Obi-Wan's Force Ghost mind-controlled Tarkin not to send the TIE fighters out.
Tarkin may have been proud of the Death Star, but he was no idiot. Even he would have seen that turbolasers are hard to aim, imprecise, and generally Cool but Stupid
. TIE fighters would have made sense even to him. Obi-Wan was the culprit for his erratic behavior. He used a Mind Trick to get him to hold back the fighters.
- They did deploy the TIE fighters as soon as they realized that it was simply small manned fighters taking the Death Star.
- Tarkin deployed a few dozen Tie Fighters against the Rebel strike force, a fraction of the station's forces.
- No, that was Vader's personal fighter squadron, which scrambled on the Sith Lord's own authority.
- But by then, Obi-Wan was busy helping Luke aim the torpedo, and was distracted. And, technically, only Vader's squadron attacked the Rebels.
- On top of that, there were unbelievable amount of surface guns firing. You send out a few dozen aircraft that are supposed to protect other parts of the battle station into such a restricted area, you are going to have friendly fire incidents up the yazoo. That means TIE fighters crashing into your battlestation causing more damage and more causalities. Besides, their was a total of three/four rebel ships that survived out of a few dozen? I would say Vader's squad did a bang-up job and would've won if the rogue element, Han Solo and Chewy, hadn't showed up.
Obi-Wan killed Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru.
Obi Wan killed Owen and Beru Lars so Luke would go on the heroic journey with him and the droids. Nobody seems to pick up on this, He blew their house up while Luke was out searching for R2. He had been planning it for years.
- That would imply-Ben is on the dark side? That would make sense. Obi-Wan on the Dark Side would explain that, and why he dragged Luke to Dagobah when he could do more good with the Rebels.
Vader didn't want to kill Obi-Wan.
He seems kind of reluctant, stating that he "should not have come back".
After spending years with the empire, Vader deeply regrets what he has done, and really didn't want to finish Obi-Wan of till he actually asked him to do it.
Vader could have tracked him down soon, as he was aware of his presence, and killed him off soon. Instead, he duels him like a worthy and respected opponent.
- The duel was as much a meeting between a former master and apprentice as it was an actual fight to the death. Vader's "now I am the master" comment is dismissive of Obi-Wan's skills and praises his own, he wasn't unleashing all of his power on Obi-Wan because of any respect he had for him, it was because he had a few choice words for his old master. If you keep it original trilogy, look at Vader fighting Obi-Wan versus him fighting Luke in TESB, this of course does not get into the ultra-Vader we see in the EU. Vader pretty readily strikes down Obi-Wan when he is offered the chance to make a death blow too.
- Darth killed Obi-Wan with a highly telegraphed, easy to block attack. Even he seems somewhat surprised that Obi-Wan was killed by that attack, given that he then steps on the robes that were left behind, almost in confusion as to where the body went. He most likely was planning on killing Obi-Wan, but not until he had gotten his old master to acknowledge the awesomeness that Darth was. Anakin's ego and desire to be the greatest Jedi ever weren't extinguished once he turned to the Dark Side, and that desire likely still burned brightly within him, especially upon coming face-to-face with the only Jedi who he was never able to bear in a fight.
Grand Moff Tarkin was a rebel agent or sympathizer the entire time.
The destruction of Alderaan was a ploy
to ensure the collapse of the Empire by creating dissent.
- Tarkin intentionally lost the Battle of Yavin.
- Tarkin deployed less than a dozen Tie Fighters against the Rebel strike force, a fraction of the station's forces.
- It was actually more than that, and note that out of thirty attacking Rebel fighters, exactly three of them are alive ten minutes after the Imperial fighter counterattack begins... an anonymous Y-wing that apparently hung back from all the action, an X-wing piloted by the single best non-Jedi starfighter pilot to ever live, and an X-wing piloted by Luke Freakin' Skywalker. Releasing sufficient force to overwhelmingly wipe out the attacking enemy, to the point where the only survivors are two nigh-unkillable fighter aces and a shirker, is by no stretch of the imagination 'intentionally holding back'. The only reason the Rebellion won the Battle of Yavin is because the single most powerful Force-Sensitive then alive in the galaxy was there. Oh, and Han Solo, who is the greatest non-Jedi pilot of anything.
- According to the EU Death Star Technical Companion, no. The Death Star carried 7200 TIE Fighters and over 20,000 other combat space fighters. Wedge Antilles himself answers the question in the Companion. Tarkin never ordered any fighters to engage, believing that the turbolaser batteries would be enough to repel the rebels. It was Darth Vader's personal squadron that went out and met them. According to Wedge, "We may have still won the day if all of the TIEs had taken to space, but it sure would have been a lot more crowded over the Death Star." BUT, it's still up to debate and well within this WMG as to whether or not Tarkin held back launching an all-out counterstrike out of typical Imperial arrogance or whether he wanted them to win...
- Launching 7200 interceptors vs. 30 enemy aircraft does nothing except vastly increase your risks of suffering mid-air collisions. Its folly on the same level as engaging an enemy platoon with an entire division... most of your units won't even have a clear shot, due to the other friendly units in front of them. The Rebel casualty figures and how rapidly they mounted up would indicate that Tarkin released a sufficient amount of forces to quickly defeat the Rebel fighter attack. Unfortunately, one of the few Rebel survivors was a psychic superhero capable of single-handedly destroying the Death Star.
- Tarkin leaked the Death Star plans to the Rebellion.
- Alternatively, Tarkin wasn't an agent or a sympathizer; neither would have killed billions of people with as much readiness as he did. Admiral Ozzel (Vader's first victim in The Empire Strikes Back), on the other hand, was rather bumbling for someone of such high rank in The Empire, due to actually being a Rebel agent. He attempted to draw Vader away from the readings from Hoth (despite probably seeing first hand what Vader does to those that disagree with him), and when that failed, he ordered the fleet to come out of lightspeed too close to the system, sacrificing his life in order to give his comrades the chance to escape.
- The bit about Ozzel being a sympathizer is similar to a humorous sequence in one of the X-Wing EU novels, only it's about Captain Needa, who loses the Falcon later in the movie. The commander of a really backwater imperial outpost is a relative of Needa's, and is instructed by his men to tell the story to the New Republic when they show up to capture the post, so they can keep their jobs.
- His absence at Yavin's victory party argues strongly against this. Because in that timeline, it would have gone "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? Well, OK just to be on the safe side..." Remember, Tarkin had a chance to escape the Death Star's destruction that he chose not to take.
- Why would he go to the Rebel victory party on Yavin? That'd have blown his cover. Vader survived, and so did other guys. Ozzel was deep cover, and managed to survive long enough to give the Rebels a hand at Hoth. He died doing so, but that means he was able to remain in high up in the Imperial Navy and covertly give the Rebels a little help here and there at crucial moments. He might not have even been a "plant" of the Rebels, or have ever met with any of the leaders of the Rebellion; he could have simply been an Imperial who came to sympathize with the cause of the enemy and decided to use his position to aid their cause.
- If Tarkin's plan was to destroy a major planet to bolster the rebellion against the Empire, he had to die with the Death Star. He would be killed by the Emperor for failure or by the rebels for blowing up a planet.
- And what exactly would stop him from leaving the Death Star right before its destruction and then quietly retiring on any one of a million planets in the universe? Its not like the Death Star's destruction left behind an identifiable corpse...
- If he was a rebel sympathizer/spy, then the reason he stayed on the Death Star is obviously out of guilt for having having destroyed Alderaan, realizing that he had gone way over the Moral Event Horizon.
- For that matter, if Tarkin wanted to blow up the Death Star, he simply had to go to an engineering console, boot up his superuser access account, and deliberately trash the failsafes on the main reactor controls. And then hop the nearest shuttle out of town before the timer ran out. When you're the guy in charge, sabotage becomes a bit easier.
- Even if he didn't have the technical skills to do this himself, nothing could stop him from just walking a Rebel-programmed R2 droid to his personal command console — or the central reactor controls — and telling it to have fun. "Sir, what are you doing?" "Having this droid do a personal audit of system status for me. Now go away." "... yes sir."
- Tarkin could not engage in any overt acts of sabotage with Vader watching over him.
- Except that in the movie, Tarkin seems to have authority over Vader, not the other way around.
- Vader wasn't on the Death Star until the same day that its construction was finally finished. Tarkin had all the time in the world to set it up.
- Of course, one possibility is that he had several plans working to sabotage the Death Star — all of which would've been more subtle than the above — and the whole get-Rebels-to-blow-it-up thing is simply the one that worked first.
- Whole WMG Jossed big-time by Death Star, which gives us a peek inside Tarkin's head. He loves the Death Star (indeed, his portrayal in the novel occasionally veers into Cargo Ship territory). He turns into a barely-controlled ball of fury whenever someone scratches the paintwork and enters the kind of thought patterns that include the phrase "How dare they" at least every other sentence. His failure at Yavin was partially due to the main gunner's tortured conscience causing him to delay firing as long as possible, partially due to not actually knowing the exhaust port was a viable target, and partially due to his Tarkin Doctrine being a philosophy based primarily on a failure to understand how the Rebels think.
- Michael Reaves and Steve Perry are concealing Tarkinís motives by collaborating in Death Starís publication.
- Michael Reaves and Steve Perry are working for Tarkin, who survived.
- Steve Perry is Grand Moff Tarkin, who co-wrote the Death Star novel as a cover up.
Tarkin destroyed the Death Star
Following on from the above theory about Tarkin being a Rebel sympathiser. Tarkin had worked out how to sabotage the Death Star long before it was completed, and wanted to do so before it destroyed Alderaan. However, the Rebel Alliance needed a great symbolic victory, so they insisted that the Death Star should be taken out in an attack by Rebel forces. This also allowed room for the other great rallying symbol, the destruction of Alderaan. Tarkin didn't like it, but he had to accept the propaganda value. So he helped the Alliance leadership cook up some bogus schematics showing off a 'key vulnerability' which didn't exist - the Empire's engineers just aren't that dumb. Then he timed the destruction of the Death Star to coincide with the attack. The Alliance wasn't planning on any pilots coming back from what was, effectively, a suicide mission; after the explosion they'd just claim one of their fighters must have got through against the odds.
- Thanks to the novel Death Star... no. Spectacular no. His initial reaction (and final reaction) to being told that the Death Star was about to explode is a two-second Villainous Breakdown with the mental Madness Mantra "Inconceivable". (And in this case, it does mean what he thinks it means - Tarkin is literally unable to conceive of his idiot doctrine being wrong or his beloved station being destroyed).
- Thatís what Tarkin wants you to think, just a planned.
- According to Word of George the EU is an expanded "alternate universe". clearly Alternate!Tarkin has the opposite views and personality from Movie!Tarkin, and it's just a mirror universe forced coincidence they end up acting mostly the same way.
"Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances." "Yeah, you're right, sir. Sir? Sir?"
- He's probably on some resort world somewhere, sipping margaritas and attended to by nubile women.
- And he has an unlisted Com-code, to get away from Daala.
- He's due to star in fanfiction any day now.
- His escape pod got caught in the blast, and he's now an amnesiac searching for his identity in The Tarkin Identity
- He's made a new living as a Courscanti rapper, Tar-Pac!
- Considering that as far as this troper recalls Tarkin was giving the firing countdown right before the big boom, he's almost certainly space dust.
- He left a clone or a hologram behind to cover his escape.
- Actually, he was blasted through a space/time wormhole and ended up on Earth sometime in the 19th century. Once there, he decided to resurrect the Tarkin Doctrine, but using a new weapon of terror: a homicidal, artificially-created man.
Captain Antilles was an Imperial agent or sympathizer the entire time.
That's funny. The damage doesn't look as bad from out here
No, and you know why? Antilles shut off the engines himself after some frankly half-hearted blaster exchanges between the Tantive IV
and the star destroyer. Didn't go quite as planned for him though when Vader took the "don't blow Antilles' cover" instruction a tad too far.
- But Captain Antilles was right there in Revenge of the Sith, witnessing Bail, Obi-Wan, and Yoda sow the seeds for the original trilogy. If he were an Imperial spy, the Empire would know where Obi-Wan and Yoda went into hiding and what happened to Anakin's offspring, among other things.
- Captain Antilles is Chaotic Evil.
- He shut down the engines and let his ship be boarded because he's not an idiot and knew that taking on an Imperial Star Destroyer would be suicide. He only wanted to give Leia enough time to smuggle out the Death Star plans, and his plan worked.
- That's what Captain Antilles wants you to think!
- Every Man Has His Price. Besides, having the captain of Bail Organa's personal ship be a mole would explain why the Rebellion had to work so hard in its early years to gain momentum: if the Empire had that kind of a source for information, there would be little they didn't know.
The real reason Alderaan was targeted
In a word: Leia. She was an Imperial Senator, and is confirmed in the Expanded Universe to have met Palpatine. Even as an untrained Force-sensitive, she could tell that he was evil and powerful. Palpatine was trained, and he could tell that Luke was the son of Darth Vader. So, it's not unreasonable to think that he could subconsciously detect how powerful Leia was in the Force.
Vader was getting old by that point and he was in clunky armor, so Palpatine would need a new apprentice. Yes, he had Hands, but none as powerful as a turned Luke or Leia would be. So, he probably subconsciously wanted to turn Leia to the Dark Side. How did he turn Anakin to the Dark Side? By killing his loved ones, including his Morality Pet
, breaking his spirits and instilling hate in him. Turning Leia would be a little more complicated, as she had a strong moral compass in the form of her adoptive father Bail, and people would notice if the Princess of Alderaan went missing.
This is where the part about destroying Alderaan comes in. Leia's spirits would be broken by the destruction of her planet, her loved ones (including her Morality Pet
) would die, she would hate the Empire and especially Palpatine himself for destroying her planet, and he would have an excuse for the Princess of Alderaan going missing (her death in the explosion). Plus, the wound in the Force created from the enormous loss of life could well result in the Dark Side getting stronger.
Unfortunately, it didn't work because Leia's moral compass remained strong
and because her anger at the loss of her planet was righteous, not Dark Sidey
. Her companionship with the Jedi Luke probably didn't hurt either.
An idea from the Robot Names
page. When the Skywalker twins had to be separated, Obi-wan knew he needed to protect both of them. He used the Force to hastily put together an android he named OB-1. However, because he figured Luke wouldn't become necessary for several years, he made the force-android several decades older. Obi-wan followed Leia to Alderaan (since she was going to be the high profile bait) and OB-1 went with Luke. Several years down the line (but not enough for the aged OB-1 to be accurate), Leia gets captured. She hurriedly composes a message to Obi-wan on Alderaan and sends it to the nearest planet Tatooine hoping it will eventually get to Alderaan. R2-D2 ends up with Luke and is taken to OB-1 by mistake. OB-1 isn't lying when he says he's never owned a droid and that Darth Vader killed Luke's father because that's what Obi-wan told him happened. OB-1 decides to train Luke and bring him to Obi-wan, who ends up dying when Alderaan explodes. Later when Darth Vader strikes OB-1, he just vanishes because Obi-wan isn't around to will him together. The force ghost of Obi-wan never tells Luke this because frankly the kid has enough problems to deal without without knowing his mentor was really a some sort of construct.
Obi-Wan planned to die at Vader's blade
Well, not in the sense of talking with Vader about killing him beforehand
, but being a Jedi, he should have known that a blade was coming right him, yet he just stood there and smiled. He knew Vader was waiting to see Obi-wan for several years and decided to let himself get killed by Darth Vader with the direct intention of motivating Luke to join the Rebellion and become a Jedi.
- This is not canon? He lifts his saber out of the way and everything...
- He DID tell Vader he'll "become more powerful than [he] can possible imagine" if he killed him.
- He also saw Luke, Han, and Leia, all by the Falcon. A legion of distracted storm troopers were watching him and Vader. He had the tractor beam disabled (he didn't know that it was all a trap anyway, but still). He also knew about how to become a Force Ghost, a far more useful ally for Luke than a crusty old body. He also knew that Luke wouldn't leave without him if there was a chance of saving him. Throwing the fight was the optimal choice.
Obi-Wan threw the fight just to infuriate Darth Vader
It's something Vader was really looking forward to, what with the dramatic 'we meet again' speech. And what happens? Obi-Wan just lets him win. No grand climactic fight, no revenge for his defeat twenty years ago, no closure. What could be more infuriating?
- Heck, it might be even more infuriating than just beating or killing him.
- And beyond just tweaking Darth Vader, it may have been planned to throw Vader off his game. Just as Planned
Obi-Wan let Vader win to save Luke from Vader.
Obi-Wan originally planned to sneak back to the others without confronting Vader, but Vader intercepted him in the Death Star corridors. His priority then became to distract Vader long enough for the others to return to the Falcon and take off before Vader could sense Luke's presence in the Force (which presumably is already more noticeable than Leia's) - he knew Vader outclassed him in fighting power, but was stalling for time. When the storm trooper guards move to watch the fight the other heroes run to the Falcon, but Luke notices the duel taking place. Obi-Wan knows that Luke is seconds away from shaking off his shock and running to help, which may or may not get him shot by storm troopers but will certainly get him noticed by Vader. He has only one option that will both remove Luke's reason to stay AND shock Vader into distracted surprise for a few more seconds, and that is to allow Vader to strike a killing blow. When Luke STILL doesn't move, Obi-Wan's spirit has to reach out through the Force and command him to run.
Obi-Wan Kenobi and Uncle Owen were clones.
The names Obi-Wan (OB-1) and Owen (O-1) sound suspiciously like serial numbers. Therefore it's possible that they could be two clones produced during the Clone Wars. Obi-Wan may have been either a clone of
a Jedi, or just a clone who became
- Needless to say, this theory has been Jossed into oblivion since The Phantom Menace. But it was reasonably popular once upon a time, and it's worth mentioning.
- Who says that the Obi-Wan in IV is the same one that's in III? The old Obi-Wan died, but they cloned him to carry on the fight. Ditto for Owen.
- Hell, the real Obi-Wan may still be out there.
- The OB-1 and O-1 in Episode IV were subjected to accelerated growing, thus explaining why they appear to be 30 or 40 years older, rather than only 20.
Obi-Wan Kenobi attempted to craft the perfect assassin out of Luke.
In his time of isolation Obi-Wan became warped and slightly insane. As a result his warped mind lead him to plan a path out for Luke that would result in him killing Vader. The first obstacle was getting Luke to let go of his life on Tatooine. This was accomplished by sending an anonymous tip to the imperial stormtroopers of the location of the jawa's who sold the droids to Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru. This cut Luke's ties on Tatooine and solidified his hatred of the empire. Before this he lied to him telling him that Darth Vader killed his father, cementing a hatred for Vader to prevent Luke from opting out of Patricide. The next step of his plan is to train Luke in the force and lightsaber. He knew that at some point he would run afoul of Vader and had a plan for that as well. Lead Vader to fight near where the Falcon was docked so that Luke would see the battle once he and the rest of the party arrived. He then smugly let himself die becoming more powerful than Vader could ever imagine, by empowering Luke the son Vader did not know still lived.
- It's deeper than that. Obi-wan ALSO made sure that the troops who were dispatched to Owen and Beru not only killed them; but didn't leave anyone to intercept Luke. Because if the Stormtroopers really did think the Skywalker Ranch had the droids; the obvious thing would have been to just arrest Owen and Beru and then wait for Luke to come home and arrest him too. They'd know that there was a third member of the ranch because Owen and Beru would have registered all members of the farm with the local municipalities. Then they could torture them for information at their leisure, or at least wait for higher-ups to make that decision. Burning the Ranch to the ground before even getting the droids makes no sense; even with the Empire's Kick the Dog tendencies.
Tantooine is barely under Imperial Control; because of Jabba the Hutt.
Oh, they pay the tithes and Jabba doesn't allow direct rebel organization which is why ultimately the Empire doesn't care. But government corruption and bribes means there's no registry or it's so flawed nobody even checks it; and local law enforcement is more afraid of the Syndicate then the Empire. For example; they do NOT break into locked residences in towns because if whoever owns that home pays their protection money; there's hell to pay. This is why keeping Luke on Vader's home planet was considered acceptable.
- Jawas, however, and small ranches outside of town not under Jabba's protection are fair game and tend to get especially brutalized.
Han never believed in the Force, he always thought the Jedi were full of crap
All of them getting killed didn't help.
- This is canon. Han would have been maybe five at the most when the Jedi were massacred, most people would never meet one (There were only a few thousand Jedi at any one time) and the Empire made a concerted effort to convince everyone that the Jedi never had any real powers. Han does believe this, so does most of the Galaxy.
- Alternatively, Han worshipped Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker as a kid. They were known war heroes (as pointed out in the novelization of RoTS), and Han wished he could be a Jedi like them. After several Jedi were killed, Han's parents told him not to say even word about them in fear of Vader/Palpatine finding out someone still aligned with the Jedi. Han felt betrayed by the Jedi, and started hating them.
- Assuming one counts the EU as canon, Han's an orphan, was raised by pirates/conmen and didn't even know about the Force except for what his Wookiee friend from the ship's kitchen told him, which wasn't much. Again, depends on whether you count the EU, but that series doesn't contradict either set of films, so...
Darth Vader wanted the Death Star plans for betrayal.
He considered the Death Star "Insignificant", he knew the Emperor disagreed and would probably decide to make the place his home. Now, let's say Vader wanted the information in a way that would leave no evidence, as to surprise the Emperor when he decided to strike at the Death Star's weakness, thus killing the Emperor. How to do that? Why, take it off someone who had already stolen it of course. Say it was destroyed. That's why he ordered his men not to destroy any pods that may have held the plans, as well as why he didn't simply blow the Tantive IV to pieces. Plenty of problems with this, but hey, Wild... Mass... Guessing...
"Vader betrayed and murdered your father" was not the original line for that scene.
First off, it makes Obi-Wan kinda look like a lying bastard.
Second, Mark Hamill supposedly asked George what happened
to Luke's father, and was told "Your father and Darth Vader fell into a pit of lava
. Only Vader came out.
" Not only is this a more poetic sounding line, it's also far
more "true" than the one in the film. It was probably changed for clarity reasons, or because it and the line about Luke's similarity to his father scaring Uncle Owen
combined made the big secret far too obvious.
- Except that at this time of writing Vader was not Luke's father. It was just one of the many possible plot-threads that Lucas played with in his head.
- Except that "Darth" was always meant to sound like "dark", in the vein of the old tradition, and "Vader" is the Dutch word for "father". Dark + father. And Anakin was supposed to be the greatest star pilot in the galaxy, and Vader proves the greatest star pilot in the film by far. And he is quite blatantly presented as an unknown man with a mysterious past. Is it just me or has it got to the point now where fans automatically distrust everything Lucas says about his original intentions about anything, no matter how much evidence there is against such accusations? Apparently It's the Principle of the Thing.
- Also, "confronting the father figure" is one of the universal tropes Lucas learned from Joseph Campbell when consulting him for pointers on building a mythology before he began writing the films.
- Sorry, but no. The evidence is in the rough drafts of the first two films, all of which are freely available on the internet. In the original draft of Star Wars, the character "Darth Vader" was just an Imperial general — not a Sith, or even a Force user, but actually much closer to Tarkin — and the main young hero's father (Kane Starkiller, father of Annikin Starkiller) was a separate main character. In the second draft, Darth Vader had become much like in the final film — but Luke's father "the Starkiller" was again a separate main character who was still alive and appeared at the film's climax. No "Vader" = "father" connotation. Not only that, but in the first draft of The Empire Strikes Back Luke's father's Force ghost appears on Dagobah — still as a separate character. It wasn't until the second draft of the second movie that Lucas came up with the idea of having Vader turn out to be Luke's father.
- I keep hearing such things but I see no proof of them and the whole thing is moot anyway. None of the people who go around raving about George Lucas being some sort of compulsive liar understand the least little bit about how the creative process works, and act shocked and appalled that—GASP!—plans change over time and writers sometimes try different ideas or even come up with last minute decisions! The nerve of the man, not always being consistent about what he wants to do over the course of thirty years! Why, it's almost like artists have some sort of creative impulsiveness at times, or even decide to do things on the spur of the moment, and can't be blamed for changing their minds when they had answered to the contrary off the top of their heads and never promised anything (on the rare occasion that they did say any such thing, which in Lucas's case is apparently less often than not)! Funny also how none of these allegations went around much until fans had already become sore with Lucas anyway because of the prequels. If only you saw how utterly different the first drafts of many of your favorite screenplays were from the finished product—sometimes separated only by a few weeks. If it really wasn't the original plan for Darth Vader to be Anakin Skywalker then at the very least, for the many reasons listed above and others, it was a very lucky coincidence.
- As far as I know, people blame Lucas not for changing his mind, but rather for not admitting he did so.
- The proof is out there for those who seek.
- You actually think I'm unfamiliar with that crap?! Let me ask you this: do you know anyone (including yourself, be entirely honest with yourself about it) who believes in this secret history of Star Wars (that's not a propagandic and sensational, tabloid-like title and concept or anything!) who wasn't already extremely sore at Lucas, or who bought into any of it before The Phantom Menace came out? Not to mention how selectively you're responding to one out of so many points I made, which I made absolutely clear before isn't the most important one at all...
- Not unfamiliar, just irrationally stubborn.
- Unless you believe the script drafts are forgeries, then is not a matter of "propaganda", it's the objective truth. If Lucas had meant Vader to be Luke's father in the original Star Wars, why would Luke's father be a separate character in scripts for it and even its sequel? As for your other point, the Troper above isn't discrediting Lucas because of the changes in the plot. He's merely pointing out that such changes were made, which, as you say, is often a part of the creative process.
- If they've kept that line, Obi-Wan's statement in ROTJ would have something like "When he fell into the lava, the good man who was father was destroyed."
- Obi-Wan had been living in hiding for so long - what's to indicate he knew Vader lived through his injuries and burns? He might have thought he was telling a closer truth than he really was because he thought that Luke's father really was dead.
Tarkin doctrine would work
Tarkin doctrine would work if the Death Star survived.
- One rebelling planet destroyed would be always replaced by another until there werenít any planets left in the Empire. Huzzah for a planetless Imperial victory!
- Only under the condition that after thirty destroyed planets there still are idiots who couldnīt see what would happen if they start to rebel. At some point it would have stopped.
Obi-Wan wasn't lying when he said "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise."
We all know about the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy
. But the, we also know that the Clone troopers didn't necessarily attend that academy; they were pretty damn badass
. Obi-Wan went into hiding after the Emperor took over; he may have assumed that the Emperor still used clones, or at least people who were trained well.
- Wow, this is closer to fridge brilliance than WMG!
- Also, the only time we see the stormtroopers really not hitting anything is when they are under orders to allow their targets to escape, i.e. the Death Star and Bespin. On the Tantive IV, they more or less slaughter the Rebel troops, despite the Rebels having set up defenses ahead of time. On Endor, they do rather well until an army of Furbies takes them down by sheer force of numbers.
Obi-Wan was being sarcastic when he said "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise."
Living on Tatooine for 18 or so years, he probably at least heard about Stormtroopers, so while the above WMG is a great one, it's possible that he noticed the wide spread of the burn marks and meant it as snark, "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are THIS precise."
The Empire employs more saboteurs and Rebel sympathizers than those who actually support the Empire.
- The guy who designed the shaft on the Death Star must have realized that shaft needed a cover on it or the Death Star would be blown up (his replacement designer did).
- It is an exhaust port, a cover would defeat it's entire purpose. Clearly it is meant to release some kind of toxic gas from the reactors so that it does not build up inside the Death Star, and as such is likely vital to the Death Star's functionality. It would probably have been smart to design the exhaust port in a way which would prevent a missile from traveling it's length, such as adding a few corners to it's path. That would, however, likely reduce it's efficiency by extending it's length, requiring several exhaust ports instead of just one. Perhaps the decision was made that one well-protected and efficient port was better, so that there would be a single external access to the core, instead of several.
- Perhaps the best thing to have been was to put a grate over it. The designer may not have thought of this since grates are usually meant to keep people from falling in than anything else. Still, though, if exterior maintenance was required, they should have put a grate there since the moon has it's own gravity (unless they used geostationary ship or magnetic boots). Shields and source guns may well have protected the port from space debris, but weapons using plasma or electricity could possibly go through the shield and into the port. It was obvious that none of the designers considered the possibility of the port being found let alone targeted, but it IS placed in an awkward position in which to attack and it is defended by countless guns.
- People always approach the Death Star exhaust vent issue with the mindset that any ordinary Rebel pilot could make it work and was an obvious and gaping design flaw that only an idiot could create. This is shown to be false as Red Leader's (an accomplished pilot himself) shots fail to hit, as well as explicitly said to be next to impossible during the pilot briefing prior to the mission. It was the Rebels' last hope for a reason. The shot was a one-in-a-million, just as Han said, to the point that not even a sophisticated targeting computer (its sole purpose is to make hits like that) could accomplish it. The ONLY reason the shot was made was because one of the pilots had an extreme Force-sensitivity that no one in the Empire, much less the Death Star (or the Rebellion itself for that matter)knew existed and was a participant in that specific mission, not to mention being guided by the ghost of a similarly-powerful Jedi Knight. Keep in mind the Empire just got finished exterminating all known Jedi, recruiting any known potentials for Dark Side Adepts and Emperor's Hands and brainwashing the general public into believing the Force didn't exist or demonizing/discrediting the Jedi Order. The Empire had very good reason to completely discredit the idea of a proton torpedo making its way down the exhaust shaft. It's akin to someone throwing a rock down a vent that somehow blows up a ship like a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier.
- The guy who says, "Hold your fire!" when the gunner is about to blast the escape pod with C-3PO and R2-D2 on-board either sympathized with the Rebellion or didn't like guns because why else would he be instructing someone not to fire? Are bullets that expensive? This guy must have been a sympathizer.
- "Hold your fire. There are no life forms. It must have short circuited."
- "Hold your fire. There are no organic life forms, and there's no such thing as robots, and if they're holding the plans, why would they put them on an escape pod? And besides, no need to waste precious laser!"
- "What, are we paying by the laser?
- "Hold your fire. There are no organic life forms, and even when ships are under violent siege, routine spacepod tests cannot afford to be interrupted and are not suspicious at all."
- "Hold your fire. There might be a passenger on that lifepod, and if we kill them, Vader will kill 'us'."
- Even Darth Vader is suspect. He concocts the plan to allow Leia to escape, knowing full well that Leia knows about the destructive force of the Death Star - and where it's located. Plus, he still doesn't know what she did with the plans. It's possible that she still had them hidden somewhere on her body, even though we know R2 has them. Either Anakin forgot all of his tactical training or he really wants the Rebellion to win.
- Hell, the Force Unleashed even shows us that Darth Vader, in a way, helped FORM the Rebel Alliance!
- What remains of Anakin influenced Vader's sympathies.
Imperial Stormtroopers are more precise than Tusken Raiders.
Jawa Sandcrawlers are essentially skyscrapers wearing thirty foot thick armor on enormous tank treads. If the Sand people attacked, they would have sprayed fire indiscriminately, possibly in order to distract the Jawas from a sand person sneaking onto the sandcrawler unseen in order to shut it down or open it up from inside. Instead, the sandcrawler's outer functions had been completely demolished by high powered blaster fire, far more precisely aimed than a Sand People attack should have been. Questions of accuracy
are irrelevant, all that matters is "only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise."
The Empire is a racist organization.
On the two Death Stars, the only people working are humans, and all of them are white.
- That isn't WMG. The EU and some of the canon source material make it abundantly clear that the Empire considers all nonhuman species inferior. This may also extend to actual human racism, although that's less clear.
- During the Clone Wars, the Clonetroopers had darker skin tone, and at least one of them became a Republic fleet commander.
- They're sexists too, which is why there were very few female Imperial officers.
- Since the Empire are essentially Space Nazis, it's safe to assume that even without the EU, they're still a highly speciesist and sexist organization. Notice that they refer to Chewbacca as a "thing" and the Ewoks as "bear creatures". By contrast, the Rebels have all sorts of different alien races serving with them and their leader is a woman.
The New Jedi Order tampered with historical documents to make it appear that Greedo shot first.
When Han shot Greedo, he didn't realize he was being taped by the cantina's security camera. Years later, someone recovered the tape and tried to use against the Solo family. Han tried to explain that Greedo had cornered him and announced his intentions to kill him, making Han's shot an action of self-defense no matter who actually shot first. But it wasn't good enough. So someone, possibly R2, altered the tape to make it appear that Greedo had shot first.
- Simpler explanation: The reason Greedo shot second is because he reflexively pulled the trigger as he died.
Going around the planet to the rebel base on Yavin 4 WAS the fastest way to destroy it.
The original Death Star's main laser had a long cool-down time, so long that going around for a clear shot at the rebel base itself was the faster option.
Luke wasn't the one who destroyed the Death Star.
It was Batman. And here◊
is the photo to prove it...
Obi-Wan Kenobi had Alzheimer's Disease.
Obi-Wan didn't intentionally deceive Luke about anything, it was from the "certain point of view" of someone with Alzheimer's.
- Obi-Wan didnít remember that Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker were the same person.
- Obi-Wan didnít remember owning any droids.
- He didn't own any droids. Anakin and Padme did. He had an astromech that was assigned to him, and that was it.
- Obi-Wan really thought Stormtroopers were actually that precise.
- This one doesn't actually need dementia to be true, though. Remember, he's been on backwater Tatooine, far from even Tatooine cities, since the Clone Wars, before the Troopers accepted recruits from the general population and were a lot better. He may have simply not known about the drop in quality since his retirement.
The medals were given for destroying the Death Star, not for saving Princess Leia
- That explains why Chewie didn't get one.
- Because Han and Chewie are such Heterosexual Life-Partners, the medal Han received was actually for both of them.
- Chewbacca didn't get a medal because they are made of chocolate, and you mustn't feed chocolate to Wookiees.
- Certainly not after midnight.
- Leia thought Chewie couldn't restrain himself from eating it until the ceremony was over. Racist Skywalker sister!
- Chewie didn't get a medal because it's against his religion.
- Chewie got his medal first, what with being a veteran war hero from Kashykk. It was just hidden under his thick fur.
- That was his tenth award, and instead he got a special war hero ring (and a free sub sandwich). They needed to get it re-sized to fit a wookiee and didn't finish before the ceremony.
The Death Star doesn't work properly on gas giants.
The Death Star's laser sets up a massive chain reaction in the planet's core somehow, causing it to blow up from the inside. This fits the image we see of Alderaan. Since gas giant planets are only solid at the very centre it simply wouldn't work, at least not fast enough. It would destroy the core, but the actual gas would take a very long time to disperse. That was why they had to go around Yavin to blow up the Rebel base.
- Alternately, if the superlaser works like all the other "lasers" in star wars do (that is, some sort of directed plasma or whatever) then perhaps Yavin's gravity well would have effected the beam dispersion if they didn't first clear it. At the very least, I could see the Death Star's gunner as having a reasonable excuse to hold off firing until the last possible moment.
- Another idea? They do work on gas giants, however the backlash isn't worth it. Blowing up a gas giant would create an enormous, radioactive inferno spreading in every direction, which would've wrecked/destroyed the Death Star.
The Emperor put Tarkin in charge to cut Vader down to size.
Palpatine knew that Vader was planning to revolt against him because, well, that's what Sith do.
So he occasionally does something to remind Vader that he is subservient. In the case of New Hope he put Tarkin, who wasn't even a military authority, in temporary command of Vader and the Death Star for this very reason.
The Cantina Band keeps playing the same song because that's all they know of that genre of music, and the crowd will kill them if they play their usual stuff.
- Actually, they only know two songs: they're playing one when Luke walks in and a different one when he and Ben are talking with Han.
- Maybe it's just a really, really long song? Plenty of examples in Terran classical music, especially if you count operas and sequences with similar sounds for each part as a single "song".
The Stormtroopers can't shoot worth a damn because of the lighting
Look at that visor. It's clearly tinted, and meant to work in a well-lit, outdoor area. And indeed, as Obi-Wan notes, they are very precise when working on Tatooine. However, indoors, it becomes much more difficult to see (hence Luke's "I can't see a thing in this helmet!") - which is why they can never hit the heroes during the rescue of Leia.
Obi-Wan let Vader win because he knew the future.
It's established that Jedi can see into the future, at least to some extent. Obi-Wan knew that Vader would kill the Emperor, which of course he did.
He could have killed him on the Death Star, but neither he nor Luke could kill the Emperor. So Vader had to live and that meant he had to die.
Han was lying when he told Luke and Obi Wan that the Falcon made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs
Han had pegged Obi-Wan and Luke to be bumpkins when they hired him, so he decided to pull a random statistic out of his ass to impress or fool them. Eventually he believed his own lie to the point where any Expanded Universe story showing the Falcon's participation in the Kessel Run is just Han's imagination.
- This is supported by the original script, which describes Ben as reacting to Han's "obvious attempt at misinformation". And from the look on Alec Guiness' face in the scene, Ben's skeptical in the final film, too.
Troopers are good shots... on the shooting range. The average stormtrooper is a rookie who doesnít want anyoneís death on his conscience or in his nightmares.
- How many opportunities does your standard grunt get to experience killing first-hand, especially on an Imperial space station or on a one-horse planet like Tatooine? Sure, heíll lay down suppression fire and shoot in the general direction of their targets, but he really just hopes somebody else will actually makes the necessary kill shot. The TIE Fighter pilots are promoted from the ranks of soldiers who have confirmed kills, which is why theyíre able to take down rebel ship with much greater accuracy. Since Jawas arenít human and their faces arenít visible, killing them isnít as traumatic as killing Han Solo might have been.
The Death Star was not destroyed at all!
- First, they never say the torpedo will go right down the exhaust port to the core, they say that it will cause a "chain reaction" which will destroy the station. I'll come back to this in a moment.
- Secondly, the explosion we see is all glowy-energy bits, and no actual fragmenting mass like the second one over Endor. A number of EU and fans have mentioned theories such as material being vaporized and/or thrown into hyperspace by the collapsing hypermatter reactor. While this makes sense for the missing mass of the second Death Star, the first completely disappears in a single fantastic flash centered exactly on the core.
- The theory is this: the rebel engineers who found the fatal exhaust port flaw correctly guessed that it would create a devastating chain-reaction, perhaps by destroying some important power relay or control mechanism. HOWEVER, they couldn't have predicted what would happen if the Death Star had a fully charged super laser just moments from firing. The reason we see the "explosion" we do is because the chain-reaction instead re-routed the super laser's power to the hyperdrive, and the entire Death Star was blasted into an Alternate Galaxy/Universe/Dimension! As to the destination... well, (insert fanfiction here).
The red guy with horns in the Cantina actually was The Devil
Hey, if you really will never find a more Wretched Hive
of scum and villainy, he'd fit right in.