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I commented on the discussion page, but while I don't necessarily disagree with them that the trope shouldn't cover transmasculine charactersnote , their language is at the very least uncomfortably close to transphobic arguments. If nothing else, it is a Single-Issue Wonk.
To repeat myself from the discussion page: Specifically, "then that open the floodgates says that's mpreg and fpreg are the same" sounds uncomfortably close to "I'm just saying that sex is real" tranphobic dogwhistles.
I also have to point out that the trope description saying that the trope is about "A cisgender male being pregnant" has been there since 2017, until it was deleted by the troper in question
, which is... odd in a lot of ways. So technically, removing their edits to the main page would, in fact, affirm that the trope precludes transmasculine characters.
I'm not very familiar with the dogwistles and transphobic lingo, so I can't comment on that. I will say that the troper in question definitely comes across as having a wonk, since they've been around for at least half a year and only edited this trope.
I will allow them one point though: the trope description doesn't actually mention transgender men anywhere. Suggestion: if everyone else in the discussion agreed that transmen are covered by this trope, let's add a line somewhere in the description that actually says it.
Edited by Andariel
The discussion about trans characters came up in another thread (I forgot which) and it seemed okay to mention it as some usage was already there and it, IMO, kept the emotional angle to me to make it tropeworthy. I wouldn't mind starting a proper discussion about it. This does seem like a heated wonk of theirs, though.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
^^ The description did have a few mentions, but any mentions of trans or cis characters in relation to this trope have been scrubbed by the troper in question.
Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, that's not kosher at all. I'm voting to restore it
Understood; I just feel like something about the trope description has to more explicitly address this and got concerned after some rather heated discussion. Should we add back the mention of trans or cis characters in relation to the trope or address it in some way? I just hope it helps clear up some of the issues we've been discussing.
they/she; editor of Minecraft SMPs
Just found this discussion and hopped onto the page myself. The description mentions trans people again, but it's a single "or transgender pregnancy" tacked onto the end of the "Has nothing to do with..." joke that was added by the troper being discussed. Personally, I'm voting to remove that and add back the original mentions of trans/cis characters.
It sounds as if the best option might be to restore the original trope description prior to these edits, then take it to TRS and/or Trope Description Improvement Drive if we think there are aspects that need changes or confirmation.
They also seem to be a Single-Issue Wonk since that's the only page they edited their entire time here so definitely message them at least.
Restored the original trope description (with slight edits to the current one). If this issue pops up again, we'll keep discussing it.
Has anyone reached out to that troper in question yet?
Edited by AquaEclipse they/she; editor of Minecraft SMPs
Update: After I restored the original trope description, the user in question added the "and transgender pregnancy" thing back again [1]. I'm afraid this is going to escalate into an edit war or something, even though I cited this ATT page in my original Edit Reason.
Oh, it already is one. (Not on your end, though)
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
^^ Huh they even got a fake edit reason to try claim legitimacy.
"I also have to point out that the trope description saying that the trope is about "A cisgender male being pregnant" has been there since 2017, until it was deleted by the troper in question, which is... odd in a lot of ways."
Oh its not really odd, transphobes often refuse to accept the word cis in any fashion too, to them there are no trans men and no cis men, only "normal" men and the not-men. So that easily falls in line with the rest of their edits.
Suspended jjlw16 for edit warring.
Update: I just found that the user's most recent edit on Mister Seahorse (while I was taking a nap) involves removing two examples related to transgender characters without reason. Outside of edit warring, this, again, seems concerning.
ETA: I reread the examples removed. I'm not sure whether those are misuses or not, but it still feels to me that an edit reason should be cited, maybe?
Edited by AquaEclipse they/she; editor of Minecraft SMPs
^ Personally I feel those removals are at best cases of "broken clock is right twice a day" due to their crusade to remove anything transgender related from the article.
Nandan's entry I wouldn't restore as its a ZCE and a cursory look at the Runescape wiki doesn't provide relevancy.
Birdo's case is questionable because she's female in all interpretations but transfem characters could involve same biological oddities as cisgender male characters buut should they even count for the trope, etc. I'd restore the entry on principle of anti-crusading but then reconsider it separately if the trope goes to TRS.
Edited by Adannor
^ Alrighty, restored
they/she; editor of Minecraft SMPs
Is there anything more we need to do here, or can the ATT now be resolved?
I think it can be resolved for now.
they/she; editor of Minecraft SMPs
I'm feeling extremely concerned about jjlw16. They've started a Discussion thread on Mister Seahorse [1]
arguing that transgender men being pregnant doesn't fall under the purview of the trope even after a mod (albeit speaking as another user) refuted their claim.
I eventually decided to tell them to go to the TRS to argue their case and make their own trope if they really insist on their claim, but when I checked their edit history
just to be sure (since I wasn't going to continue that debate after that), I noticed that all their edits are on that trope page alone and literally every single one of their edits is claiming that the trope has nothing to do with "transgender pregnancy" — which, considering they tried to edit it in eight times already, was likely reversed by another editor.
Their main argument claims that "trans men getting pregnant" is not the same as "men getting pregnant", which feels extremely transphobic and probably against some sort of site rule. (Their arguments reek of logical fallacies as well, but that's another story.) Permission to remove their edit from the main trope page and add a comment on-page addressing this?
Edited by AquaEclipse