Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Damn. Four Apophis failures, and there's a manga where the snake may keep, and someone else has it? I gotta find something else.

Wait four.

Theres your, kane chronciles and librarians. Whose the fourth?

The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers. Apophis is more a force of nature there.

Might as well put Gods of Egypt on there while we're at it.

to Setne.

Sounds a pretty good villain, but Riordan does have a knack for making them memorable.

I agree its weird that the original Apophis counts but none of the adaptations do. Still I'm sure you're find one, one day Lighty.

to Setne.

Also, I wouldn't say none of the adaptations count. Surely somebody's written an Apophis just as vile as his mythological counterpart.

Credit where its due.

The fact that each of them fail to count on a different thing is impressive. GDV status, heinous standard problems, reddeming traits and agency.

I think there is a balance with writing compelling villains, a pure evil can be menacing, but can also be dull if done wrong, that's why giving them a sense of humor, using them for social commentary, having them contrast with the hero or a sympathetic villain, etc.

With a sympathetic villain, they can be very compelling, but they can lose their menace over time or it can become hard to maintain their motives over time (Magneto and Doom have flirted with becoming heroes for a long while now and the writets seem to have run out things to say with Mr. Freeze, which is why they tried to turn him into a lunatic in New 52.) You have to work hard to keep a sympathetic villain villainous over time.

I like both types of villains, sometimes having both types in a story is really.

What I hats is villains with no redeeming qualities, who have very generic motives and crimes, like the Wizard from Fantastic Four, who I think is one of the least compelling villains ever.

I just noticed this entry on The Umbrella Academy (2019), which I'm pretty sure wasn't authorised (and based on my recollection of the show, the character in question is more of a WIE who happens to lack empathy):
** There’s also Reginald Hargreeves, who purchases his children as though they were objects, then proceeds to torture, neglect, disregard, dehumanize, lie to, isolate, manipulate, brainwash, and degrade said children to weapons. He is the core reason for the main character’s predictably severe issues. This man’s son called him a monster, at the funeral. This man looked his son scared and tearful in a crypt and told him ‘Three more hours’. This man locked up one of his daughters and forced the other to be an accomplice in mind wiping her. This man sent the only child who would stand by him to live alone on the moon after his body was deformed for no reason. This man did not bother to name his children past the ranking of how useful they were to him. This man was faced with a little boy telling him how much he loved his academy and told the kid he wasn’t special, would live a life of disappointment, and humiliated him in front of a laughing crowd. And the kicked him off his property. This man never read Vanya’s awesome book. It’s kind of impressive.

Kifus and Setnes.

"which is why they tried to turn him into a lunatic in New 52."

Wait, really? That's as bad has how they tried to make Brainiac a WIE.

As for that Umbrella entry: Definitely not approved.

Also, sometimes villains with extremely simple motives can be extremely memorable. Judge Death: Pure Omnicidal Maniac, but damned if he isn't so GLEEFULLY over-the-top about it.

The Joker: Cause mayhem For the Evulz, but he's one of the most memorable villains of all time.

@ACW Well from what I heard on Freeze in the new 52. The twist There was that Nora wasn't his wife, rather he was insane and THOUGT She was. When in truth he was nuts and just obsessed with cold.

Frankly from what I'm reading I'm not sure why some say it was "less tragic" or made him pure evil. While it certainly is a downgrade story telling wise and not nearly as compelling, his story there still sounds pretty tragic.

And I wouldn't call Making him some maniac...QUITE as bad as making Braniac a WIE. as freeze did start out a fairly standard "Cold themed Supervillain" Before TAS made him the Tragic Villain we know and love. So removing those traits aren't necessarily a disgrace to the charachter as the Tragic version was Already a different take on him to begin with. Unlike Braniac who was always meant to be pure evil.

Also a good villain with Simple Motives is Felix from red vs blue. He likes killing and hurting people for money, Wich is about it. But he's a great villain cause of Miles lunas charismatic and funny yet terrifying performance of him and his high intelligence.

Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 22nd 2019 at 1:54:48 AM

Should I cut the entry?

I'd say yes you should and PM the troper. Reginald has...SOME redeeming qualities, is a (Very ruthless) WIE, and isn't really heinous enough. Especially with guys like Harold running around.

Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 22nd 2019 at 2:08:47 AM

Setne.

So, I'm not really sure if suggesting random works is kosher, but I was wondering if anyone has heard of Lisa Fiedler's The Mouseheart Trilogy, which has been described as "Warrior Cats meets Redwall", and from the looks of it, has a pretty nasty villain or two. While it's on my To-Do, recent news may have complicated me getting them.

Kylo: Well with Freeze, well its partially its that Batman is notorious (now) for insane villains with fixations, as such virtually all of them can be portrayed tragically in that light (even the Joker has been under some versions) so he no longer stood out from the crowd the way he did before.

Partially how unusually brutal they made him, about three panels into his introduction he breaks a doctor's neck then kills numerous other people on his route back to Nora, the reveal she's not really his wife and he's just an insane man with an obsession makes him look like a dangerous lunatic, over a tragic villain.

Plus its revealed this version killed his disable mother when he was about ten, by pushing her wheelchair into a frozen lake so he could watch her freeze.

I agree its not so bad as Freeze wasn't always tragic (though to be completely fair I personally thought the Adam West version, whilst campy everything else actually gave a not bad monologue for how much his affliction made him suffer), but it was that characterisation that elevated him from an unmemorable nobody to one of the most popular villains.

Aww understood.

@ Kylotrope, The problem is New 52 Mr. Freeze is he less relatable, Mr. Freeze's grudge against Boyle is relatable because he has a real reason to hate him. New 52 Mr. Freeze's grudge against Bruce Wayne makes no sense and is not relatable, he is dull.

Anyway I can see some villains being iconic as C Ms (most versions of Joker, Brainiac and Red Skull) or iconic sympathetic villains (Magneto, Doom, etc). I hate Utlimate Magneto because he was not a sympathetic villain.

Edited by Overlord on Apr 22nd 2019 at 2:15:56 AM

Done.

Hey guys, there’s an certain video game villain that i’m considering on Effort posting: Quinking from Ty the Tasmanian Tiger 3: Night of the Quinkan. Has he been discussed before, if not, i’ll gladly go for it, after all, I used to play the Ty games ALOT when I was younger.

Here is one of the E Ps I promised. I'm unsure on the other one, though, and I will elaborate later on.

What's the work?

Superman & Batman: Generations is an Elseworlds title composed of three different series. These series focus on Superman and Batman, as well as their descendants and other heroes, and they are unique in the sense that they show the characters aging over time, unlike most comic books.

My candidate is none other than the Ultra-Humanite.

Who is he? What does he do?

The Ultra-Humanite is first introduced in 1920, where he kidnaps a young Bruce Wayne in order to extort a ransom from Thomas Wayne. Superman(then known as Superboy) tries to save the day, but the Ultra-Humanite uses a machine that incapacitates him. Bruce escapes from confinement and poses as a superhero known as the Flying Fox to beat up the Humanite's henchmen. The Ultra-Humanite tries to incapacitate Superboy again, but Jonathan Kent shoots him with his shotgun, rendering him unable to walk.

In 1939, the Ultra-Humanite attacks the Metropolis World's Fair with a giant robot, intending to kill people until he gets $1 million. Superman stops the robot by crushing it up and throwing it into a river. The Ultra-Humanite then kidnaps Lois Lane while she is investigating the Hyperglobe(the Humanite's lair is underneath the Hyperglobe) and keeps her in his lair until Batman and Superman find it. The Ultra-Humanite reveals his lair is going to explode, blowing up Metropolis, and he tries to escape, but Superman throws the Hyperglobe at his rocket ship, blowing it up and seemingly killing the Ultra-Humanite. However, the Ultra-Humanite exchanged brains with Lex Luthor, as revealed later(in 1989).

In 1949, Ultra-Humanite(as Lex) kidnaps Lois Lane again along with the Joker as bait for Superman. However, Superman works with Batman and Robin to trick him into exposing the Gold Kryptonite he has stored in a safe, which Superman destroys with his heat vision. However, it is revealed that she was already exposed to the Gold Kryptonite, rendering her unborn son powerless.

In 1959, Ultra-Humanite confronts her son(Joel Kent) and manipulates him into believing that it was Superman, not him, who exposed him to the Kryptonite, which causes Joel Kent to resent his father and turn to the Humanite as a father figure.

In 1979, Joel Kent, with superpowers from a formula that the Humanite gave him, attacks Batman(Bruce Wayne Jr) and Supergirl's wedding. The Ultra-Humanite comes out of a disguise he was wearing and snaps a now-elderly Lois' neck in front of Superman, and teleports away before Superman can do anything else. Joel tracks down Supergirl and kills her. Unbeknownst to Joel until it is too late, the formula is fatal after a few hours, and as Joel is dying, the Ultra-Humanite gloats to Joel that he has always lied to him, unlike his real father. Superman flies off to find the Ultra-Humanite, but when he thinks he found him, the Ultra-Humanite turns out to be a mere hologram.

In 1989, Superman finally tracks down the Ultra-Humanite, who reveals that he had several people close to him, including Jimmy Olsen and the mayor, murdered, much to Superman's outrage. The Humanite also reveals that he has stripped Superman of his powers using Gold Kryptonite around his wrists, and then reveals he plans to swap bodies with Superman so that he can gain Superman's powers using a new formula. However, before the process can be completed, Superman flips a scrap of metal into his hand and throws it at the Humanite, electrocuting him to death. Unfortunately, the Humanite has one last trick up his sleeve: he secretly had a computer that would record the entire encounter, but when the Humanite died, the computer would erase everything but the moment of his death, making it look like Superman killed the Ultra-Humanite in cold blood. The recording is then sent to the rest of the world.

Heinous standard?

This is tricky. Lex Luthor(brain in a jar) causes the apocalpyse with an EMP, killing tons of people, Darkseid(who was previously brought up as a potential candidate) tries to wipe out the human race, and Brainiac tries to destroy every planet across the galaxy. However, I think the Humanite might just make it due to his personal cruelty(killing Superman's friends and family) along with his huge attempted bodycount. I know that resources stop mattering at a certain point, so it may not be enough.

Mitigating factors? Freudian excuse?

None. His desire for Superman's powers isn't played for sympathy at all.

Conclusion?

I would give him a weak yes, but you may think differently. And before anyone asks, I'm not sure if Brainiac is worth effortposting. He only has a few lines of dialogue and only appears in two panels, but if you think he's worth the effort, I will do the post. Also, I see he was proposed before, but I added some extra information that may make it easier to vote yes.

Hey, so I know this is a little late, but I recently found out that Slender: The Arrival is actually the sequel to Slender: The Eight Pages (the protagonist of that first game is Kate, and when she "dies" at the end, it is actually her transformation into the Chaser). On that note, would it be more appropriate to change the entry to the Slender series, as he appeared in more than one game? It's a minor detail I guess but I just thought I should bring it up.

Sure to Setne and the above candidate (For now)

@Lightysnake And damn man! It's a huge dedication you have there regarding Apophis.

Also, in case anyone was wondering, this is Brainiac's dialogue:

"Foolish humans! Do you truly believe my plans can be undone by your pathetic organic brains? Nothing can stop my annihiliation of the planet Earth! And in a few moments, when my Mecha-Morphosis is completed, I shall be ready to carry a similar fate to every inhabited world in the galaxy!"

I don't think it's enough characterization to qualify.

The Ultra-Humanite. We had a slow day without EP's, let's not overlook them.

Weak yes to Ultra-Humanite, if only for the personal crimes.

That was the reason I ended up not EPing Darkseid; Luthor is almost as bad (hell, I'm wondering if HE deserves an effortpost).