During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Okay:
Yes, Carnage is dead, killed by Venom.
Malekith is killed and his soul condemned to an eternal torture, to see his past child self happy forever, the life he can never have.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That seems karmic 
Come to think of it, are there any iconic DC or Marvel villains (forget just CM's) who HAVE stayed dead in the main continuity?
Looks like Knull WILL return.
Edited by ACW on Dec 7th 2019 at 5:15:02 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Ouch.....
Did he do anything in war of the realms that should be added to his write up
Huh with Loki on a Heel–Face Turn and Surtur and Malkeith dead. Curious who will take over as the Thor Big Bad.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 7th 2019 at 2:16:49 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Thor's got a lot going on, even after that. I mean yeah, War of the Realms should probably be added to the writeup. Just patience on that front, friends.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I know Lighty's working on a Malekith expansion; I'm expecting it to take some time (man, the MCU version was pathetic).
And Mir, I know (eventually) you're working on the Post-Crisis Manta rewrite, right?
Edited by ACW on Dec 7th 2019 at 5:18:53 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
@acw: Loki died at the end of Siege. The one(s) that came afterwards where either alternate universe versions or reincarnations. So his original versions is very much dead.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 7th 2019 at 2:20:15 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Colonel William Stryker and the Scarlet King.
The Draftsman of Doom
Stryker and Scarlet King.
Okay, had a computer scare today that thankfully didn't boil to much. Getting to some more candidates... here's some writeups before then:
- Ciudad: Lieutenant Mora is the chief of police in the Wretched Hive of the title, a figure so abhorrently corrupt he exceeds the actual drug kingpin Gabriel Roche in awfulness. Lieutenant Mora kidnaps Gabriel's daughter Eva to hold her for ransom in his plan to corner the drug trade in Ciudad and bump Gabriel off as a rival, willingly throwing the streets of the city in a chaos in his pursuit of Eva when Tyler Rake rescues her. A gloating Serial Rapist on his off-time, Mora throws one of his child drug-runners off a building and nearly tosses another after him when he figures out they've been nicking money, before forcing the survivor to hack off two of his own fingers to pay for the other's crime.
- Birds of Prey: Si Fu Huang was a legendary, undefeated martial artist who in his old age feared his legacy would be tarnished. To eclipse this, Si Fu Huang raised twelve sons and brutally conditioned them from birth to be assassins named the Brothers of Silk, having them kill him to forever preserve his legacy. Si Fu Huang murdered every single baby that was born female or was unfit to his horrible conditions, even sparing no mercy to the wives that die in childbirth because of him.
- Dracula Lives: Elizabeth Bathory, from "This Blood is Mine!" was already a vile, vain noblewoman who kidnapped fair maidens from across the land to torture them for pleasure. When a peasant she's flogging to death bleeds on her, Bathory discovers her virginal blood contains healing properties, and so sets about capturing hundreds of maidens to torture them to death, bathing in their blood to refresh herself. When Dracula himself confronts her after he's depleted so much of his usual stock, Bathory tricks him into an alliance before sealing him in a coffin with garlic, intending to leave him there forever.
- Monster & Madman: Dr. John Moore, a seemingly-friendly scientist who takes the Frakensetein's Monster in to study, is actually Jack the Ripper. Moore gruesomely murders nine prostitutes across Whitechapel to use their dismembered bodies in his experiments while pretending to be the Monster's friend. Moore creates a "bride" for the Monster after figuring out the secret to undeath by sewing all the butchered women together, and the resulting abomination is forced to constantly relive the last moments of every single woman Moore slew to create her. When the Monster finally turns against him, Moore decides to kill them both with a sick smile on his face, even justifying himself the women were whores he was in his right to purge.
- The Doomspell: Dragwena is the wicked ruler of Ithrea, and one of the vilest Witches of all time. Banished to a black-and-white world she called Ithrea due to her propensity to raise up fanatical armies of child soldiers in the war of the Witches and Wizards, Dragwena promptly turned to stealing thousands of magically-latent children from Earth to trap them on Ithrea. Dragwena enslaves and torments the children in every way imaginable; distorting their ages, forcing most of them into the horrible wilds of Ithrea to gather food for her and wasting the lives of entire generations of children in grueling slavery to build her massive temple. Dragwena has slaughtered countless thousands of children through sadistic trials and torture in preparation to steal the magical "child-hope"—a young girl named Rachel—that will allow her to conquer Earth. Dragwena attempts to totally massacre rebellious children who call themselves the Sarren as everyone tangentially connected to them, tries to corrupt Rachel into a Witch who will enjoy killing children as much as she, and even when Rachel finally beats her, Dragwena homes in on her eight-year-old brother to snap his neck, vowing she won't die without killing one last child.
Edited by Scraggle on Dec 7th 2019 at 4:59:04 AM
David, Stryker & the Sundowner picture
keep All the Rest,
I'm sorry for what I said earlier about being iffy about troper works
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Scraggle, don't know if you saw my PM:
- Bathory's 616 it looks like?
- For Huang, do we wanna just create a Birds of Prey tree and have Huang right after Singh Manh Lee? Or give Huang his own entry? I lean towards the former myself.
- Dragwena's just from the first book?
Edited by ACW on Dec 7th 2019 at 7:01:51 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Bathory is 616. For Dragwena, she's in the first book, and appears briefly in the second only when she's expiring.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cool. I'll just use the first book's name.
EDIT: And scratch that. Since Lee also appears in another comic, I'm not sure how we wanna do it. Scraggle, this one's up to you.
Edited by ACW on Dec 7th 2019 at 7:07:23 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Put her series wide then or just mention both books.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Si Fu Huang appears in two separate volumes, not two separate series. Tag him at the very top of Birds of Prey if a tree needs to be made.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I won't bother with a tree.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'm Sad Frogerson.
I'm a bit torn on Stryker. While he does do enough terrible things to count, the game is supposed to be a prequel to X2: X-Men United, where it's stated that Stryker had a wife he loved before his son killed her.
I know, the official film take priority over the tie-in video game and there's the whole "different continuity" argument to be made, but it's still something that was on my mind when I watched a playthrough of the game years ago. I know his wife isn't mentioned at all either, so make of that what you will.
So, I guess count me an abstain. I just wanted to voice my two cents, that's all.
Oh, is it?
That does seem problematic to his inclusion...
All the Rest and Scarlet King
As for Stryker, how explicit is its canonocity?
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I would also like to know how explicitly in cannon the game is.
Edited by Bullman on Dec 7th 2019 at 9:48:10 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Typically we treat the video game adaptations as hard-line alternate continuities. If the wife isn't mentioned in the game itself, I don't think we have a problem.
If the game is explicitly supposed to be in-line with the sequel, or if X2 has a video game and includes Stryker's wife, chop him. But based on this, it's like speculating we'd have to cut 2017!IT on the basis the sequel could include ITs children (which it didn't).
Edited by Scraggle on Dec 7th 2019 at 9:18:17 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Good point I am going to keep my yes.
Scrags and I got a duo!
What's the work?
From DC comics...Wrath of the Spectre was a short little miniseries that revamped the Golden Age hero, the Spectre into the personification of god's wrath and vengeance. These...had inventive ways of getting past the comics code, with a formulaic approach of a crime, murders and the Spectre slaughtering the shit out of villains in horrific and inventive ways...hey, no major violence? Spectre turns them into a candle and burns them. Yeah, it was kinda awesome. From issue three? The mad scientisr.
who is the Scientist?
A nameless, insane scientist who plans to extort from the city, the scientist hires thugs to kidnap people, bringing the total to seven while also inventing a hypnosis machine...when he is done with his hirelings? He hypnotizes them and has them throw themselves into a tank of starving barracuda. But the prisoners? Are gonna be human bombs.
The human bomb scheme? he has the city extorted to give money to his brainwashed slaves...with several self destructed to kill many people and holding the city hostage with pure terror. Jim Corrigan, host of the Spectre is on the case, and tracks the scientist to his lair...whereupon the scientist orders all his remaining 'bombs' to detonate, as he was clearly planning to do anyways. But the Spectre disables the bombs because he's god's freaking wrath. The scientist tries to drop Corrigan to his alligator pit (?!?!) but....well, his hypnosis device is turned back on him...and he walks right to his own pit, falling to the rapacious alligators.
"Another weed plucked from the garden of life....by the Spectre!!
Hienousness?
Most villains of the comic are petty murderers with few victims. The Human Bomb and eaten alive stuff is unqiue for this, for a one-off villain from a comic more suited to EC than DC comics. I'd say pass for a quick horror anthology here.
Mitigating Qualities?
Nope.
conclusion?
I'd keep him.
Lizzid people!
Scientist.
@Overlord: Sure, that's fine with me.