can't arrest people. Superheroes, vigilantes, and "private investigators" who maintain the masquerade.

Wasn't that Costumed Crimefighter? Edit: nope, it was Costumed Nonsuper Hero

edited 11th Feb '12 10:08:13 AM by crazysamaritan

Ah, yes, those should count too for this trope.

Quoting from Super Hero: "Note that not all Super Heroes are super-powered; Batman is often considered a Super Hero despite having nothing but training, intelligence, willpower, minor gadgetry and the writers on his side; Phantom was in peak physical fitness, had excellent reflexes and was a sharpshooter."

Batman is also listed there. It seems to me that Costumed Nonsuper Hero is essentially a Sub-Trope of Super Hero, not exclusive of it. Also, in common usage, Batman is always called is a superhero.

Anway, focusing on this thread: And new name idea that is limited to police or makes it sound like this includes Friend on the Force is a bad idea.

edited 11th Feb '12 10:23:36 AM by Catbert

The distinction I see between Commissioner Gordon and Friend on the Force is that the guy who has a friend could join the police, but won't. Whereas for Gordon, if they tried joining, they'd probably be arrested (either for insanity, publicly breaking the law, or for government control).

It always includes friend on the force, because that's the supertrope.

edited 11th Feb '12 10:24:28 AM by crazysamaritan

No, Friend on the Force is "a regular police officer whom the private detective happens to be friends with."

Commissioner Gordon is a Reasonable Authority Figure that is an ally to a Super Hero.

Commissioner Gordon is not required to a be a police officer. It could be a mayor, for example. A Friend on the Force is required to be a police officer.

Commissioner Gordon is required to be an ally of a Super Hero. A Friend on the Force is required an ally of a Private Detective or Amateur Sleuth.

Both tropes are subtropes of a Reasonable Authority Figure. They are sister tropes, not parent in child, despite of the mistaken claim otherwise on Friend on the Force.

BTW, I would consider the confusion about the meaning of the trope and its relationship to other tropes to be strong evidence that Commissioner Gordon is broken and needs to be renamed.

However, it should not have a name which conflicts with its definition.

edited 11th Feb '12 10:41:06 AM by Catbert

Friend on the Force describes Bruce Wayne's relationship with Commissioner Gordon. Commissioner Gordon describes Batman's relationship with Gordon.

We have a general bias against character-named tropes, but when we do keep them, isn't the usual naming convention to tack on a "The" to the beginning?

Or in other words, shouldn't it be The Commissioner Gordon and The Inspector Lestrade?

"Friend on the Force describes Bruce Wayne's relationship with Commissioner Gordon."

Not quite. Bruce Wayne doesn't act (under his Bruce Wayne persona) as a private dick. Merely having a cop that is a friend is not Friend on the Force.

edited 11th Feb '12 10:43:37 AM by Catbert

Friend on the Force: "Every Private Detective or Amateur Sleuth needs someone official to actually make the arrest at the end." Goes on to specify that the character can be recurring, or single-episode. Since the sleuth/detective does not have the authority to arrest/charge the criminal, they need a Reasonable Authority Figure to do so.

Commissioner Gordon: again, the superhero does not have the authority to arrest/charge the criminal, they need a Reasonable Authority Figure to do so.

A Commissioner Gordon almost never helps with arrests. Just information more than anything. Most of the things that a masked hero needs information on aren't things that can just be locked up in prison.

Then.... What's the point of linking Reasonable Authority Figure?

Finished wick check Here.

Can't say I'm surprised with the results.

This isn't how you organize a wick report. I'm more concerned about use/misuse than whether or not it is being used to refer to a character who is a legitimate example of the trope.

edited 11th Feb '12 12:00:45 PM by Catbert

If a trope is being linked to when only the name of the character who just happens to be a Trope Namer is relevant, more often than not, the trope itself has nothing to do with whatever is actually being discussed, and that would be a clear sign of misuse; it would be outright confusion for a character page, like The Joker (For instance, Off on a Technicality uses the trope to refer to the character Commissioner Gordon, who is shot by some criminal. The trope is completely irrelevant to being shot by some criminal).

And, as I discovered while checking random wicks for this trope, 36% of them have absolutely nothing to do with referring to a trope and have no real business being there.

edited 11th Feb '12 5:26:35 PM by SeanMurrayI

which is one of about three reasons why character named tropes are bad.

"Not quite. Bruce Wayne doesn't act (under his Bruce Wayne persona) as a private dick."

Actually, he kinda-sorta did, in his earliest appearances. Bruce would hang around with Gordon because he "had an interest in crime stories." Which Gordon apparently tolerated because he was an old friend, and he'd tried to get Bruce to join the police force in the past. (And, y'know, he's a millionaire and all....)

In these early stories, hanging around with Gordon was how Batman got the information he needed.