Harry Potter And The Methods Of Rationality

... Harry is out of his depth. Only the Author Can Save Them Now...

I mean, SRSLY, this Voldie is on Hannibal Lecter level at least.

edited 16th Jun '10 5:23:45 PM by RawPower

"Yet I find that I cannot deny myself the pleasure of simply crushing you."

Crushing you.

How the hell did I miss that?

Because he's affably evil and seems to have Complexit Addiction so you'd expect him to crush her in a metaphorical sense, like what he was telling Harry Malfoy would do. Maybe Rita didn't work for Lucius but it was all a lie to make Harry not worry about her sudden Disappearance.

Quesion: Does a dead animagus turn back to human? In what state?

Didn't "Oh whoops I just accidentally fell two feet forward" seem unpalatably pathetic, though?

No. He's riding a zombie. Could totally have happened naturally. And it's even more chilling given how casually he killed her. No epicness. No Evil Gloating. Just a trip. Evilly Affable bastard.

I mean, SRSLY, this Voldie is on Hannibal Lecter level at least.

Much more so, because Eliezer is a great deal smarter than the people who wrote Hannibal Lecter (either book or movie incarnations,) and is thus capable of writing characters with more impressive reasoning which doesn't rely on reality bending over backwards for them.

^ You're really really scaring me now... Any other examles of genuis characters that weren't written by idiots?

I think Orson Scott Card shows both Bean Realizing that defensive wars in space would be stupid, and thus the point of the battle academy is offensive, and that because of the distances and sublight speeds involved, they had to start the invasion force immediately. and Ender The Enemy's Gate Is Down making some pretty decent feats of strategy, but he does so very sparingly. It'd be worth torrenting to find out if you'd like them at least.

Shikamaru doesn't do terribly either, but I think a lot of the reason you don't see him too often is because he is a very hard character to write.

If you want to see the gambits that might work though, it might be worth reading some strategy, tactics, and logistics, as well as military history. I haven't read much myself, but The Battle of Thermopylae would be a start.

edited 17th Jun '10 7:12:52 PM by Roman

I haven't read Ender's Game, so I can't comment on it. Shikamaru is surprisingly decent considering the work he's in, at least as far as I've read, but if you claim that a character has an IQ of "over 200," you've built up expectations to a point that's probably beyond any author's abilities to fulfill, forget about all the even more outrageous characters.

There are definitely authors who aren't idiots who've written genius characters, but when it comes to characters who're supposed to be staggeringly intelligent, written by authors capable of writing at that level... nobody else is coming to mind. Most of the authors who might be able to pull it off are probably too aware of the risks to try.

If you want to see the gambits that might work though, it might be worth reading some strategy, tactics, and logistics, as well as military history. I haven't read much myself, but The Battle of Thermopylae would be a start.

This is certainly better than pretending to genius in ignorance, but I think a lot of authors make the mistake of trying to write brilliant characters, and giving them plans that merely clever people with some education could come up with. It's very hard to realistically write a character even slightly more intelligent than yourself. To try and write for someone much more intelligent is absurd.

edited 17th Jun '10 8:28:26 PM by Desertopa

A few chapters late, but I'm disappointed with this topic for not pointing out the reference to the term Xanatos Gambit, and thus TV Tropes, in chapter 24. Maybe you were distracted by the more obvious Death Note reference. Well, strictly speaking it doesn't have to be a TV Tropes reference, but I'm pretty sure we're the ones who made Xanatos Gambit mean anything.

I thought he was more generally referring to Gargoyles (i.e., he was commenting on how implausible it was) rather than to the specific trope of Xanatos Gambits.

So, do we know of any other works where intelligent characters are actually pulling really good plans? I remember The Count Of Monte Cristo who pulled a huge Batman Gambit that spanned years.

Also, to be able to pull complex plans, a character need not be "educated". You can have illiterate dudes who can think twice as fast and as well as your cultured self.

I spotted the reference but didn't particularly feel like going "zOMG, Xanatos Gambit was referred to on the internet!!" Possible because the comment about how the characters were cleverer than the not-actually-clever characters written by not-actually-clever writer was then followed by a plan that involved using a magic spell and then pretending to trip.

Gotta work with the rules of your setting. Personally, I thought the brutal simplicity of that murder was particularly chilling. My stomach was actually revulsed. It's about how casula and anti-climactic it was. Stuff like this should be reserved for the Series Finale, not for an average sortie. Also, Potter is indirectly responsible for this death, and that was what made it worst.

So I don't know about smartness (although Yudkovsky tends to go too easily into Insufferable Genius territory, but at least he lampshades it), but I do know about Emotional Torque. This was edgy stuff.

He killed someone but he killed someone who had two lines and that I hated when I read the books a few years ago. There's only so bad a Magnificent Bastard Crowning Moment Of Awesome attempt can make you feel.

Involving Harry was the harsh part but I'm suffering from Darkness Induced Apathy or to be more accurate Author Filibuster Induced Apathy. If characters exist only to deconstruct or expel some view and their actual morality is inconsequential to these points then why would I care for the darkness or philanthropy in their actions? Quirrel could savagely rape Ginny Weasley in the Great Hall and all I can really ask of this is "Why did he do it out in the open?"

The three principle tropes of this work are The Chessmaster, Writer on Board and Deconstruction, it's enjoyable because of those and everything up till now has been focused on those. So I only really look at it in view of those. The best I can take from the potential "bad guy" (potential because at this point how am I meant to relate him in anyway to the book character?) is some kind of deconstruction of fiendish chessmaster plots in which case you've got yourself a Broken Aesop.

^ Why broken? His plan hat two very simple steps. Getting Harry in Mary's room with The Blue Beetle. Crushing the Beatle. Simple. Horrible,

And this Harry Potter is clearly philanthtopic and heroic in character, and his will to change the Magical World, uncover the truths that keep it down, and help Humanity reach its maximum potential are worthy of admiration. He just naïvely believes, as Lampshaded by Draco, that:

• Magnificent Bastardry is the best and fastest way (and the most satisfying to his ego).
• He's confident in his skills enough to not fear becoming a Xanatos Sucker or being Out-Gambitted. Which is precisely what Quirell is doing with him, as well as turning him into a Bastard Understudy for some reason he might reveal in teh end (my bet is that he has figured out Harry was a Horcrux and it was better protecting him and having thim as a faithful servant than trying to get back at him for what happened: while this Voldie has as much ego as in canon, he has a different set of priorities).

Bitches don't know about my new chapter.

^ YOU are YUDKOWSKY? I thought you were a singer?

wow! a Dresden Codak reference. Great chapter, pity about the twins, though. I wanted to know...

edited 26th Jun '10 4:34:41 PM by uximata

No, Raw. It's just a meme, you should really just relax.

I've been meaning to make an image macro about this for a while.

...and why the hell do you think I'm a singer?

^If I recall correctly, you said it a coupla months ago when I was at the bottom of Depression Valley and complained about never living up to my parents' expectations and wanting to kill myself. I could find that thread if you want. And, well, Yudkowsky is aware of us, and I suspect he might even lurk in these fora somehow.

^ AHAHAHAHA!!!!

(Professor Quirrell had remarked over their lunch that Harry really needed to conceal his state of mind  better than putting on a blank face when someone discussed a dangerous topic, and had explained about  one­level deceptions, two­level deceptions, and so on. So either Severus was in fact modeling Harry as  a one­level player, which made Severus himself two­level, and Harry's three­level move had been  successful; or Severus was a four­level player and wanted Harry to think the deception had been  successful. Harry, smiling, had asked Professor Quirrell what level he played at, and Professor Quirrell,  also smiling, had responded, One level higher than you.)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH

EDIT: GOD Harry ಠ_ಠ , you just DESTROYED SNAPE'S LIFE!

Props to Yudkowsky for being the first guy to play A God Am I in a sympathetic way that doesn't come off as either evil or Well-Intentioned Extremist.

edited 26th Jun '10 10:21:09 PM by RawPower

ok, this made me LOL.

Harry: "Every time someone cries out in prayer and I can't answer, I feel guilty about not being God."

Neville: "That doesn't sound good."

Harry: "I'm working on it."

Xcept Neville misunderstood the meaning of that last phrase.

Damm, Harry put in so many words what my ambition was since I was a small child...

no, that makes it even funnier.

If I recall correctly, you said it a coupla months ago when I was at the bottom of Depression Valley and complained about never living up to my parents' expectations and wanting to kill myself.

Huh. That seems like a wierd thing to mention, even if it was true.

I've mentioned a couple times in those angsty threads about getting better at stuff/ enjoying yourself/ being depressed about not being good at stuff that singing is something I do and enjoy, but I'm not very accomplished.

And, well, Yudkowsky is aware of us, and I suspect he might even lurk in these fora somehow.

For a while, I thought Norn was Yudkowsky. So don't feel too ridiculous.

^ So did I. Any reason he wouldn't be? And, well, I misread your statement as you being a pro. I sing a lot too. At every occasion. I used to be in a chorus, so I'm kinda decent. My sister is exasperated. But, yeah, if life seems jolly rotten, there's something you've forgotten, and that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing. When you're feeling in the dumps don't be silly chumps, just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing.

edited 26th Jun '10 11:56:03 PM by RawPower