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Feb 7th 2011 at 6:37:54 AM •••

Several characters are switching sides between the 2 games - perhaps the Cosmos/Chaos/Other separation no longer makes much sense as far as the series is concerned, even if it made some sense for a single game?

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Apr 5th 2011 at 8:27:54 AM •••

I think it would be a better idea to keep the 22 characters from the first game where they are, and group the new characters (including Gilgamesh, Aerith and any possible DLC or Assist only characters.) on a seperate page. It's rather arbitrary that The new cosmos characters get their own page while Gilgy has to stay with the villains. On another note, what should we do about Feral Chaos, his moveset is rather different, as well as the addition of the quote for his exclusive item and weapon.

Oct 16th 2010 at 3:14:31 PM •••

Just curious too. Where did this info about Golbez's third outfit came from? Was there a new scan somewhere?

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Oct 15th 2010 at 4:54:22 PM •••

Just curious, where did the info on Tifa's EX Mode bonus come from?

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Oct 15th 2010 at 5:12:10 PM •••

Never got Tifa's ultimate weapon myself, but check this scan. You can see in two screenshot that she's got something new on her fists.

Oct 15th 2010 at 5:17:40 PM •••

I know that -_-. I asked where the info on her *EX Bonus* comes from.

Oct 16th 2010 at 4:11:26 AM •••

Maybe its in the scan itself? It says the same thing on the FF wiki so I assume they've got someone versed in Japanese to translate.

Oct 1st 2010 at 5:40:51 AM •••

Should Vaan really be there? All we have is a Twitter post and it doesn't even mention which game his voice actor is voicing him. Should we at least wait for some concrete information to put him there?

Edited by ZeroPotential Hide/Show Replies
Oct 1st 2010 at 8:27:34 AM •••

Well, I really don't mind it, but decided to just leave it there because it seems VERY likely so far that he'll be there. And in any case, it doesn't hurt to have it there even if we end up having to put him out because rumors were proven wrong.

But if you really feel like it, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to remove him for the time being either.

Sep 26th 2010 at 7:17:53 PM •••

Out of curiosity, why were the descriptions to the character pictures deleted? I didn't see anything too objectionable about any of them.

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Sep 26th 2010 at 8:48:43 PM •••

Beats me. It wasn't discussed or anything, just someone (I think anonymous) took them out. And apparently nobody cared about the lines enough to bring them back.

Sep 25th 2010 at 6:59:31 PM •••

"In Dissidia 012 Duodecim, Kuja apparently has been called to fight for Cosmos instead of Chaos."

Where does it say this? Where in the trailer? Point against: He's fighting Tidus in it, granted, it could be Quick Battle, but I'm still skeptical.

Edited by RitiTroll Hide/Show Replies
Sep 25th 2010 at 7:04:57 PM •••

I think that may be an overinterpretation of the fact that at one point, he's shown acting as one of Zidane's Assists. But we have no idea what plot context this is in, so, yeah, it's impossible to say for certain at this point.

Sep 25th 2010 at 7:10:07 PM •••

In the trailer Bartz remarks that Kuja is a Warrior of Cosmos when Kuja approaches him and Zidane. Cloud also speaks to him, and Kefka challenges him to battle and again calls him a Warrior of Cosmos.

Sep 25th 2010 at 11:49:27 PM •••

And in the prolonged trailer (The one that shows Tifa and Squeenix keeps taking down from You Tube as far as I've heard), there's one scene with Zidane, Kuja, Bartz and Squall and they are talking, but curiously enough no one is showing any intentions to fight.

Of course, we don't know how this will play on the long run, but this is what we know about it so far.

Sep 26th 2010 at 9:00:44 AM •••

Thanks Alex. I didn't know about the trailers until too late. Of course, I also am not too surprised (He did get the good Pyreflies when he died/left in his Shade Impulse scene. A kind of Redemption Equals Death, if you will?)

Sep 26th 2010 at 5:30:44 PM •••

We may have to add that trope to Kuja's part in the Characters article if it turns out to be right.

Sep 16th 2010 at 5:17:58 AM •••

When can we add Kain and Lightning to the Character Sheets?

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Sep 16th 2010 at 5:31:42 AM •••

I believe we should wait. All things considered, we don't know yet whenever we're gonna add everything about the new Dissidia to the so far known Dissidia Article (case in which, should have to be renamed Dissidia Series) or make a whole new article for it, and consequently make a new Character sheet. Not to mention, we don't even know if ALL characters from the original are gonna be present on the sequel, so more of the reason to wait and see what to do.

Sep 16th 2010 at 9:23:36 AM •••

Actually, I changed my mind. After seeing the new material, I'm sure we won't be making a new article. So let's work it out like this.

Either create a new folder for "New Characters", or two, "New Cosmos Warriors" and "New Chaos Warriors". Not sure, but considering Nomura originally wanted Kain as Cecil's foe in Dissidia, it sounds likely Kain might be fighting for Chaos.

Also, we may have to add Tifa to the list at any second now.

On another note, should we perhaps move Cosmos and Chaos to the "Others" character folder?

Sep 18th 2010 at 8:06:02 PM •••

Tifa and Vaan got their Voice Actors listed... why do you think Kain and Lightning aren't? I think it was pretty norm that old actors reprise... So why isn't Liam O Brien listed as Kain's eventual VA? (Forgot the exact name of Lightning's. Excuse me)

Sep 18th 2010 at 8:11:24 PM •••

Because we don't know yet. Look at the first Dissidia - Golby and Gabranth had different V As.

Aug 30th 2010 at 11:30:10 AM •••

Dissidia stating that Garland killed the summons of the FF 1 world is not invalid or inapplicable in any way. The game tells us now there *were* summons in the FF 1 world, but Garland killed them all prior to the events of that game. Its a bit of a retcon yes but its valid information.

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Sep 1st 2010 at 12:26:07 AM •••

Gonna have to agree with Drake here. It's part of the background added to Garland from Dissidia, even if it is a Retcon. It's worth enough noticing.

Just please let's stop the Edit War.

Sep 1st 2010 at 6:21:53 AM •••

Fine, if you want to accept stupidity as valid, go nuts.

Sep 1st 2010 at 8:24:28 AM •••

No matter how inane a retcon is, its still canonical if its been retconned in, since its the creators that declare what is canon. You can delete it from your personal canon, maybe put up Dis Continuity in Garland's bio to note that you ignore that fact, but we still need to note what the official canon is.

Sep 2nd 2010 at 7:31:54 PM •••

Technically, they aren't the creators, since none of Final Fantasy I's developers are employed by Squeenix anymore.

Edited by Cukeman
Sep 2nd 2010 at 9:51:13 PM •••

But the series still belongs to them and so they may do what they wish with it.

Sep 2nd 2010 at 11:25:57 PM •••

Are Dissidia canon and FFI canon even the same thing? I mean, I had just been thinking that trying to work Dissidia into the timelines of all the individual games makes about as much sense as trying to work Super Smash Bros. into the timelines of all the various Nintendo games. It's a giant crossover fighting game; the plot is an excuse by necessity. So I figured that while they were playing around with FFI canon, and taking significant liberties with it (for one, I got the impression that Chaos was very self-aware of his past as Garland in FFI, while Dissidia implies that he remembered nothing), it's really kind of AU altogether— not just to FFI, but to every other FF game as well.

Sep 3rd 2010 at 6:21:16 AM •••

Yeah, it's very vague in regards to its connection the other games. I read somewhere a theory that Dissidia is an AU telling of FF 1, with the heroes and the villains taking the roles of the Warriors of Light/Four Fiends, and Cosmos taking the role of Princess Sarah or something like that.

But overall you're right, it's hard to tell.

Edited by DrakeClawfang
Sep 3rd 2010 at 1:16:36 PM •••

...any idea of where I can find that theory? ^^U

Aug 25th 2010 at 4:44:52 PM •••

Hello, everyone. If you want, call me "M2" to save space.

I think that we could add a folder (or at least a subcategory) for the Summonstones, such as Shiva, Ifrit, and all the rest. Since the summons don't appear so much in the game (apart from Shinryu, who already has its own entry), we could just list the tropes and the summons that meet them. For effect examples, Bravery To One or Zero could fit Bomb (0 to the user, equal damage to opponent), Lich (opponent's to 0 after 20 seconds), Scarmiglione (opponent's to 0 after they summon), and Gilgamesh (user's to 1 if Excalipoor), and One-Hit Break could fit Odin (50-50 chance to Break opponent), Deathgaze (Breaks opponent if their Bravery is a multiple of 5), and Ultima Weapon (Breaks opponent after a period of time); for story interaction examples, we could list Shiva's flirting with Firion, Magic Pot's "Gimme Elixir!" quote from FFVII, Bartz's "Sweet Cosmos, it's a talking rock!" Shout-Out to the meeting with Sage Ghido in his original game, etc.

What do you think? I'm open to suggestions.

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Aug 25th 2010 at 10:41:27 PM •••

Wait... you want to catalog EACH Summonstone separatedly? I... really don't think that'd be a good idea. It'd take a LOT of space, with ridiculously small characters (if they can even be called that), and you'd get like... three tropes for each if you're lucky!

Only thing I can think of would be to make a section for ALL the Summonstones in the "Others", and address the summon stones to the tropes. Otherwise I think it's just crazy.

Aug 30th 2010 at 11:47:55 AM •••

Don't bother with any of them. Aside from Shinryu, none of them are characters.

You wouldn't put Harry's Cloak of Invisibility on the Harry Potter character listing, would you? Or Excalibur on one for King Arthur?

They're items. This is a character sheet.

Jul 15th 2010 at 10:16:55 AM •••

What the hell? Didn't we all decide before that we wanted to keep the fanart? Why is it all official art now?

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Jul 15th 2010 at 2:27:15 PM •••

Reaction on The Forum Was that alot of the fanart was terrible (some barely above MS Paint quality}, inconsistent, and alot of it consisted of injokes that barely made sense and did nothing to present the characters. Some of the Fanart was admitably good, but using the official art helps make the page look more consistent and like if it was made by a single person.

Jul 15th 2010 at 3:01:34 PM •••

The freaking HELL. Nobopdy here was announced and we are the ones who built this page. Forget about us being okay with that without even having been warned.

Jul 15th 2010 at 8:01:54 PM •••

Made a topic and crowner to discuss this here.

Jul 16th 2010 at 8:44:35 AM •••

I'm with Alexlayer. Even if the old fanart was bad, you oughta discuss it on the place where we've discussed exactly this before, and the people who, you know, cared enough to make the page decided exactly the opposite. Discuss it with us first.

Jul 16th 2010 at 10:31:30 AM •••

Well click the link and discuss it, you've not done it yet.

Jul 18th 2010 at 7:45:46 AM •••

Again, I made a topic to discuss the changes here. I even put a link on the main page with a Repair Shop Notification. I'm finding it weird that the page minders didn't want to be left out of the discussion, yet now they don't enter the topic to discuss it in.

Jul 19th 2010 at 10:25:21 AM •••

Sorry, forgot about this page for a bit. Honestly, I just don't hang out in the forums much at all (I think I might've made one post in there, like, ever). As I said before, my main complaint was that there was no notice of the discussion in here at all, where it was previously discussed. A post in here along the lines of, "Hey, we're thinking of changing the pictures, here's the topic" would've been enough.

Jul 19th 2010 at 4:54:31 PM •••

Well, there's a link to the topic. Voting has slowed down, but it's almost 3:1 in favor of official art.

Jul 22nd 2010 at 10:22:14 AM •••

Did the switch since the crowner is massively in favor of the official art. Can use better captions though.

Apr 13th 2010 at 3:59:16 PM •••

Felt like I had to mention... Teg, your edits were GREAT!! :D

Apr 5th 2010 at 5:37:46 PM •••

About the quotes.

I was thinking about the quotes added for each character right below their names. Most of them coming from right before the fight before their personal enemy, or from the introduction.

But while these aren't bad, I think I found something that would fit better. In the game, in order to get the final weapons for each character, you must get yourself certain items, which you get with 4 Mega-Elixirs or from the final colisseum. But my point is, those items, one for each playable character, come with certain lines, each of them meaning something about the character in question, and they feel really appropiate for this. To give some examples:

Firion: "You want to remain free... Like a rugged flower blooming in a parched landscape." Cecil: "Without darkness there can be no light... So how can darkness be truly evil?" Garland: "Beyond the cycle of death and rebirth, he may yet find the light as he faces his destined enemy." Gabranth: "Sometimes you must defend even those who are wrong. If that is your role..."

So, would someone mind me changing the quotes for these? If there's any objection, please voice it.

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Apr 7th 2010 at 1:32:07 PM •••

No objections from me. Sounds like a good idea.

Apr 7th 2010 at 9:47:44 PM •••

Okay, I'll be doing the second half later.

Apr 1st 2010 at 3:05:20 PM •••

It's Terra time. I pulled a few entries on Terra, on my favorite Terra topic - that Terra acting in character is Chickification.

That's not a designated victim. Many other characters are targeted or kidnapped. Trying to make it appear that Terra is alone in this simply seems to focus only on her gender. Let's not forget how much of Final Fantasy VI involved Terra needing others to help her in the first place. Plus, the entire "help" Cloud provided was her beating the hell out of him - and as can be seen in the game, she also "helped" him get through his own conflicts.

  • Character Derailment: Your Mileage May Vary, and her scaredy-cat nature is admittedly not too far off from her attitude early in her original game. However, the Mama Bear allowing herself to be protected by Onion Knight is a pretty big departure, unless you see Onion Knight as a sendup of Locke instead of the orphan kids from later in the game (he could be both, of course).

What derailment? Locke and an entire army of moogles had to rescue Terra after she tripped and fell down a hole at the start of FFVI. Her defining character traits are her emotional weakness combined with her incredible power level. She doesn't turn into a Mama Bear until near the end of the game, and she still needs several other people to prop her up so she can successfully pull that off.

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Apr 1st 2010 at 3:46:16 PM •••

I have to object on the Designated Victim one. Here's why: She's the ONLY one who needs to be rescued. During the story, Zidane, Bartz and Onion Knight get captured as well, but they break free on their own. It's only Terra who needs to have someone else coming up to save her. Similar in the intro, other characters got attacked as well, but that only shows they can take a hit and keep going, but Terra instead needs three guys to come and save her. I believe that the overall justifies the Designated Victim status.

Apr 1st 2010 at 7:37:43 PM •••

But that's not a designated victim - a designated victim should be constantly helpless and needing rescuing over and over and over. Terra gets out of some situations as well and also holds her own most of the time. If Terra were a Damsel in Distress that was constantly being held up by the villains, then this might count, but she isn't. Being the only person that needs a full-blown rescue doesn't qualify once in the game (nor in the opening where she's fine for most of it until she's overwhelmed).

Terra also gets out of situations on her own as well, though she sometimes needs help. That's still not a "victim".

Apr 1st 2010 at 8:34:10 PM •••

Tropes are NOT taken literaly more often than not! That's why there's the "subverted", "inverted", "invoked" or "to a point" versions pointed out every now and then. Check the list of examples in the Designated Victim article and you'll find more than one case where it isn't that the character's only role is to be kidnapped, but that such character IS the one kidnapped (or something similar) the most. That's what happens to Terra, and there's several examples to notice.

  • She needing to be saved from Emperor's trap in the opening.
  • Onion Knight having to rescue her from Cloud of Darkness.
  • Cloud needing to help her to calm down her powers.
  • Onion Knight needing to show up because apparently Cloud and Terra weren't enough to handle just the exact same number of opponents.

None of the other characters have ever needed that much help. And for the record, of WHAT situation does Terra get out of by herself that isn't just a fight? (which would be given for granted)

Apr 1st 2010 at 9:06:07 PM •••

I read the page and I don't see any tropes contradicting what I said. Tropes do need to be taken literally to qualify as examples or they just suffer Trope Decay. For what it's worth, subverted and "inverted" tropes get abused pretty bad too since its rare that they're actually notable.

I'd think holding her own in fights would be pretty important.

Needing help doesn't make her a victim.

We're going to have to include a lot of people on this trope if we include Terra, because "getting out themselves" doesn't change the part that many characters are either targetted specifically, need help, or get kidnapped.

More stuff:

  • Onion Knight needed Terra's help as much as she needed him since he wasn't actually a brave warrior, he was a kid.
  • Terra and Cloud help each other - Cloud isn't even trying to help and it's Terra that has to convince him that his actions mean something.
  • Terra defeats Kefka on her own more than once. In fact, Onion Knight has to help Cloud fight, while Terra takes on Kefka herself.

Terra also doesn't need to be "saved" in the opening. Looking at the video now, she's already holding her own with Ultimecia just fine (effortlessly in fact), but while distracted by Ultimecia, she blows up a trap set by the Emperor...which doesn't even hurt her. Since all the heroes and villains immediately assemble with each other in the next shot, she wasn't being "saved", she was simply being flanked. After that, everyone takes on the villains of their specific game alone. Suggesting Terra is a victim in the opening is stretching things pretty far when she clearly doesn't need any help and the only low point in the battle is simply the Emperor blowing something up around her and not even scratching her.

Apr 2nd 2010 at 3:48:28 PM •••

There's always a point to where a reasonable discussion can be held. That point has already been crossed, because you're just seeing things the way you want to.

  • Terra holding up her own fights is not "pretty important", because if she didn't, she couldn't be allowed to be a playable character in the game. That's what you call "basic standars"
  • When - for reason's sake - when does Onion Knight ever seems to need Terra? He's the one guiding her during the entire time they are together, always walking ahead, and even when Ex-Death showed up, he handled him by himself. At what point does Onion Knight ever need Terra's help?
  • Cloud was trying to help, he just wasn't sure if his actions would do any good. All that Terra does is convince him that he indeed helped her.
  • Onion Knight helps Cloud, right, doesn't change the fact he shows up telling Terra: "I told you I'd protect you".
  • And trying to pretend that Terra wasn't saved in the opening? That is stretching things pretty far.

But be my guest. I won't edit the article back just to have an edit war with you. You want to believe all this is wrong and your view is the only right one? Go right ahead for all I care.

Apr 4th 2010 at 2:12:45 PM •••

My apologies for a delay due to real life.

  • Terra being playable, holding her own in fights, and defeating other enemies proves she's not a regular victim. You can't ignore them just because she is playable during those moments. The way that trope works, it shouldn't matter if she's playable or not. Hell, the way that trope works, most of the characters in question are not main characters.
  • Onion Knight is also a coward and ashamed of it and needs Terra's help to prop himself up. We already know Terra has more than enough power most of the time. If Terra hadn't been with him at all, he would have likely gotten himself killed because he's a kid.
  • Cloud was not attempting to help at first - that's why he doesn't think he did anything. Terra was the one that had to tell him what he did in the first place. At this point Cloud is still being toyed with by Sephiroth and it's Terra that has to break him out of that.
  • Onion Knight saying anything does not make Terra a victim in a situation in which Terra take on one opponent by herself when Onion Knight needs a second person to help him do the same thing. He could have said "I have socks!" and it wouldn't make a lick of difference that these circumstances played out with him needing help that Terra did not.
  • What pretending, I loaded up the opening and kept looking for a scene where she needed help. Please point out to me where Terra is being saved in this video. The scene I described is the only thing I found related to what you said. The only difference between this video and the one in the PSP game is it's mirrored due to Youtube issues.

Mar 31st 2010 at 12:51:47 PM •••

Um, would everyone absultely despise me if I change the current character pictures to the official Nomura art? It's just that the art is really nice, it all matches and although the other pics are hilarious the art would give a proper idea of what the characters are actually like, you know?

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Mar 31st 2010 at 1:05:23 PM •••

I say keep the pics as they are. The Nomura art would certainly fit, but I think it'd be sorta boring. That, and it seems like a lot of work went into finding the pictures that're on there already (though it only took me about 10 minutes of googling to find the angry tree picture, admittedly).

Mar 31st 2010 at 1:08:14 PM •••

I really wouldn't like that. We made it a point to put pictures that do the work of resembling the character, while we can still make fun of the tropes. Just putting the official artworks - I believe - would be... well, dull.

I was even thinking of a couple new fanarts I could bring to the article.

Apr 1st 2010 at 1:43:25 PM •••

Yea, I would be very said if the fan art got replaced. It's very clever.

Apr 26th 2010 at 11:01:09 AM •••

I was even thinking of a couple new fanarts I could bring to the article.

Funny, me too... but mostly just from browsing Pixiv. What characters were found?

Also nth-ing the "Keep as is"

Edited by RitiTroll
May 1st 2010 at 1:03:58 PM •••

Someone seriously needs to find some picture of Golbez that showcases his massive shoulders though.

And seriously, what's going on in the Cosmos picture?

May 1st 2010 at 1:24:07 PM •••

The Cosmos picture, apparently she's beating Chaos in arm-wrestling right in front of Warrior of Light.

Maybe a bit funny on itself, but I don't think it matches any of the tropes listed about her, so I may change it if I find something more fitting (and more visually clear).

As regarding Golbez's shoulders... I'll keep that in mind if I find any. Haven't check Pixiv in a while...

Jun 1st 2010 at 1:32:23 AM •••

I was glad that my art work (patapon garland) was chosen to be added here but i was a little disappointed when no one actually let me know that it was here, and somebody from gamefaqs.com was actually the one who informed me. :(

I would almost always say yes to those who want to use my artwork since i dont usually put up formal copyrights to them but letting me know would have been great.

Now that it's here... Thanks for putting it up here. I appreciate it much. :)

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