Reviews VideoGame / Final Fantasy XIII

"And even Lightning, who many deem nothing but the stoic 'strong woman' heroine."

No offense, but that wasn't the impression I got from her. She was more like that 'grouchy woman', who took her bad mood out on Snowe and Sazh and never got called out for it. It made it hard for me to care about her.

Aside from that, the only other point I'd disagree with is, it could've benefited from a few simple additions like:

• an explorable world map and villages
• non-linear progression
• and the freedom to choose your own party (which the game doesn't allow until 2/3 of the way through)

Otherwise, it wasn't half bad. I liked the soundtrack.

it could've benefited from a few simple additions like [...]

That's... really pretty major. Like, completely changing how you progress through the game, and, consequentially, the plot

@Hylarn: By "simple" I meant: 'things gamers take for granted' in most jrpg's.

I feel like Lightning did get called out for her bad mood and bad behaviour to others. Her arc was about letting people in more and learning to care about people who weren't herself

"I feel like Lightning did get called out for her bad mood and bad behavior to others."

She did? When? 'cuz I can't recall anyone ever saying anything about it.

By "simple" I meant: 'things gamers take for granted' in most jrpg's

But explorable world maps were fairly uncommon by the time XIII was out, and non-linear progression has never been common in JRPGs

"But explorable world maps were fairly uncommon by the time XIII was out"

True, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a feature gamers usually expect from the genre.

"..and non-linear progression has never been common in JRPGs."

I never said it was common, I said it's something that's taken for granted. Most jrpgs give you the freedom to explore areas in any fashion (at least, the older ones do). Similar to how Zelda and Metroid titles enable you to visit late game areas early. Though what you can do is usually limited, until you return with the necessary items, or upgrades.

That was part of the reason for ''Xenoblade's success, because it was a return to what jrpgs used to be like. The game lets you go wherever you want right from the start and rarely restricts you, except for a few plot specific instances.

By contrast, XIII didn't give you that kind of freedom until you reached Gran Pulse. Which isn't until you're more than halfway through the game.

I never said it was common, I said it's something that's taken for granted

...You don't actually know what "taken for granted" means, do you?

Most jrpgs give you the freedom to explore areas in any fashion (at least, the older ones do)

Some of the very earliest ones gave you the ability to slaughter yourself by accidentally going to the wrong part of the map, but that mostly stopped around the time of the SNES

By contrast, XIII didn't give you that kind of freedom until you reached Gran Pulse. Which isn't until you're more than halfway through the game.

Again, this is pretty normal. Most JRPGs don't give you much ability to explore until the end of the game. Or let you explore but don't have any sidequests until then. What XIII did was just remove the illusion openness

"...You don't actually know what "taken for granted" means, do you?"

Yes, I do. And that comment was uncalled-for.

• It generally refers to what's assumed, or expected. Such as if someone were to invite you out to lunch, it's generally assumed it's their treat, unless otherwise stated. Thus, it's taken for granted that they're paying.
• It can also mean to treat with complacency (i.e. taking someone/something for granted).

Neither of those have anything to do with being common.

"Some of the very earliest ones gave you the ability to slaughter yourself by accidentally going to the wrong part of the map, but that mostly stopped around the time of the SNES."

You could still do on the SNES with FF II, FF III, Secret of Mana, and Chrono Trigger. On the Gamecube, you could do it in Skies of Arcadia: Legends, in both the Golden Sun games on GBA, in Xenoblade on the Wii, and it's spiritual successor on Wii U also allows for it. And those aren't the only ones I can list, post-SNES.

"Most JRPGs donlt give you much ability to explore until the end of the game. Or let you explore but don't have any sidequest until then."

Most of the ones I mentioned prove otherwise. In Golden Sun, for example, you can visit Lunpa early. You'll probably die if you do, 'cuz the enemies in that area will be 20-25 levels higher than your party, but the game doesn't stop you from going there.

And Skies of Arcadia not only gives you freedom to explore, it encourages it with the sidequest to find all 88 of Arcadia's hidden discoveries. Which you can start right from the beginning of the game. Once you have the Little Jack (somewhere in the first 2-3 hours), you're free to go all over the Mid-Ocean region and you can venture into the beginning of the Nasr region. But again, you'll probably die trying it, since the enemies' level will be higher than your party's and they spam Eterni magic.

Yeah, Final Fantasy 13 isn't great. I can enjoy it for what it is, but it can't compare to other JRP Gs in a fair few ways.

I'll at least say that FFX was similar in that you follow a well-defined path through the game until you get the airship. But you can at least mix the party up. The way you jump between groups of people in 13, who you can't switch around when you are playing as them, is a bit stifling and the linearity of the game gets old.

Even if other games block the road until you do plot or put powerful enemies in late-game areas, even if the feeling of freedom is false because of the linear story you have to follow, they're still more free than this game by principle because they give you room to run around in. There's room to breathe. 13 has an area like that, but it's well over twenty hours into the game.

I don't have any sort of grudge against FFXIII, it is what it is and I don't mind playing it. But it's very stifling and restrictive for a JRPG. Even then, acknowledging that doesn't mean it's a bad game - there's no need to throw RP Gs under a bus to protect it.

There's a big difference between the linearity in FFX and the linearity in FFXIII and it makes the games feel dramatically different. I've been thinking about what the difference is (often in these comments sections), and I think I've finally come up with the big idea.

FFX almost always feels like a place, and FFXIII never does. There are lots and lots of reasons for this, small things from the number of NP Cs on the same path as you, the way they NPC talk to you and tell you some of the history of each place, the fact that each path has a definite goal at the end, and that goal won't be linear, it'll be a village or a city or a temple that you can walk all around and that feels alive.

It's the camera angle, where in FFX the camera shows you the landscape and how the path fits into that landscape, and normally from a side view so that you can't see it stretching out ahead. Whereas in FFXIII the camera angle is from slightly behind the player character, so most of your view is the character model and it's not angled well to let you see the landscape and path in context. Instead it focuses on the horizon and the path stretching out in front of you, which emphasis it's linearity and doesn't develop a sense of place.

In FFX the characters are making a journey, and the plot always reinforces that you're _going_ somewhere and part of the difficulty is that walking there is hard and arduous. It's why it's a pilgrimage. They always flash a little map up on screen even to show the journey you've made so far and what the next step is. In FFXIII, you're mostly going 'away' from somewhere, there's often no destination, and the locations you visit are seem randomly and not believably on the route to your goal.

Its the way they change the design and mapping of each place in FFX so that it feels unique. The Mi'hen Highway is a bright, straight, wide road. The Thunderplains are a plane, Malaca Forest is twisting and confusing and awkward to give you a feeling of getting lost in a forest.

And all that means that in FFX wherever you're walking has a sense of purpose (and they do other things to emphasise the feeling of the journey, like the health and save system). It feels less like a corridor, and more like a road. And it makes sense you can really only travel in a straight line, most roads are just straight lines. You always feel part of the world so you've always got something to take from it.

FFXIII tries to make you feel part of the world, but it fails almost entirely. I could barely name any level of FFXIII as a _place_ except for the big plains 20 hours in and the junkyard. And if it's not a place, it's a chore created by the designers.

(Note, I like FFXIII a lot, but it's not FFX to me and that's because FFXIII has some big flaws to overcome)

Miin U, that's the thing. Those are things I do not 'take for granted'. In fact, I appreciated the lack of 'towns' to 'explore'. Mostly because I find most towns in games to be pointless, unless it's like in Tales of Symphonia, where it has something sidequest heavy in it, like Luin or similar. Same with low amount of NPC Interaction. I don't care about NPCs.

As for Light, I recall Fang asking her if Light's tendency to punch people (which she did a total of 4 times, 3 of them against Snow early on) actually accomplishes anything. It's not flat out saying 'Stop hitting people' but it does make Light stop and, hell, Chapter 7 and her big scene with Hope is basically her realizing that her actions up to then were not helping and what it has done. (Alienating her sister, to the point that she feels guilty for having Sera turn into a crystal)

Tomwithnonumbers, that's another thing. I didn't go into this game expecting it to be like another Final Fantasy game. I took it for what it was, and what I got was quite good. I certainly required two attempts to make it past the introduction (I blame this on Snow, I personally cannot stand him), but I made it through the game and then felt like I rushed, so I played it a third time. And enjoyed it much more.

XIII is definitely reminiscent of X with some aspects, but not to the extent that I could honestly compare them and say one did this better than the other.

With your point of X, giving you the feeling of going somewhere with your journey, I would say that XIII did a good job at the opposite. The party has no concrete goal, so they are wandering around. I personally found it did a good job at showing their... helplessness for their situation. They have no clue what's going on, what they should do or can do and they are being threatened with Monster-ness if they don't do something. So even if their moving is goalless, the illusion of moving, to them, takes some of their tension away and makes it seem like they have something to do.

I need to stress like I like FFXIII, I've played through it a couple of times because I think the characters are strong and the combat is decent - but, whilst I agree it did feel like they were helpless and they got that across well - the helplessness went a little too far, because some of the plot is really them just trying any random thing in the hope that it will work. It can be quite hard to stay empathetic with them when they're doing very destructive things that don't really have much reason to succeed.

"As for Light, I recall Fang asking her if Light's tendency to punch people (which she did a total of 4 times, 3 of them against Snowe early on) actually accomplishes anything. It's not flat out saying 'Stop hitting people' but it does make her stop"

It's been awhile since I played XIII, but I vaguely recall that scene now that you mention it. Mainly because it came across as hypocritical, since Fang had decked Snowe (without provocation), too.

Still, it's a fair point about, since Fang did say something about it. But it would've been better coming from Snowe, since he was the one getting punched out.

Miin U, considering Snow suffered from the "I am off-screen for half the game"-syndrome, it would've lost a lot of its impact. Especially because, for one, he would've said something after Light already realized she did something wrong. He never said anything before, so we can conclude he either felt like he 'deserved' to get hit (for not protecting hsi fiancée better) or he knew on the inside that Light was simply venting her emotions and feeling of anger and helplessness in all the wrong ways, so didn't really hold it against her. (Same reason why I can't hate Hope in the Japanese version - his behavior just makes too much sense, so I don't hold it against him, either. Unlike the English version, where I want to punch him in Chapter 5)

Tomwithnonumbers, I can see what you mean. Akin to Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy. But I think that didn't happen, for me, until Chapter 9 and only because that chapter was really long and then was immediately succeeded by another really, really long chapter.