Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

In regards to Gold & Silver and Cindy, there are implied to have done many bad things but its Off Screen Villainy. While a comment is made about Gold & Silver being arrested for "some very perverted murders" it's never specified if they actually raped anyone and the statement is too vague to count.

Also what sets Snake apart is the fact that his crimes are not only worse than the others but also onscreen. Yes Cindy and Gold & Silver are implied to have killed a lot of people but we don't see them dropping many bodies onscreen. In addition, Snake is set apart for his brutality and sadisticness, a trait that the others lack.

Gold & Silver are violent, but they never actually kill anyone onscreen and have the escuse of insanity and trauma. Cindy has the excuse of calling a hit on a rival family because that's what the mafia does. Snake isn't just worse because he's more violent and his atrocities appear on screen, but because he has zero justifications for his actions.

He's fully lucid, sane (as much as a psychotic rapist can be) and in control of his actions and has nothing to gain from being as brutal as possible other than his own sadist enjoyment. I realize he hasn't done anything super extreme like blow up a planet but he's just a skilled soldier, nothing more. Considering he manage sto be worse than Dawson even without his vast wealth and resources I'd say he counts.

You keeping talking about excuses and standards but that has no bearing on the heinous standard and that's what I disagree with Snake meeting. My nay remains.

Skycat, please add Clay to the Drafts.

Done.

Furthermore, it appears that Elfen has not been responding to any messages. If he doesn't respond by the end of next weekend, I intend to look into Heinrich Kramer myself, assuming everyone is okay with that.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 3rd 2019 at 7:49:12 AM

43110: I can understand feeling like he hasn't achieved the same level of villainy as many other characters on the Complete Monster list have, but isn't one of the requirements that the villain be as evil as their resources allow? For a lowly soldier he manages to do quite a bit of harm, killing several named characters and permanently traumatizing another.

If he had more power like Dawson or Cindy I would agree that he isn't quite as bad as he could be, even though he's still worse than either of them. However, he doesn't have the opportunity to do much due to his lack of power and he still comes off as the worst person in the movie. Even as just a lowly soldier he holds nothing back, is completely amoral by both the standards of the movie and the real world and fits all of the criteria that other CM have.

Is there anything else I could tell you that may convince you to change your mind?

Yeah, if Elfen hasn't responded by then, I say go for it.

You know, I'm at the camp to give Snake the . If he's the only one with a on-screen confirmed rape, and it was presented in a horrific fashion, yeah. I get the work has a pretty heinous standard, but to be honest I feel considering Snake's status in the work and the sheer horrific levels of his crimes, I'm saying yes. He's probably one of those candidates that manage to punch above their level even with their lack of resources.

No, I've seen the movie... he kills some of Dawson's men to prove himself, rapes Laura and murders Golgo's associates and tries to kill Golgo himself. I'd disagree with writing Gold and Silver's crimes off wholly as Offscreen Villainy when I could swear I remember we at least see a flashback of them causing carnage. If you think he meets the standard that's fine but I do not.

So, third and final candidate so far from Waking The Dead. I’m going to give some episodes a rewatch though as there are two ones that are bugging me that are also potential candidates. I may enlist someone’s help for one of them because, quite frankly, the plot is confusing as hell.

Anyway, this guy is from the third series episode Breaking Glass. This candidate is a bit less straightforward than the other ones due to having a lower body count, but I believe he makes it.

Boyd and his team are approached by a therapist for a man named Jonathan Adams who claims that he and numerous other boys were raped at an orphanage by a mysterious figure called “Papa Doc”. He also believes that both his brother and his best friend committed suicide due to the abuse. Boyd and the team at first disbelieve the claims, as Jonathan disappears soon after making the allegations. However the truth proves, if anything, slightly worse than what Jonathan originally claimed.

Who is he?

“Papa Doc”, aka Oliver Gill.

What has he done?

Oliver Gill poses as a respectable children’s social worker but uses his position to sexually abuse boys under his care. After Dr Hugh Cullen opens up a children’s shelter with a more liberal view on “curing” problem boys who have lost their families, (I.E no corporal punishment, free activities and games etc.) as well as providing shelter to the physichally and mentally handicaped. Gill exploits his access to the building to rape and torture dozens of young boys including many disabled people repeatedly. Eventually however, he goes to far and ends up Jonathan’s brother and his best friend whilst abusing them. Although he didn’t intend to kill them, he couldn’t care less about the deaths, and to cover his tracks strings both of the bodies up in the boy’s dormitory in full view of everyone, where they are discovered by both Jonathan and one of the handicapped boys that Gill has raped. They are then threatened by Gill to keep quiet.

After rumours began to circulate about abuse at the home, Gill exploits the opportunity to frame somebody else knowing that nobody suspects him. He hounds the innocent Dr Cullen by stirring up a media campaign against him, suggesting that he knew about the abuse and did nothing, with the sole purpose of having him struck off the board and driving the man to alcoholism and suicidal depression.

However another social worker called Peter Murdoch began to raise questions about his conduct, and Gill realises that a further, more fatal coverup is required. To that end, he forges a “suicide note” falsely saying that Murdoch is in fact Papa Doc, and then kills him by throwing him in front of a train, thereby tarnishing the innocent man and his family with the stain of his own sexual crimes.

In the present day, Gill continues to lure young homeless boys and people he grooms on the internet using his alias of Papa Doc to his flat, where he films himself raping and torturing them. He is shown to have done this to hundreds of young homeless boys. When Jonathan Adams, determined to avenge his brothers death, at last tracks him down and points a gun at him, reminding him of all his crimes, Gill’s only response is to smirk and go: “What’s the matter Johnno? Can’t fill the hole in your soul?”

However, his arrogance doesn’t last long as he realises that Jonathan is entirely serious in his threats to kill him. He’s soon reduced to pathetically pleading for his life, but is saved when Boyd and his team arrive and successfully disarm Jonathan. Gill is then arrested for his role in the murder of Peter Murdoch. However, as he is lead away, Jonathan sees nothing left to live for with his vengeance thwarted and throws himself out of the window, killing himself on the pavement below. Gill is shown standing in the background smiling, revelling in the fact that his abuse has claimed a final victim.

Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse?

None. He’s just a vile sexual criminal only in it for his own sick sexual kicks and satisfaction. He all but revels in his crimes and isn’t portrayed as the victim of mental illness or anything like that. Just a heartless psychopath obsessed with torturing young boys and willing to murder or ruin anyone that gets in his way.

Heinous Standard?

We see first hand the trauma his prolific abuse has inflicted on his victims as well as the murders of both the boys he killed, and he is one of the most prolific sexual criminals the team deals with throughout the shows run with hundreds of victims to his name. Despite his lower body count compared to Radovan and Martin Barlow, I would argue that he stands on equal footing with both of them and is equally as psychotic. Resources are an important thing to remember here. Both Martin and Radovan are able to commit murders directly because they both know they have the means of getting away with it (Radovan by being a war criminal with the Serb’s on his side and Martin by having a crime lord father with the police in his pocket), however Gill has to maintain the appearance of a social worker and thus can’t simply kill with impunity. For me? He passes.

Conclusion?

With the exception of a low body count, I believe he passes. What do you guys think?

Edited by Atlantis1930 on Dec 3rd 2019 at 3:07:23 PM

Gill.

By the way, you can use the following to make your headings bold:

'''Heading'''

turns into

Heading.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 3rd 2019 at 8:07:54 AM

Gill (Reminds me off someone. Oh right Josh Freely being a creepy pedophile who uses being a social worker to obtain victims for himself. Btw Freely had maybe a dozen victims if I remember correctly making him the worst pedophile in the entire csi verse. Mind if I expand him to include it?)

snake

Edited by miraculous on Dec 3rd 2019 at 5:09:03 AM

43110: Alright, we can agree to disagree. I think I know the scene you're talking about, with the experiment in the jungle. There were deaths shown, but I don't think any were confirmed to be at the hands of Gold & Silver. (I think one of them might have been carrying a head or something. It was mentioned that they killed 2000 other mercenaries.) That whole sequence was pretty brutal.

Yes to Gill.

Yeah, that’s the one I was recalling. If the narration is talking about Gold and Silver and we see a figure holding someone’s head, I think it’s fair to assume who the narrative is implying is behind the crime.

Gill.

Mir, I'm fine with an expansion. You can do that when you write up the CSI dude.

Sure that said I have an MB post I want to do on CSI first.

Based on the EP, he sounds like he counts. Given 43 saying the rest of the characters are almost as bad though, I'll have to say to Snake, but very tentatively and reluctantly.

Still want to vote on a whole bunch I missed in the months I was gone, but still gonna hold off.

Bosley would also be the first for David Doyle and first for Bill Murray (technically though, he only became evil as Patrick Stewart).

In the case of Terminator: Dark Fate, should Skynet sending all the T-800s to kill John with Carl succeeding at it be added to Skynet's entry?

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Dec 3rd 2019 at 5:41:18 AM

Also for a few things I missed there I'll say yeah to Gill and @Polar, If you want to do another EP for Higgs, I would be 1000% receptive to it.

Gill

Leaning Snake

Same opinion as 43, Higgs honestly deserves a reevaluation.

Snake but to Papa Doc.

Yeah last time we sort of got a bit lost so maybe we should try this again.

to Papa Doc. Abstain on Snake.

Yeah I think Higgs could stand to be reevaluated.

Easy, easy yes to Gill.

Alright, here's the next vampire themed EP set...

What's the work?

Nosferatu is a Eurocomic written by Olivier Peru, with art by Stefano Martino. The plot starts simple enough...in India, two boys accidentally awaken an ancient vampire, Nosferatu, the progenitor of the vampire bloodlines, betrayed by his protege Lucius Vladek...the vampires are thrown for a loop with their lord's return, as are the vampire hunting organization Nimrod, who are initially content to let the vampires war among one another...things build up immensely in the present, with all sorts of crazy reveals (Jesus and Nosferatu are old buddies and Jesus was a vampire revolutionary who wiped out the original vampires and decided to try to liberate humanity....this gets weird).

Nosferatu? In the past, he used to advise Emperor Caligula, a bit character who is nonetheless the subject of the EP

Who is Caligula?

Decadent, tyrannical and evil, Caligula is the wicked lord of Rome, ruling with an insane iron fist. His adviser? Nosferatu himself who is disguised as a priest of Saturn and is using Caligula's court to get close enough to blood and feed as he desires. Caligula is also a notorious lech who hosts orgies on a regular basis...with the willing and unwilling. Caligula has a penchant for having women abducted and used for his own pleasures, or given to his men to be gang raped for his enjoyment and amusement.

This extends to the wives of other Romans. Caligula loves to have them debauched before by dirty individuals for his own pleasure. When Centurious Lucius Vladicus arrives, he's clearly not exactly on board with all this stuff, which gives Caligula reason to 'doubt his loyalty,' which is a one way ticket to horrible things...the one thing Vladicus prizes and loves above all else? His beautiful, virtuous wife Mucia, who Nosferatu is obsessed with. Nosferatu decides to get the hypotenuse out of the way and suggests to Caligula to get rid of Vladicus, who is taken and tortured at Caligula's orders while Nosferatu bleeds him to keep him weak...Mucia is taken by Caligula, and Nosferatu tries to sway her into becoming a vampire with him, but to his shock she is utterly loyal to her husband.

Unfortunately Caligula goes wildly off script and takes Mucia to be held with other women he abducts and uses for pleasure. When Nosferatu begs him to leave Mucia be, Caligula brags about raping her himself. When Nosferatu is growing more and more uneasy and visibly upset, even grabbing Caligula's arm to beg him to see some reason, Caligula repudiates him and sneers that "when you have seen her tears mingle with the seed of the filthiest cocks in Rome" his desire for her will be at an end.

We see Mucia being held with the other women Caligula has abducted and abused...a furious Nosferatu makes Vladicus an offer: become a vampire so they can fight through Caligula's guards and save Mucia together. Vladicus agrees and seemingly sacrifices himself for Nosferatu to rescue Mucia...but before they go? Nosferatu storms into Caligula's bedchambers, seizes him and kills him agonizingly as a result.

Heinousness?

Nosferatu is freaking dark. You have an ancient vampire civilization who regularly took human sacrifice, Nosferatu is a pitch-black anti-hero/villain protagonist who kills people without thinking twice and is responsible for rape by fraud in a moment of weakness with Mucia (making her think he was her husband)....Vladicus/Vladek is a remorseless killer himself...however, Nosferatu and Vladek each maintain standards and have loved ones (Nosferatu does truly care for Vladek and Mucia, has moral standards and dearly loves his half-human daughter). Caligula, though? We see he reins over Rome in a debauched fervor and is happy to slaughter and torture whoever speaks out against him...and the serial rape and gang rape we get a glimpse of? Is unique in the comic.

Mitigating Qualities?

Nothing.

Conclusion?

I'd say a yes.

Edited by Lightysnake on Dec 3rd 2019 at 6:33:05 AM

Yes to Caligula.