Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Oh yeah cut Zannah too. Tbh I've seen her write up a few times and had a few doubts since it doesn't seem to describe much large scale carnage.

Just because it isn't elaborated on that Mustache trusted this person doesn't mean it isn't there. Being bitter about someone is a mitigating factor. C Ms just care about themself unless the bitterness is played as Yandere obsessiveness it is a valid sympathetic quality that I believe you are kind of glossing over.

That scene with the car is full of Black Comedy. The two get into a car with a man with a weird mustache who says he's a cop blatantly lying without showing any proof and hits the guy on his bike who the main characters call "Bicycle" and repeatedly hits him with the car even after it is made pretty explicit that he is dead with the punchline being "I don't think he's a cop".

The murder is pinned on the couple and the majority of the film is them getting into wacky antics to try to clear their name.

The nickname thing by itself isn't too concerning but combined with all the other issues, especially the tone of the film with it having dark comedy such as the grease and horse kicking torture than yeah....

Edited by username2527 on Jun 5th 2020 at 10:45:07 AM

Joker rewrite. Darth Bane and Darth Zannah. Tentative to "Moustache."

Cut Bane and his apprentice. Very weak yes to Mustache

Yes

Edited by papyru30 on Jun 5th 2020 at 12:16:31 PM

Seems there are just enough votes for the DIO quote. Do I submit to drafts?

Here's my write up for Caldwell.

Anton Caldwell, from Series 10’s “Held In Trust”, is a psychopathic sexual predator. Just days after his release from prison for sex offences, Caldwell hatches a plan with two local paedophiles to abduct and rape children in the area. Kidnapping a local boy called Bobby Palmer, Caldwell bludgeons one of his accomplices to death when they grow uneasy with the plan, before running him over multiple times with his own vehicle. Caldwell then abuses Palmer so severely that he dies. When he is arrested and interrogated, Caldwell threatens to find and rape DS Reid’s children. After being released from custody, Caldwell tries to forcibly abduct another child and boasts that he was going to teach the child what “real love” meant, causing an enraged Frost to punch him. Facing prison for the rest of his life, Caldwell attempts to blackmail Frost by threatening to tell his superiors about the assault, destroying Frost’s career if he doesn’t give him a lighter sentence. Openly proud of his depraved nature, Caldwell was considered by Frost to be one of the worst people he ever dealt with.

Edited by Atlantis1930 on Jun 5th 2020 at 7:51:50 PM

Mustache in my opinion

That is way too long.

For the past month, I've been playing my past Mortal Kombat games out of nostalgia and now, I'm proposing a cut for one of the candidates of the series. Specifically, I want to cut Havik from the Mortal Kombat X prequel comics.

Why?

To get one thing straight, I definitely do agree that he passes the heinousness standard of the franchise. He'd be a clear keeper if it wasn't for one potential problem: moral agency. In Deception's Konquest mode, it is mentioned that a god named Zaggot unleashed something called "the Tempest" that is responsible for the creation of the Chaosrealm, where Havik originates from. This event was responsible for the chaotic nature of the realm and it drove all of its inhabitants insane, including Havik. The spread of this insanity is even present in those who visit the Chaosrealm, such as Kira, who experienced amnesia. Therefore, it would seem that all Chaosrealmers are Always Chaotic Evil and thus Havik may lack moral agency.

Additionally, Havik's intent to spread chaos is not exclusive to him, as other Chaosrealmers express a similar desire to achieve that. For example, one Chaosrealmer gives Shujinko (the protagonist of the aforementioned Konquest mode) a side quest that orders you to incite a war between the Yangese and Yinsai tribes because these rivals recently made a truce and the Chaosrealmer wants you to end said truce to continue spreading chaos. Chaosrealmers have also been mentioned to support riots in the Orderrealm to spread chaos and have even been spotted in Earthrealm to stir up more trouble. While these acts are nowhere near as heinous as Havik's crimes, the fact still remains that all Chaosrealmers are naturally inclined to spread chaos and thus they all may lack moral agency. The only reason why Havik is even able to cause his larger scale crimes is because he now has access to Shinnok's amulet, which is established to be one of the most powerful artifacts in the Mortal Kombat canon. Therefore, the other Chaosrealmers haven't created as much chaos as Havik, not because they have standards or the like, but because they simply lack the means to do so.

There is also nothing that subverts the Always Chaotic Evil nature of the Chaosrealmers. Every single Chaosrealmer you meet shares the same mindset that "Chaos is good." They express delight when you assault them. Some revere and support death as the "ultimate chaos." The Chaosrealmers have even created Chaos Pendants that can convert any wearer to the way of chaos. This lack of subversion to the Always Chaotic Evil nature suggests that all Chaosrealmers, including Havik, are naturally inclined to be chaotic and thus may lack moral agency.

During the initial discussion of him (It's the third reply on the page. I do not know how to directly highlight the reply with the link, so I apologize for that), it's mentioned that said Always Chaotic Evil nature is not mitigating because they do have a structured religion. However, I do not believe that having some structure is enough to subvert Always Chaotic Evil. I may be wrong about this, but I believe that having structure and being Always Chaotic Evil is not mutually excluseive and thus I don't think that is enough to subvert that trope. Like I said before, all Chaosrealmers also have a natural incline to spread chaos, so Havik's nature is not exclusive to him and thus he is acting out in nature.

Verdict

With the fact that he is influenced by an outside event and his entire race is Always Chaotic Evil, I question Havik's candidacy since he lacks the moral agency needed to qualify. I may be wrong about this, but I want to start a discussion to settle this potential issue.

Edited by DrUnknown on Jun 5th 2020 at 11:27:54 AM

I'm fine cutting Havik there

Cut Havik. That sounds like too much .

Cut Havik.

Cut.

Atlantis, please add to the Drafts.

Right click on the date and time to link a post.

You make a compelling case, but I've never thought of Chaosrealmers (at least in the game; I've not read the comic) as Always Chaotic Evil so much as Chaotic Neutral.

Also, the Havik in the comics is a different continuity than Deception. Though whether that affects agency, I don't know.

Edited by ACW on Jun 5th 2020 at 2:30:40 PM

The Chaosrealmers do support death and assault, so they flip-flop between Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Evil. Quite befitting for their chaotic nature if you ask me.

Also, the comics and Deception are in the same continuity. Deception fits within the same timeline as the rebooted games and the events from the comics are occasionally referenced in Mortal Kombat 11, so it can be inferred that they are in the same continuity.

EDIT: Thank you for informing me how to link a post.

Edited by DrUnknown on Jun 5th 2020 at 11:38:45 AM

Hmm, that's a point. I can see the case for cutting.

As for the timeline stuff, according to the MK wiki (FWIW), there's MK-Armageddon, then the 2011 game through MK 11.

Edited by ACW on Jun 5th 2020 at 2:40:25 PM

Okay, something that makes me wonder, due to the nature of the fact that the timeline featured in MK9, X and 11 are a different one than those of the original games and the games and MK wiki even set them apart (like in character pages they separate original timeline and alternative one calling it current), is it kosher to treat original games and reboot as one singular timeline and reality?

Just something that makes me think about the nature of reboot and stuff and how we usually separate those in different universes (like Flashpoint for example).

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jun 5th 2020 at 9:42:34 PM

There in seperate eras, but both of them fit in the same continuous story. There is a canon explanation for the seperation of both timelines (Raiden sent a messge to his past self to change the future), connecting the two eras together and thus they would be in the same continuity. It's why Shang Tsung/Shao Kahn/Quan Chi/Shinnok have their crimes from both eras listed in the same entry.

Edited by DrUnknown on Jun 5th 2020 at 11:43:53 AM

There is canon explanation for Flashpoint event and the creation of New 52 universe too.

It's funny you mention that. I was just wondering if we should split up the entries. Though I'm not sure if that's necessary, since the Big 4 count in both timelines.

This is also true.

Edited by ACW on Jun 5th 2020 at 2:52:37 PM

I'd say the difference between Flashpoint and New 52 with the Mortal Kombat universe is that the former effectively 'reset' the universe and created a new reality in the DC universe. The Mortal Kombat universe's reboot only adds time travel to the mix, not 'reset' and 'reboot' the universe. Nearly the exact same events from the first three Mortal Kombat games occur in Mortal Kombat (2011) and Mortal Kombat X even has some of the same elements from Mortal Kombat 4, so the new events that happened are only the result of meddling with time instead of a full on cosmic 'reset.'

Edited by DrUnknown on Jun 5th 2020 at 11:54:29 AM

Abstain on Bane

cut Zannah and Havik

There are definitely changes, though..and it'sheavily implied Kronika has rebooted things over and over.

Do any of these changes. Mean the entire backstory of chaos worlders are changed though ?

The Chasorealmers haven't been directly seen since Deception and are only mentioned to still have their chaotic nature (i.e. Noob Saibot's ending in Mortal Kombat 2011), so it's presumed that nothing's changed.

Edited by DrUnknown on Jun 5th 2020 at 11:56:02 AM