During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to David
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Dr. David, aka Dr DAM that guy.
Heya, Ravok. Good to see you again.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Marquette
Goku Black
david
While I missed something....
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
David.
Also, no one minds if I add Starlink Battle for Atlas on my to do list right?
I thought sharks were my friends.
Since Elfen's gone for good, I'll take the reservation for Hazbin Hotel. I'll also take Helluva Boss while I'm at it. I doubt anyone will keep, but it's nice to be prepared.
Edited by DelphineTheDelphox on Dec 7th 2019 at 1:45:05 AM
RIP KissAnime.
Hey guys, I believe I found a new image, and it’s Sundowner from Metal Gear Rising: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/2/27/Screen_shot_2013-05-22_at_1.30.20_PM.png/revision/latest?cb=20130522043024
I thought sharks were my friends.
Do you have a better resolution? It's really blurry.
RIP KissAnime.
to Dr. David Alain Marquette.
Having talked this one over with you yeah to Marquette.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Blurry. Kinda. But it’s still clear enough. Plus, this is the best version I can find at the moment.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Dec 7th 2019 at 4:20:34 AM
You can take a caption of this moment from any of the walkthroughs on YouTube though.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Something like that. Yeah.
Abstaining on Marquette for the moment; sure, he's really smug in his POV chapter, but I'm not sure if he gets enough characterization if he has no defined motive. The Sundowner image is fine, though.
Also, here is a vote tally for All The Rest:
Keep(16): Papyru30, Lightysnake, GeorgieEnkoom, falcontalons, Kylotrope, Tyk5919, MasterN, SumDumNerd, PolarPhantom, AustinDR, Libraryseraph, Michealthehero21, VeryVileVillian, ImperialMajestyXO, CloisterTheStupid, KazuyaProta
Cut(9): 43110, SkyCat32, miraculous, KingofNightmares, Awesomekid42, FriedWarthog, nwotyzal, TheMadCr0w, Scraggle
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Added you to the tally.
Edited by falcontalons on Dec 7th 2019 at 8:53:28 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Actually, don't we use the same rule for cutting that we use for keeping? For such a close vote I think we keep.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Do we?
Wouldn't it be more fair to just check the original total and see if it's still five plus with the changes. We used to do that for characters like scar who'd run for awhile.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 7th 2019 at 5:21:42 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Well.
I was originally gonna stay out of this, since I had no horse in this race, having not read the story myself, but I was a little concerned with some points being made and with Lighty and Tyk speaking up, I gotta concur with them:
Keep All the Rest.
I've thought it over and it seems to me the only argument that holds water is that the story was born from a joke about an issue this thread had. But I ask this: If Ringmaster Jesus was written from a desire to get such an absurdly named character listed, would we reject him? God no. What if Preacher or Randy Newman's "That's how much I love Mankind" (that's the name of the song, right?) were written just to get a version of God listed, would we reject them? God - or, Satan no.
Perhaps the worst argument is that it's a hopeless tale of bad people doing bad things and people can't do anything against them. While I was on my break Maximum The Hormone's "F" was discussed and their take on Frieza was approved. This take on Frieza is even worse than in canon, appears to be completely unstoppable, seems to gain immortality and the whole song is an almost gleeful celebration of one Japanese media's most despicable monsters. Or how about that Randy Newman song, with its very clear atheist bias and its bitter critique of the idea that God Is Good? There is clearly no way of beating God or getting any sort of release from him; he will torment humanity forever with his sick joke. Or all the other songs we have about utterly despicable, all powerful dickwads? Or AM in the Original I Have No Mouth? Sure, he loses 4 of his playthings, but its a minor setback for him as he simply subjects Ted to one of Science Fiction's worst fates - and Ellison infamously wrote that in a night, and I'm suspecting Delphine put a similar effort into her story. And yes, there are points to most of these stories: Newman was critiquing Classical Theism, Ellison was telling a story about how someone might cope in such a hopeless world, but Delphine did want to write a good story that just so happened to have a wink and nod to the thread- or, rather, it started with said wink and nod and she decided to legitimise it. Hell, it probably has more "purpose" than the Frieza song.
My point is, the only reason, in my view, to downvote is the intention of getting a baddie with a silly name listed. My personal view? Maybe have this be the only one - let's not write someone called "Everyone I forgot" or "" any time soon. And if we do cut ATR because it's too short or is too hopeless? By my logic, we gotta rethink a lot of other, similar bad guys.
While a part of me is afraid I'll get into trouble for continuing this conversation, I felt I should put my own thoughts down rather than simply watch from the sidelines.
I thought sharks were my friends.
I would just like to honestly thank you for acknowledging the effort I put into creating an actual story, Polar. I appreciate it.
As I said, I don't mind whether All the Rest stays or goes, I just want this debate to reach a conclusion so we can move on.
RIP KissAnime.
Dr. David.
Lizzid people!
I'll say keep ATR as well tbh. It was made into an actual story with effort.
Showtime!
to David, keep ATR
After some thinking, I decided to keep my yes for All the Rest. Also, any more votes for the Sundowner pic?
