I'm just sayin'.
The whole "shit happens, demons overrun the world" thing in Bullet Witch wasn't caused by whatever happened in that game
(I haven't played it) but by Bayonetta killing Jubileus and shifting the cosmic power in favor of Inferno
. There may not have been any alternative course of action
Apart from sharing the same genre, and having similar themes, other signs seem to indicate more than a superficial connection. Amongst other things, the demon spider Phantasmaraneae, and the artifact the Bracelet/Bangle of time. This might also explain why no genuinely angelic influences have been seen in a DMC
game, they couldn't care what the demons do, all will be well once their savior Jubileus is revived.
- Should I be disturbed that the flavor text in the Bangle of Time gave more backstory for Eva than Dante himself has ever said?
- Bayonetta's witch status means she'll probably go to hell when she dies... Dante breaks into Hell on a regular basis... maybe there's some potential for a teamup or Rescue Romance there if Bayonetta (or Dante) needs some help getting out...
- There is more. It seems that, in the manual of the first DMC, there is written a testimony, which is similar to how he speaks in Bayonetta. Also, in the manga of Devil May Cry 3, he is portrayed with the same cowardice that he shows in the game.
- Another interesting thing is that one of the girls Luka mentioned to Bayonetta is named "Trish".
- If we use that as evidence that Bayonetta and DMC are in the same universe, then Resident Evil, Viewtiful Joe, and Ōkami all share this universe too.
- Hey, Dante was a Secret Character in the PS2 version of the first Viewtiful Joe, and the spirit of his Alastor sword from the first game is a recurring character in the Viewtiful Joe series, so it's not farfetched by any means. While not necessarily canon, Namco x Capcom and MvC3 run with a similar premise connecting several Capcom series (such as Darkstalkers and Ghosts N Goblins, among others).
- The appearance of Enzo, Dante's manager(?), in Bayonetta supports this theory.
- Luka's father's name is "Antonio Redgrave". Sound familiar? Word of God states that he likes to imagine that the two series really are in the same universe.
Umbra Witches aren't human
Bayonetta sports a physically impossible figure, and far more flexibility and endurance a human body should possess. The answer? It's all hair. Not just the clothes, her entire body is a sentient mass of shape-shifting hair. Evidence indicates as a child, they are 'mostly' normal, so presumably this happens when they make their Deal with the Devil
- Yeah, or all those things you mentioned she can do happens when you make a Deal with the Devil. She's not mortal and a shapeshifting witch, those have benefits.
- By extension, Lumen Sages are also not human. Judging by Balder's outfit, they're peacock spirits possessing human bodies.
As long as Bayonetta receives at least one well-received sequel, a crossover game with Devil May Cry
And it will be the most awesome game ever.
- Not until the true crossover happens, when they bring in the third and final piece, a three-way crossover with God Hand. Dante as the half human/half demon, Bayonetta as the human witch who bears darkness and light, and Gene, wielding the power of God in his arms. Truly, the best crossover in history.
- No, the true best crossover in history is both the above two series, plus Asura's Wrath. THEN you have the best crossover ever.
This game was a Take That
against Capcom Production Studio 1 by Kamiya.
Itsuno and CPS1 were handed the sequel to Devil May Cry before Kamiya had the chance to know what was going on... Which is strange, because before Devil May Cry
was released Kamiya was responsible for making Resident Evil 2
, which is widely considered the best game in the series back when the games had fixed camera views and no Ganados or Plagas virus.
After the third and fourth games in the Devil May Cry
series failed to really innovate or evolve, Kamiya was finally motivated enough to gather his faithful team, lay down the design document, and say "This. This is how Devil May Cry should have evolved. My will be done."
And thus another Kamiya Classic was born, and Capcom executives have no doubt been wondering why the fuck they allowed Kamiya, Mikami, and Inaba to leave instead of offering them as much booze and hookers as Roppongi could offer.
- An addition must be made here. I quote from the director himself according to this Q&A session, "I did not play DMC1 not even once while developing Bayonetta (I have played about half of DMC4 as part of my research study though). I have deliberately created Bayonetta from scratch and tried to make the game as original as possible". There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. After playing only half of the latest installment in his
stolen formerly owned series, he gathered his faithful team, laid out the plans, and said the above.
Related to the above... While Kamiya's name is more well-known than the average director's, he's not a household name. Yet. But he will be, along with the other directors.
Bayonetta is going to get a sequel which somehow increases the HSQ
in the series, and Platinum Games is going to go on to become a studio which produces nothing but hits. Kamiya, Mikami, and Inaba, already a cause for fandom rejoicing, are going to quickly become well known like Hideo Kojima
or Shigeru Miyamoto
EVERY human in Vigrid is a potential angel incubator.
When Bayonetta fights angels in Vigrid, all the outlines of humans disappear
. And we see in the beginning that priests apparently sacrifice themselves to make angels. When someone is taken in to the Laguna faith, they have a spell placed upon them that harnesses their soul to create more angels.
- You're forgetting that humans can see and hear the results of Bayonetta fighting. If Bayonetta starts breaking stuff while outside of a fight, then humans will just run away. Combine that with the fact that we see the angels enter from Paradiso, and that we know that the angels exist independently of humans, there's no evidence that the bog standard angels are made from humans. That said, there are an awful lot of tubes of red stuff around the area where they're building the new Jubileus....
- Those tubes are actually vessels for the bodies of long-dead Umbra Witches. The Ithavoll Group uses the witches' magic to power many of their creations easily. Pretty twisted.
Bayonetta's conception was The Plan
on part of BOTH of her parents, though her birth was never planned.
This is a bit of a long and very spoiler-y one, so stick with me here. - Ms Devin 92
Balder states that, for Bayonetta to become the Left Eye, she had to "see the world through the eyes of an innocent", which is why he had her encounter her younger self. But because of the Stable Time Loop, all Bayonetta's memories of her mother are actually her future personality. And the Eyes of the World were never stones at all; rather, they were people. The fact that one Eye belonged to each faction probably means that their power somehow manifested in the members of the different clans, but taking into account Balder's exposition, it seems more likely that for each Eye to regain power, there had to be a unity of light, dark, and human — like the unity Jubileus is supposed to signify.
And now that Bayonetta's killed so many angels and destroyed Jubileus? There's probably nothing to stop Inferno from becoming more active and trying to take over.
- Therefore, I put forth that Balder and Bayonetta's mother having relations with each other signified a unification of both sides in each of them. This made Balder capable of becoming the Right Eye of the World, and Bayonetta's mother able to become the Left. They were only exposed when the latter became pregnant and Bayonetta was born. While Balder's plan was to use his influence to bring back Jubileus, Bayonetta's mother was planning to use her alignment to wipe out the enemies of Queen Sheba, Inferno's ruler.
- Because Sheba was formed from the darkness Jubileus left behind after Armageddon, Inferno works by occupying power vacuums; if something happened to completely wipe Jubileus out, Sheba gets all the remaining paranormal domain. In fact, even if Jubileus was revived, it wouldn't be a complete loss, because Infernal creatures could freely move around in the unified realities. Either way, Bayonetta's mother was planning on fouling up Balder's machinations and restoring the powers of hell instead of the ruler of heaven.
- After Bayonetta was born, Balder was exposed, and so he was exiled and Bayonetta's mother was imprisoned. But now that Bayonetta existed, there were two Umbra Witches capable of being the Left Eye. That's why, even after the witch hunts began, Bayonetta's mother wasn't the only one with the capabilities to both summon and destroy Jubileus. She knew the angels would be coming to secure the Left Eye, so sacrificed herself to ensure Bayonetta would live. She had also let Jeanne learn some of Bayonetta's origins while the girls were growing up, so that they would seal Bayonetta away and keep Inferno's ace player in the game.
Rodin is this universe's equivalent of none other than Lucifer.
Throughout the course of the game, as you know, Rodin does nothing but sell you things and say he's only in this for himself. But as most of us probably know by know, once you give him enough halos in-game, it's revealed that he's actually a fallen angel who wants to get back into Paradiso. A fallen angel, who wants to get back into Heaven...where have I heard this before?
Normally, this would be a really out-there theory considering Bayonetta's fully capable of curb-stomping Father Rodin when he transformed, but as one notation in the main Bayonetta entry adds — he was considered to be so powerful at one time, even Jubileus
Now who does Jubileus, who is basically God, have to fear, besides Bayonetta? How about the traditional enemy of God?
This said, however, it's quite possible that Rodin belongs to a faction of angels who weren't on-board with the whole "purge the universe" thing. It would make sense that this sort of plan is not universally approved-of, since it would necessarily involve the deaths of all the inhabitants of Paradiso, and if some of Inferno's denizens can be relatively benign, as suggested in various flavor documents, it only makes sense for angels to be the same way.
- While Jubileus is listed as a God, she's not necessarily the supreme, only God. She's described as being at the epicenter of the previous destruction of the world/event that split the universe into three realities. Furthermore, the idea of needing to sacrifice thousands of lives to power her artificial husk is at odds with the traditional idea of an omnipotent God. Furthermore, the ability of Queen Sheba to so effortlessly kill her suggests that there are entities more powerful than her (unless Queen Sheba is her Dark half, but even so...) She seems to be a god, and presumably mistress of the angels, but not the supreme being per se, since Bayonetta kills her with relative ease.
- The reason that Queen Sheba was able to finish off Jubileus so easily was that Bayonetta had already beaten the fight out of her. The fight with Father Balder pretty conclusively showed that the Summons were below Bayonetta in damage dealing and taking, and that they could be easily beaten by someone that was still in a condition where they could fight back.
- The reason that Bayonetta was able to fight back against Jubileus in the first place is probably because Bayonetta, The Left Eye of the World, was pulled out before Jubileus awoke, leaving Jubileus at somewhere below full power.
This is supported by his line: "You really
want to make a deal with the Devil?"
Both have Angels as enemies, an Ancient Conspiracy
, and Fly Me to the Moon
as a recurring theme (there's probably other similarities, but I'm not familiar with the series). Bayonetta herself also looks like a grown-up version of Mari Illustrious Makinami.
Alternatively, Bayonetta is Shinji's
perspective of his life as he nearly goes through and ultimately rejects Human Instrumentality, put through the lens of Jungian psychology and major amounts of camp.
- Bayonetta: Shinji's envisionment of the Eva units and the maternal figures in his life like Misatao and Rei. Extremely strong and sexual dominant females who can defeat any Angel, and with a force of personality/will he secretly wishes he could have. And the one who forcibly rejected Gendo's plans for their own.
- Jeanne: Shinji's view of his closest friends Asuka and Kaworu as partial rivals and aggressive love interests, who he wants to be close to but ultimately can't due to irreconcilable differences.
- Luka: A partial wish fulfillment of Shinji's normal personality, as a bumbling wannabe ladies man who nevertheless tries to keep up with the insane antics of the women in his life, and succeeding to a degree.
- Cereza: How Shinji sees himself and the other Eva children outside of their Evas. Small, weak, constantly in harm's way, yet capable of seeing and dealing with things no ordinary person should ever have to, and looks to their Eva units for strength and protection from the forces of Heaven. And a tool in Gendo's world-ending scheme.
- Enzo: Shinji's school friends. Helpful in keeping him grounded and knowledgeable for what's going on in the world outside of his constant struggle against the angels, but not much more than that, as he thinks they're too caught up in their own safe world to ever understand his problems.
- Rodin: The personification of Seele as a whole and Gendo as an authority figure. Fairly friendly and a good supplier, but someone whose motives he doesn't completely understand, and have numerous skeletons in their closet.
- Father Balder: Shinji's view of Gendo as his father, as a shadowy manipulative dog-kicking monster who would gleefully sacrifice anything, even his own wife and child, in order to get what he wants.
- Jublies: More or less Angel Rei in a nutshell.
- Other Angels: Do I have to say it?
The crazy, over-the-top action, the incredible power, come on, you know what it adds up to. Specifically, she's an Infernal. All of the various Crowning Moments of Awesome in the game are three-die stunts, and the final cutscene implies that she starts taking Heresy charms.
All the Angels Bayonetta fought...
... were rebelling against against the real Lord Almighty. They were unsatisfied with this balance between light and darkness and felt they should rule. Jubileus was their leader and their Creator, but not the creator of all things. Needless to say, after beatdowns from Bayonetta, they went the way of Lucifer... without the power.
- While I'm not a fan of these cheap excuses (if you're so confident with your faith, why do you need to pretend canon gods are false?), I'd like to think of God[dess] in the game as divided between two: Jubileus and Queen Sheba (the demon Bayonetta summoned to kill Jubileus). They were split when Bayonetta was rescued.
- Hilariously this is actually somewhat right; as it turns out, the actual Capital G God of the human world (Aesir) had nothing to do with angels to begin with, humans in general are his domain. Neither does the Lucifer figure (Loptr), although it's arguable he corrupted the angels to serve his agenda.
No character in Bayonetta is supposed to be the equivalent of any public domain figure unless stated otherwise.
This game's protagonist is a witch who made a deal with the devil for power and will be tortured in hell for the rest of existence when she eventually dies. If Sega wanted to avoid controversy by renaming some real religious figures, too late!
Yes, Cleopatra is still a witch, yes Sheba is female in this story, but Jubileus is not God and Rodin is not the Devil. In addition to qualities that conflict with scripture's take on God, Jubileus is classified as an angel. Rodin speaks of the Devil in third person several times, as if he is someone else and "he" probably isn't a giant lady either. Inferno is not the hell Jesus warned of and Paradiso is not his heaven, they are the result of Jubileus breaking the world into three pieces during a fight, as stated several times in the game. This applies to Devil May Cry too. Mudus is not the Devil, Mundus is just a big ambitious demon named Mundus.
- Confirmed, sort of. There are lots of possible "god" and "devil" figures as it turns out.
But that may mean Balder is Balder.
Bayonetta borrows as much from political medieval writings
and Norse Mythology
as it does from The Bible
. Now, Norse gods were hard to kill but still died. Balder's death signaled the end of the world, but his rebirth signaled the start of a new one. Balder wasn't always a nice guy either, until later medieval writers turned him into a Christ figure because he represented light. If he isn't Balder, the game's plot lucked into some symbolism.
- Incidentally, Balder started out as a nice guy, in this story, according to the sequel.
Both characters in appearance are visually based on Hindu gods, so it makes sense that they are related. Both also share the Title of Creator. Chakravatin
is obviously the stronger of the two and likely only rivaled by Queen Sheba herself (and Asura
The Left Eye and Right Eye are titles passed down from person-to-person throughout the clans, with the powers included.
Most likely the stone that Bayonetta has and the alleged Right Eye gem act more like power amplifiers, that its respective Eye must have come into contact with.
Also in the case of the Umbra Witch Clan and how they handle who gets to be the clan leader, it would make sense for the victor of the fight to also gain the right to become the Left Eye, explaining why Bayonetta possesses "the most beloved of Umbran Treasures".
Jubileus and Sheba are one, the lat}er's power is embodied by the left eye and darkness in this world is plain more powerful.
Like many have stated, there is this possibility that Sheba was born from the darkness purged from Jubileus when the realms split.
I think the reason behind the left eye of the darkness is precisely that, it controls the dark part of creation which rules hell. Bayonetta has both light and dark blood besides being the left eye, that means that she was the main source of power in the resurrection plot.
Balder is weaker than Bayonetta, the light he wields is just the smaller part of the original being whereas humanity's wickedness and the rather deranged world diverted most of the original power to Sheba. If the resurrection was complete with Bayonetta, it's possible that the resulting being would have Jubileus' righteous mind and Sheba's sheer power.
It also makes you think why there was an Armageddon in the first place; maybe the original Jubileus got too corrupt to wield her own power and broke herself apart.
Umbra Witches are the offspring of Witches and human males, Lumen Sages are human females and Sages
Since these respective orders seem to be gender restricted, but (at least in Bayonetta's case) seemingly hereditary, this must be the only option. Witch-born males are human, and Sage-born females are also human.
Namely, to Sega
for a number of mismanagements of P*'s properties and to fans who are protesting its Wii U
The white cloak uses something similar to Witch Time in order to slice up Bayo's bullets. Lumen Sages have a Witch Time-like ability called Lightspeed Dash. Also, white cloak.
In Bayonetta 2, Bayonetta will end up in a boss battle with The Metatron
Makes sense that she would end up fighting the strongest warrior of heaven.
- The strongest warrior in heaven is Michael, Metatron is just the tallest.
Bayonetta actually thinks more of Luka than she lets on.
She always called him Cheshire and he got annoyed at that. Though if you remember Cereza having a makeshift cat that she always carried around, I have come up with two conclusions: a) Bayonetta thinks of Luka as something she can play with, and b) He's someone that she wants to always keep close to her. It might seem a little crazy, but that's what WMGs are for.
The white-cloaked figure from the Bayonetta 2 trailers is Bayo's brother.
Think about it. It's possible that Balder and Rosa
had twins, but chose to only reveal one to their clans; if having one child together meant becoming exiled, the punishment for two would certainly be death. The second child was passed off as the son of another Lumen Sage and his true heritage was never revealed.
This also keeps true if the above WMG about the offspring of Sages and Witches is true; since the male twin was the son of a Lumen Sage, he is also a Lumen Sage.
If this is true, co-op play with both Bayo and her brother might be present in Bayonetta 2 (assuming he makes a Heel-Face Turn
; the second player character could be controlled with the touchscreen game pad.)
A Lumen Sage will be playable in Bayonetta 2.
The one from the trailer? Perhaps. Now that Jeanne is no longer under the sages' mind control and is most certainly on Bayonetta's side, we need a new rival
, and who could fill that role? Why not the mysterious figure from the trailer? And, just like in the first game, he could become a playable character like Jeanne was.
- The inclusion of co-op also definitely opens up the gates for more characters.
Potential for Squid?
We all know that reality is split into 3, Paradiso (Light), Inferno (Dark), and Pirgatorio (Chaos). There are of course Angels and Demons. And the in-game spiel says stuff lives in Purgatorio. So will the really
Eldritch Abominations show up later?
- Honestly, most of the angels are already pretty damn lovecraftian.
- And as it turns out the closest thing to Squid is actually humanity itself, being the mutated children of Aesir; we have free will and the capacity to grow.
The track name for the fights between Bayonetta and the Masked Lumen will be "White and Black" or "White and Blue" or some variation on those.
Keeping with the theme of Jeanne, the first rival, having a track named "Red and Black." The last fight could also be a Dark Reprise
á la "Blood and Darkness" with a corresponding grittier name based on whatever the first track name is.
- So like, "Light & Darkness"? A classic, that one.
In Bayonetta 2, Loki will be a hidden playable character in Tag Climax
, and Rodin will be an unlockable character in single-player.
Rodin is already confirmed for Tag Climax. Why would they make a character with such a radically different play style and only make him appear in a mode that most gamers will ignore?
Multiples of the Auditio and Infernal Demons exist.
It's the best explanation for why Gomorrah and the Cardinal Virtues have made appearances after getting their asses beaten to a pulp. The Virtues are simply rare, high-ranking angels like Gracious and Glorious, and due to their strength and utility, only one is active at a time. Once one kicks the bucket, the next one is brought out to replace it. Gomorrah is also probably not the only one of its species; there are probably a good dozen or so of it running around Inferno.
In other words, Bayonetta didn't kill Fortitudo, she killed a
Fortitudo. Father Balder didn't kill Gomorrah, he killed a
The other explanation is that being summoned through a medium, like an Umbra Witch's hair or a Lumen Sage's feathers, dampens impacts on both ends; making it so that while Gomorrah may not be able to kick ass at the same strength it would down in Inferno, it's also resistant to beatings it receives. If the summoned demon or angel is killed after it's brought out to fight, it simply backs out of the summon and regains consciousness in Paradiso or Inferno, fully alive.