During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
There appears to have been a performer named Manny, a man with an upside-down face, who worked for the circus. He appears to have been a pedophile or abductor who has screwed over many of the other performers to save his own hide.
I think what Fuller did was just Pragmatic Villainy as he probably wouldn't want his circus' reputation to be ruined. I highly doubt this excludes him from being a monster given that he is perfectly willing to do such horrible things to his employees. After all, many of his performers came to him as children so he is perfectly fine with child abuse and given how Normus "breeds" his freaks...
Edited by UltimateDemonBeast65 on Dec 12th 2019 at 2:05:06 AM
In that case? ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Fuller
I'll let someone more familiar with SCP comment.
Alright, now Normus' turn to be EP'd.
What's The Work?
Specifically tied to Herman Fuller's Circus of Disquieting
There is a bit of stuff to cover however, turns out the Tales are non-canon and it's the SC Ps and said character I need to worry about. However if you want to take a look yourself, click the link below. Also check on Herman Fuller's EP as well for details.
http://www.scp-wiki.net/herman-fuller-hub
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Richard C. Normus was Herman Fuller's taskmaster during his ownership of Herman Fuller's Circus of the Disquieting. Described as a full-blown sociopath, Normus was known for his ruthless and callous nature towards the performers.
Normus was raised by his father to carry on the family business, being a "Child Breaker". This involved abducting a child, beating them to near-death and waiting till they heal so they can repeat the process again, then reduced them to a broken mutilated and deformed shell of their former self and display them on stage for all to see, a child no longer psychologically human from the abuse and violence they suffered. To Normus, "Child Breaking" is a form of art, something he takes pride in.
Normus became known for being a "Clown Breeder" and was hired by Fuller originally to breed clowns for him. Normus does this through selective breeding, taking clowns with specific traits and forcing them to reproduce and have children with combined traits. He then repeats this process with the offspring, then sterilizes their offspring and sells them to clients. Normus currently takes the sperm of males and uses female eggs and creates test tube baby clowns because it is less of a hassle to deal with real clown mothers as they would resist and try and take back their babies.
Remind you that none of this was done with any of the clowns' consent and was forced. But to Normus, clowns aren't humans and are nothing but cattle to breed and sell. His notable victims include SCP-2912, the trio of clowns and SCP-3032 who Normus perform surgery on to make him stretchy and turned him into a “clown hunter” that would torture and beat up clowns that you try and run away.
Normus as Fuller's taskmaster would torture and abuse performers, even killing them if they did not perform well or disobeyed. It's also quite possible he was part of Fuller's plan to turn the performers into corpse puppets as part of their "retirement".
His fate is unknown.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
Zero redeeming factors. We're talking about a guy who was raised to believe beating and mutilating children until they're deformed broken freaks is a "work of art". Truly sociopathic, even for Fuller (Though he's still just as monstrous)
His role as a "Clown Breeder" is also extremely inhumane and horrific.
Heinousness
A full-blown sociopath who was taught to mutilate and beat children to transform them into freaks and now forcibly breeds clowns to create the perfect anomalous performers, treating them like cattle and slaves.
The way he speaks about his actions is very casual and has no regret or remorse in his actions, extremely uncaring and callous towards his victims and taking pride in his monstrous experiments and torture.
Final Verdict
As far as I'm concerned
Edited by UltimateDemonBeast65 on Dec 12th 2019 at 5:43:46 AM
Showtime!
to Fuller
Lizzid people!
I'll give a "yes" for Fuller as well.
to Herman Fuller and Richard C. Normus.
Showtime!
My problem with Normus is that, iirc, he's only in one document and it's played for Black Comedy, so idk how that affects him qualifying
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Goku Black
Uh ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Norman then. If that's like his only appearance also seems like dear old dad may overshadow him.
That was a Black Comedy story? I in no way found that at all funny. Plus he’s isn’t just in one document. He’s in the SCP-2912’s document as the man being interviewed. He’s the one responsible for breeding those three and it wasn’t at played for laughs.
And remember SCP-3036? He bred him to and did the surgery on him that made him stretchy.
I probably should have put these into his EP. Let me do that.
Edited by UltimateDemonBeast65 on Dec 12th 2019 at 5:44:30 AM
Showtime!
I won't lose any sleep if he goes up, but he doesn't work for me, esp when directly compared to Fuller. And yes, all information should have been included in the EP
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Fuller, but no to Normus.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
Fuller Normus
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
To bring back something brought up before. Should Albert Wesker entry be moved to the rest of the main games entries on Resident Evil instead of a separate header?
Edited by Bullman on Dec 12th 2019 at 9:40:24 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Based on the write ups, to Dallas and to Ewing as well. What nasty pieces of work. All three of them.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Since The Rise of Skywalker's YMMV is locked, I requested this be added as a commented-out note:
Discussion about Complete Monster entries will begin January 3, by Lightysnake and Scraggle, at the thread. Any added entries here that have not been approved by the thread, or any discussion before Lightysnake and/or Scraggle have weighed in, will result in a holler to the mods.
As a personal note, I'm usually not one to holler the mods, but I will show NO mercy with this. Anything besides "This movie was (great/awful}. Discussion will be interesting. PM me for more." will get an AUTOMATIC holler. CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
We don’t need “sequel trilogy? That makes Me angry!” Seriously we get it. It doesn’t need to be treated over and over
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Good point. I will not mention the ST from now on, since there is nothing productive to be had from me.
On a completely separate note, to Fuller House.
And on another note, Overlord_2018 has agreed to look over Kaifuku Jutsushi No Yarinaoshi. So that should be interesting. It does look like it might be one of those stories where everyone is so terrible that nobody stands out enough to qualify, but we shall see. Related to this, anyone thinking of EP-ing the protagonist for Magnificent Bastard, do not even bother as he is a rapist and we have a rule about throwing those out the window.
And once again, now that this semester is almost over and I have some free time, expect that Dogen EP soon. Cannot wait to finally give him the spot he deserves.
Edited by MasterN on Dec 12th 2019 at 8:56:11 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
to Fuller. to Normus.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Any opinions on my question above?
Edited by Bullman on Dec 12th 2019 at 12:10:39 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Gentle Laborer
Okay here we go. Let's start with a to Normus, now Fuller... It seems that most of his actions are based around abuse, and I want to know how severe they were. Because, frankly, abuse is nothing new to the SCP multiverse, even the Foundation is guilty of that, remember the D-Class, aka their own human cattle? And if that's not enough, just look up Procedure 110-Montauk, which is luckly a case of Depending on the Author. Aside from the Foundation, I'm sure that half of our keepers have done that but worse, Madison for example: She abused, tortured, mutilated and enslaved hundreds to trap them in a state of And I Must Scream where they would be forced to see themselves participating in killing sprees and assassinations, and evidence points towards not even children being safe from the experiments she conducted.
Elliot Emerson also did this to anomolous beings in the span of fifteen years, torturing and executing countless sentient creatures in horrible ways, even trying to kill a mentally-handicapped boy with the mind of a two-year-old. A Repulsive Ringmaster is... pretty tame when compared to them really. I've been reading his stories, and apparently, Fuller had a "declining mental stability" that made him The Paranoiac, and had good things to say about one of his performers, Sófia Bradigan, and when she ran away, he was devasted with such an "unparelled loss".
When he found Zoltan's philosopher stone, Fuller was "understandably reluctant" to use it and insisted that they test it first, he dissolved the stone into liquid and offered it to another performer to make him an immortal stuntman, and was "outraged" when the stone made the clowns eat him alive, deciding to punish Zoltan with the same stone and recruit him so he could "pay off his debt", but Zoltan really doesn't know if that was his "plan all along" or simply contingency. A minor Pet the Dog moment, but Fuller did cure Uriel's blindness and gave him a "perfect vision", even if it was anomolous in nature, personally assisting him so he wouldn't faint with the shock of being able to see again. Everything mentioned here is not part of "Tales", and should have been included in the EP itself.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Dec 12th 2019 at 6:02:12 PM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Switching to abstain on Fuller until Cross concerns are addressed.
Edited by Bullman on Dec 12th 2019 at 1:05:29 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Crap. Switching to on Normus and Fuller... for now.
Edited by MasterN on Dec 12th 2019 at 12:03:43 PM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
You say Fuller punished one of his freaks that he thought was abducting children? Any indication as to whether that's a mora standard or pragmatism?
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Dec 12th 2019 at 1:49:27 AM